Damn...It's twisted...

[Anonymous]

Hey but, I still would of never thought when I went in there and saw all the people skitzing out flopping around. :eek: ..and all this to say hi and welcome to me. WOW! All these people wanted to talk to me....for once I was getting all the attention that I so much craved and deserved......the love I felt was almost mollesting. Many months of nothing but bliss! Straight did not kill me though. I am sober now. Being sandwiched between to women sexually at one time makes me wonder why I wasted so much time looking to get high or drunk. LOL

[Anonymous]

Are we all "washed" or are you just in denial? You know nothing about someone else to make a general statement like that. When I read some of things that were posted....yes I felt bad for some of those people and I also read things that I simply didn't believe. I witnessed accusations made by someone that I was in with the entire time that they were there and they were just bluntly lying about a ton of stuff and it was on national TV. I am sure there was abuse through the years, especially the early years of Straight but, I also realize how fucked up some can be when their lives are trashed for whatever reason and things just seem to suck for them, so they tend to blame anything and everything else for their own choices. My point is this, Aaron and the other person(headgames) both said what they didn't like about Straight but, they also founs some sort of positive out of it and I certainly didn't read them as still being brain washed. And they both claimed to still be sober.
Dave

[Antigen]

I think the topic of sobriety will probably always be a rather touchy issue for a lot of us. It was just such a pervasive part of the Straight lingo. It's like the alternate definition of the word honesty.

Till the end of time, my mother will believe that I chose pot over my family when given THE ultimatum. This was after 10 years as a Seed sibling, 2 years in Straight and a couple of hours in the intake room at LIFE. This, she'll blithely tell uncomfortable strangers on the street is hard evidence of the mighty awsom power of the marijuana addiction.

The truth is just a little more complex than that and not to my mother's liking. So when you ask "Are you sober", knowing that you spent some time speaking the same lingo in the same context I did, it carries a different definition than the usual.

I don't abstain from mind altering drugs asif a mere taste is certain death for me. It's not. I never had a drug problem to begin with and have failed, so far, to develop one, except for tobacco.

Am I sober?

1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk
2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor
3 : UNHURRIED, CALM
4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness
5 : subdued in tone or color
6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
synonym see SERIOUS

Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm' target='_new'>Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

[Anonymous]

To answer your question......I can't answer it! I don't know if you have a problem or not, only you know that. I have a problem and that is very clear and blunt to me. I didn't begin to learn about true recovery until I left Straight and walked into AA. I certainly do not have ill feelings towards you or anyone else that drinks or smokes weed or whatever. If you or anyone is  able to do that stuff with out negative results...my hats off to ya.I have friends that party and I am friends with them. I just got a little fired at what "1985" said in their last posting. I don't like when people speak for an entire group or telling me how I feel or think.I feel that the only thing I have control over in my life is the decisions that I make. Every decision has an action and every action has a result some good, some bad. This was not "taught " in Straight, AA or anything else that I was or am involved with. I am also not saying this is how anyone else should think...what do I know....I know nothing about anyone else nor would I just tell someone what they should do. I seriously wish everyone in this forum well and to the people that still are very unhappy in their lives, I hope they find what makes them happy. It seems like people are either for Straight or against it and then there are people that went through it with likes and dislikes but, still moved on in their life some positive, some negative (meaning destructive to themselves somehow w/ drugs or with out). I respect and accept everyones oppinion about Straight. I am not a spokes person for the place and matter of fact, I really have very little support for the place or the places like it. Main reason is because I don't feel like staff members were  qualified to decide and treat the kids the way they best felt hard core or not.

[Froderik]

I just got a little fired at what "1985" said in their last posting. I don't like when people speak for an entire group or telling me how I feel or think.I feel that the only thing I have control over in my life is the decisions that I make. Every decision has an action and every action has a result some good, some bad.

I don't know that he or she was trying tell you what to think, necessarily. That was just their take. And I see where you're coming from. You started off with some legitimate questions about peoples' different takes on the program. Nothing wrong with that...it's not always as black-and-white as "the program sucked 100% period." For some that's the case, but that doesn't mean that I have to say that I never had one moment there that I didn't hate from the pit of my heart either...

And you're right about what you said concerning the staff. They weren't qualified, and some of them went way too far in the name of treatment. But even deeper than that, the whole idea of forcing an ideology down someone's throat is bound to go wrong somewhere along the line.

[jnloar]

I can only speak for myself and one person I have stayed in touch with from our time at Straight, Dallas.  We both were on staff. I was a Jr II when I left and my friend a Jr I.  You will not hear a good word, thought or idea endorsed by either of us about Straight.  I commenced in 88 and was around until 90.  My friend commenced in 89 and left staff a few months later in 90.  I was 15 when I came in for eval - also a rape and incest victim at that time although today I am proud and speak to others as a survivor.  I had maybe 8-10 drinking stories and tried pot 1x.  I was a nutcase but not becuase of drugs - my friend was opposite - will claim that he was one who could have benefitted from a theraputic drug rehab as he had done just about everything but herion.  We both witnessed physical abuse but the main thing Straight did at every program, the true evil at Straight was the mental and pyschological abuse.  You were locked in and could either comply and admit you were a druggie/addict or be on first phase which was a humiliating phase with absolutely no respect for anything human.  I finally gave in at day 52 - can remember it exactly even today.  Started making my FOS list by taking the stories I had heard in group and piecing things together - I actually wrote them down as soon as I got to second phase and kept them stuffed in my MI spiral so I would not screw them up.  By about 4th phase I absolutely believed them and you could not have ever convinced me different.  12-9-2003 will be 14 years and after many,many years of therapy I still do not have a good thing to say about that place.  I have not talked to or met anyone who can say that they have nothing negative to say or did not see things that were not abusive and just plain wrong.  my biggest issue once I finally understood what had happened to me was the shame, guilt, fear, sadness and regret that I had inflicted this kind of soul stripping on many other kids.  I still struggle with that, even understanding the way that brainwashing works and that the only way to perpetuate a system is to only allow people who have been beat down to succumb to the beliefs to be the leaders.  still want to puke when I think about it.  So to anon, this is a former staff member who can tell you that I was not a misbehavior - obviously and even today, as a successful woman who has overcome many obstacles that by far the most difficult has been Straight.  I have said to some close to me that I would do the rape and molestion over before I would ever do Straight and that is one of the strongest statements I know to make someone understand just how horrific I found that place to be. It seems to me, 1985 that you must be in the, perhaps 1% who does not feel that they suffered long term negative effects from Straight - I don't know you - but my hope is that is true while my guess is that that is a coping mechanism to not remember what really went on in those blue chairs.  
-Jennifer

[Aaron3]

Those who read my messages and think that I have positive things to say about straight are WAY off.  I couldn't even graduate from that program and I went there on my own!  The mind games and terror tactics that they used on me were too much to bear and I withdrew before I really went crazy. It took me 4 years to be able to put my head on the pillow at night with out angrily playing the the tapes of that place over and over in my mind. AND understand this.  I have been a sober, active member of AA ever since (14 years) and it still affects me in subtle ways.  (SOBER means not drinking ONLY IF YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC LIKE ME!!!  Otherwise all Websters definitions apply to you just finewhether you drink alcohol or not!!! In order for ME to be described as sober by dictionary standards is for me NOT to drink at all!!!)  Anyway, I digress there!
I think I still have a distant fear of sucess and failure as well as a fear of other people as aresult of that place.  I was taught how to strip a person down and I was taught that everyone is lying about something.  How well do you think my relationships have gone living with those type of beliefs???   ALL I have been saying is that I refuse to stay negative and to let anything RULE my life.  All the fears I mentioned I have made tremendous progress with and My life is finally really really good.  Actually beyond my wildest dreams.  BUT IT TOOKS ASS LOADS OF PAIN AND PERSERVERANCE AND GOD'S GRACE TO GET ME HERE! THE ONLY POSITIVE THINGS STRAIGHT DID FOR ME ARE THESE:
1) Got me away from drugs and alcohol for an extended period of time.
2) Told me to go to AA when I got out.
3) Taught me how to tell the truth (and this one had serious consequences because I did out in the world what we did in straight which was tell everybody everything.....NOt good to do in the real world I assure you)
4) Introduced me to my best friend
5) Gave me time to actually find a power greater than myself that had nothing to do wiht straight

Does it really sound like I like the Place??

[Carmel]

Sorry to rub you wrong Dave, but I very specifically stated I wasnt speaking for anyone else at all...its just my take on it, its what I process in my own mind when I think about it.  Of course I dont know much about the other people here...I do know how I feel about the issue though and how it pertains to me, and thats all I was putting out there.

I dont deny that people lie or get carried away or whatever about what happened to them in Straight....but we really do have to "open our minds" and realize that even if there are a few good eggs in the program basket....there are hundreds upon hundreds of bad ones.  That says something about Straight, whether we think it was a good place or not.  I was not a misbehavor, in fact I tried to be 100% honest as much as possible, if there was something I was doing wrong, beleive me, I didnt know it.  But staff was always willing to tell me what it was, and coerce me into admitting to several other things while they were at it.  Therein lies the problem see.  Getting sober and getting help is admirable....but Straights version was very twisted and very wrong.  

I wasnt a crack or cocaine or PCP user when i went into the program, couldnt even imagine where I would have gotten those drugs even if I wanted to be....but you betchyer bottom dollar I was ALL of those things by second phase, and I beleived it too.  I knew someone who knew someone who had snorted coke, and I justified that I may have been in the room when they were dong it and got some second hand dust or something.  That sort of abuse is different from being thrown on the floor and sat on, but its no less dangerous and wrong.

[Carmel]

J-
I agree with you 100%, I was in Dallas probably right after you left.  From 90-91 give or take.  I did many of the same things you did, made things up in order to progress....in there you would go nowhere fast if you didnt.

Welcome!

[Aaron3]

That sort of abuse is different from being thrown on the floor and sat on, but its no less dangerous and wrong.


NO DOUBT

[ClayL]

I couldn't agree more with your opinion, Jennifer. I was a Jr. II in ATL and was fired for calling the program a bunch of Neo-Nazis. I can tell you this didn't go over to well. The biggest problem I have with the straight methodology is the indivdual was not responsible for the determination they have an addiction issue. The client was bluntly told they had a drug problem and were then beaten over the head, in some cases physically, until the client also believed they had a drug problem.

Jennifer is also right that the abuse was planned at the highest levels. We had a list of people who were not to be allowed to talk in group no matter what. Considering that most of what a first phaser "earned" was based on their participation in group, you can see where this lead. By the time the client was allowed to talk again, they were beaten shells of their former selves. This being just one example. First phase was geared to destroy ones self esteem through abject humiliation, to remove any support base the client might have and to replace all this with an unwholesome reliance on the "group" and its whims.

Also like Jennifer, I have spent many years in therapy getting to the point where I could be productive in society once again. Straight was and continues to be the most painful and damaging period in my life and I been through some shit like most everyone else here. It has hampered and colored all my relationships and career with the left over baggage simply paralyzing at times.

-CL

[Aaron3]

Those who read my messages and think that I have positive things to say about straight are WAY off. I couldn't even graduate from that program and I went there on my own! The mind games and terror tactics that they used on me were too much to bear and I withdrew before I really went crazy. It took me 4 years to be able to put my head on the pillow at night with out angrily playing the the tapes of that place over and over in my mind. AND understand this. I have been a sober, active member of AA ever since (14 years) and it still affects me in subtle ways. (SOBER means not drinking ONLY IF YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC LIKE ME!!! Otherwise all Websters definitions apply to you just finewhether you drink alcohol or not!!! In order for ME to be described as sober by dictionary standards is for me NOT to drink at all!!!) Anyway, I digress there!
I think I still have a distant fear of sucess and failure as well as a fear of other people as aresult of that place. I was taught how to strip a person down and I was taught that everyone is lying about something. How well do you think my relationships have gone living with those type of beliefs??? ALL I have been saying is that I refuse to stay negative and to let anything RULE my life. All the fears I mentioned I have made tremendous progress with and My life is finally really really good. Actually beyond my wildest dreams. BUT IT TOOKS ASS LOADS OF PAIN AND PERSERVERANCE AND GOD'S GRACE TO GET ME HERE! THE ONLY POSITIVE THINGS STRAIGHT DID FOR ME ARE THESE:
1) Got me away from drugs and alcohol for an extended period of time.
2) Told me to go to AA when I got out.
3) Taught me how to tell the truth (and this one had serious consequences because I did out in the world what we did in straight which was tell everybody everything.....NOt good to do in the real world I assure you)
4) Introduced me to my best friend
5) Gave me time to actually find a power greater than myself that had nothing to do wiht straight

Does it really sound like I like the Place??

[Antigen]

Hey Aaron, I get ya'.

If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

[Scott D]

A few years ago I went to a concert and was close by to Springfield. I found the old Straight building (which is now a plumbing or lighting store). Anyhow, I got out of the car and went around back to the parking lot where the phasers were dropped off and picked up. It was now very overgrown with weeds and looked a lot different but, I just stood there and instantly had about 300 flash backs of when I was there....it was very eerie....I just stood there and started to cry, I could do nothing else but, cry! The emotions that I felt were just a flood. I miss people from there and I also feel guilt and regret for how I treated some people. I know then that I thought I was doing the right thing by freaking out on people that I thought was full of shit and I thought that these people would die if we weren't like this to them. I mean this is what was taught to us. People were like that to me when I was new and even when I was honest later on higher phases. Jesus, that place was no walk in the park and I still struggle with huge amounts of insecurities today and I still fear what people think of me. I have learned to force and push myself through it most times now but, I truely don't think I will ever get over that shit totally. I still find myself at times thinking about the place and specific situations like it was yesterday and I graduated in 89 for God sakes. The one thing I can say that I would not trade in the world is a friend that I met in their that specifically kept my ass from relapsing and / potential suicide twice in the 15 years since I have been out. If I would have never been placed there regardless of all the mind fucking and pain in or after Straight...I would have not ever met this person. And I can also relate to the hosty thing in the real world, I remember going to a meeting after graduating terrified out of my skull and all I could do is cry violently and then when people could finally begin to understand me I decided to tell them that I was mollested and I think I avoid feelings by masturbating to much and that meant I was gonna relapse. I am not sure that particular AA meeting was quite ready for that type of honesty coming out of a 15 year old boy that already had over a year and half of sobriety. Holy Shit was I fucked up!! Thank God the silence ended after my sharing moment in that meeting. Everyone just sat there after I said what I said and finally stopped crying. The men in that meeting did not know what to do, let alone how to respond. I remember a older woman finally chimed in with tears in her eyes and welcomed me. I dunno what she all said anymore but she kind of took me under her wing and then a few more people started to talk to me as time passed, then I slowly....very slowly started to realize that Straight was not sobriety or recovery and I really knew next to nil anything about recovery or reality. Being in Straight and then being released like an animal back into the real world was probabley the hardest thing I ever went through in my life. A normal person would respond to me then you should be so proud and confident and secure in your life. Well, I am far from any of that. I also hate the awareness bull shit that I took with from Straight that always tends to creep up allowing me to judge everyone or not trust anyone....that I see. Amazes me what can be drilled and learned in a stay at Straight(average 1-2 years)and 13 years of trying to get rid of most of what I was taught. The torture that I must have put old girlfriends and some others through after I got out of Straight must have been insane but, I only ever believed I was doing the right thing for them or for myself at the time. I never that I can recall ever wanted to intentionally hurt anyone....thats the ironic thing. I am just glad that their was some other people or at least one person that got to go through this specifically with me in and out. I also know that I have a very strong bond with just about anyone that ever went through Straight whether I know them or not and regardless of their present state or situation. It's scarey to think that there is probabley a ton of people out there in the wild that think like I did and still do at times.

[Aaron3]

But then there are times when all I seem to interested in is my own belly butto lint.....I that normal??

Signed,

Very Concerned