Foregiveness

[animals all of us]

I talk to my counselor every week about certain issues.  Its only been a couple of months since I started going.

I cried bitterly when we uncovered my time at Straight Incorporated.  Sure, something has always sat wrong in my stomach about my time in there.  I graduated on my eighteenth birthday prematurely.  They tricked me yet again and I bought it.  I had attended a survivors conference a year or so ago, even then I had not realized what was done to me - I kind of thought the convention would be more about discussing issues of how to make better treatment facilities.  But in the last couple weeks we, me and my psycho therapist, are able to see that my PTSD and depression are a direct result of time spent at Straight.

And in yesterday's session I spoke more about confrontation and yelling at my peers.  I talked about the times (which was actually All the time) when other patients stood up it was basically my job to punish them ending with an 'I love you'.  If the tears did not seem genuine (it was my job to make sure they weren't) I would tear into the person.  That was counseling; to punish or be punished by way of yelling or restraint or other - without cause, and to find vulnerability and CRUSH the damn shit.

I've said in other posts that it has been hard for me because these enstranged traits that I soaked in and habitualized for three years are not good sociable traits.  If someone today tells me something I don't want to hear or its sounds out of whack it is my compulsion to punish them.  I want to punish everyone who has ever done anything to me or anything that I have perceived that they have done to me.  I have had the law called on me for trying to confront others and others confronting me, I have lost many relationships that definitely would have been different if those traits had not been instilled in me, and lost much otherwise valuable family time not understanding how to reconcile my time away from the family.  So, it is obvious now that I had developed a great Compulsion to act out on these habits of punishing others.

I used to drink Coca-Cola everyday at least three litres daily.  I recently found some root beers at the health food store that not only have fizz but they taste good, too.  They don't have caffeine, they don't fuck up my immune system, even if they cost a little more they don't taste weird like some alternatives do.  You can say I have found a perfect difference against my coke habit.  About my habitual compulsion to punish others; is there some healthier alternative for this

In my compulsion to punish others I must attempt to find some other way of acting.  I think what I might be looking for here is forgiveness.  I am not one hundred percent certain what that word means, but I don't think it means letting others take anything from me.  In no way do I think that the society I live in means for me to forget what has been done to me and that it is now somehow unpunishable by law.  The same would be done to me absolutely if I had abused 50,000 kids or more.  Maybe forgiveness is doing unto others with forgiveness what would be justifiably done me.

I hear that forgiveness is the key to happiness.  If giving is receiving and if I give to another as I would give to me, then I might receive my forgiveness back as I lent it.  Hmm.  Sometimes this psychobabble gets over my head.

But I can take it as I want to.  I harp alot on vulnerable issues especially when I desire to feel sad or hurt about the loss of my identity, the loss of friends and family, and other important issues.  I want to protect myself and make those vulnerable feelings go away to protect me.  

For now forgiveness could just mean to find something good in everyone.  It could mean that I do not have to protect myself anymore against my own vulnerability.  For now forgiveness may just be to allow myself the brevity to breathe and be human for more than just a couple seconds; to feel the world around me as it is.  To feel the sweet sadness of a new clear day, brought from yesterday's passing.

[Antigen]

What to do instead of punishing people...

Well, I suppose it depends a lot on the situation.

One thing I learned after years of raging at my loved ones over stupid shit is that, half the time, whatever the little problem I was obsessing on turned out to be partially or entirely my fault. Just bearing that in mind makes it a lot easier for me to count to ten and come up with a more sensible response to whatever's bothering me.

The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics
is often very tolerant and human. But when fanatics are on top,
there is no limit to oppression.

--H.L. Mencken

[animals all of us]

My fiance's brother and myself got into a little tussle the other day cos he said I was taking advantage of people's kindness.
He proceeded to call me some names and he got in my face and then I got in his and some wicked shit ensued.  I didn't get hurt but his sister, my poor girlfriend, did.  He wound up on the ground above his sister.
I was mad.  
After a few weeks of looking at my girlfriends bruised foot that he layed on, and really desiring to call the police on him for starting the stuff, I realize that it may have been avoided if I'd kept my mouth shut and not tried to be the tougher man.

[Anonymous]

I talk to my counselor every week about certain issues. Its only been a couple of months since I started going.

I cried bitterly when we uncovered my time at Straight Incorporated. Sure, something has always sat wrong in my stomach about my time in there. I graduated on my eighteenth birthday prematurely. They tricked me yet again and I bought it. I had attended a survivors conference a year or so ago, even then I had not realized what was done to me - I kind of thought the convention would be more about discussing issues of how to make better treatment facilities. But in the last couple weeks we, me and my psycho therapist, are able to see that my PTSD and depression are a direct result of time spent at Straight.

And in yesterday's session I spoke more about confrontation and yelling at my peers. I talked about the times (which was actually All the time) when other patients stood up it was basically my job to punish them ending with an 'I love you'. If the tears did not seem genuine (it was my job to make sure they weren't) I would tear into the person. That was counseling; to punish or be punished by way of yelling or restraint or other - without cause, and to find vulnerability and CRUSH the damn shit.

I've said in other posts that it has been hard for me because these enstranged traits that I soaked in and habitualized for three years are not good sociable traits. If someone today tells me something I don't want to hear or its sounds out of whack it is my compulsion to punish them. I want to punish everyone who has ever done anything to me or anything that I have perceived that they have done to me. I have had the law called on me for trying to confront others and others confronting me, I have lost many relationships that definitely would have been different if those traits had not been instilled in me, and lost much otherwise valuable family time not understanding how to reconcile my time away from the family. So, it is obvious now that I had developed a great Compulsion to act out on these habits of punishing others.

I used to drink Coca-Cola everyday at least three litres daily. I recently found some root beers at the health food store that not only have fizz but they taste good, too. They don't have caffeine, they don't fuck up my immune system, even if they cost a little more they don't taste weird like some alternatives do. You can say I have found a perfect difference against my coke habit. About my habitual compulsion to punish others; is there some healthier alternative for this

In my compulsion to punish others I must attempt to find some other way of acting. I think what I might be looking for here is forgiveness. I am not one hundred percent certain what that word means, but I don't think it means letting others take anything from me. In no way do I think that the society I live in means for me to forget what has been done to me and that it is now somehow unpunishable by law. The same would be done to me absolutely if I had abused 50,000 kids or more. Maybe forgiveness is doing unto others with forgiveness what would be justifiably done me.

I hear that forgiveness is the key to happiness. If giving is receiving and if I give to another as I would give to me, then I might receive my forgiveness back as I lent it. Hmm. Sometimes this psychobabble gets over my head.

But I can take it as I want to. I harp alot on vulnerable issues especially when I desire to feel sad or hurt about the loss of my identity, the loss of friends and family, and other important issues. I want to protect myself and make those vulnerable feelings go away to protect me.

For now forgiveness could just mean to find something good in everyone. It could mean that I do not have to protect myself anymore against my own vulnerability. For now forgiveness may just be to allow myself the brevity to breathe and be human for more than just a couple seconds; to feel the world around me as it is. To feel the sweet sadness of a new clear day, brought from yesterday's passing.

[Woof-a-Doof]

Forgiveness isn't the most popular word used in this forum and it really isn't difficult to figure out why that is so.

About 10 years ago I began to realize that I had gone full cirlce with the hatred and bitterness towards Straight and those who I have harbored tremendious resentment. As I said I had gone full circle about 30-40 times. Each time I went thru this cyclical chain of emotions I found myself seething in rage.

Like yourself, Animals, I began to intellectually learn about the merits of forgiveness. Infact, I had heard from many sources supporting this notion that I should forgive. Although many of those kind souls, I believe had good intentions, none of them could explain fully, to my satisfaction, on how to go about this buisiness of forgiveness. So, again I was left to carry this dilema on my own shoulders. I began to realize that forgiveness was about the only thing I had left to do, in order to fully relieve myself of this thing called Straight.

I never could find a consise method to forgive. I read many things from many different cultures...what some may call Holy Books. I found them all to be entertaining at best. Most of them encouraged this thing called "forgiveness", but none of them really spelled out the "how to" aspect of the process of "forgiveness".

Over the years I have found this forgiveness issue to be most challenging. As I indicated, I intellectually knew that forgiveness would do my heart a world of good. I figured once I had forgiven that by default my treatment of others would change as a result. I concluded that I am basically a good and gentle person, that if I purged the anger/rage/hatred/etc...that I would be who and what I am...a good person, a gentle person.

Now, after making my own attempts at forgiveness under no ones guidance but my own, I found the forgiveness issue to be most troubling(sp). Re-cognising that forgiveness would be the best thing for me to do, I also found that I actively resisted even attempting to offer the slightest hint towards forgiveness.

Rather than being in a hate/rage cycle I have included forgiveness into that very same cycle. Keep in mind that I have been working on this for some 10+ years. For the most part I thought I had finally made some progress, then up and out of the blue I once again would find myself in yet another seething pit of anger.

I think before I began hanging around here in the "Survivor/Veteran" camp, I was on top of my game...in regards to furthering myself from the effects of Straight. But now since engrossed in others stories and hearing names that I hadn't thought about in a quarter century, I often find myself riddled in that same familiar state of rage...that few outside of this forum can even begin to understand.

Even tho I still taste the bitter sweet rage towards names/events from that time period I have begun to make a conciouis effort in my dealings with other people, especially my loved ones. Unfortuanately they are the ones I am most inclined to vent my rage upon. I have also begun to recognise my seething rage before I allow myself to vent. Once recognised I do everything in my power to restrain myself from ripping someone a new asshole.

I wonder how long this effort will take untill I have purged all the rage/hate from my system. I also wonder if that that complete "purge" will indeed ever really happen. Because I don't have an answer to these questions I find that I have to not to engage in hate related activities...at least to the best of my abilities. But at the same time, when I do have the hate/rage thing I allow myself to feel the emotions. I have found out that those feelings are not perminate...they do go away at somepoint.

I appreciated your post and I appreciate your efforts in forgiving. I suspect it took alot of balls to confront this issue and even more to post about it. I wish you the best!

[Antigen]

Dude, quit hanging with stepcraft practitioners. They're giving you bad advice.

Anger and hate are not fluid substances that require venting and bleeding or any such thing. They're most often the result of profound misunderstanding. When something doesn't go the way you expect, when you get fucked for expecting something you think is reasonable, then you wind up angry. That's close to the clinical definition, if memory serves at all.

I find it much easier to accept and live peacefully in the world w/ people who are capable of the sort of things done in the Program by better understanding them. At the bottom of this or any other human tragedy is always, no exceptions, a mix of the usual ingredients of the human condition. I can understand what drives ppl like the Semblers. I understand how they convince themselves and why they do what they do. Given a few script changes, I might fall for the same delusions as they have. Not only is it easy to forgive someone once you understand them, you also get a better understanding of what to expect from them and how to deal with that.

All penalties for drug users should be dropped...Making drug abuse a crime is useless and even dangerous...Every year we seize more and more drugs but the quantity available still increases...Police are losing the drug battle worldwide.


--Raymond Kendall ~ Secretary General of Interpol 1994

_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[dragonfly]

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-18 20:31:00, dragonfly wrote:


In my opinion these words clearly speak the the essence of healing.
"

Why thank you! That's the kindest thing I think I've ever heard.

When elephants ? ght, it is the grass that suffers.

http://jonathangullible.com/translations/UK_Comnt040222.pdf' target='_new'>Kikuyu proverb

[dragonfly]

[dragonfly]

[Woof-a-Doof]

On 2005-12-18 18:02:00, Antigen wrote:

"Dude, quit hanging with stepcraft practitioners. They're giving you bad advice.

Two assupmtions. 1) I do not "hang with stepcraft practioners" 2) I am not recievng any advise.

Anger and hate are not fluid substances that require venting and bleeding or any such thing. They're most often the result of profound misunderstanding. When something doesn't go the way you expect, when you get fucked for expecting something you think is reasonable, then you wind up angry. That's close to the clinical definition, if memory serves at all.

I agree..whether it is "clnical" or not, I dunno. However I think that anger that is,um..current, that is anything I may get pissed off about regardng in this time period, is clearly based on my expectations. If those expectations are not met anger is likly to ensue.

I find it much easier to accept and live peacefully in the world w/ people who are capable of the sort of things done in the Program by better understanding them. At the bottom of this or any other human tragedy is always, no exceptions, a mix of the usual ingredients of the human condition. I can understand what drives ppl like the Semblers. I understand how they convince themselves and why they do what they do. Given a few script changes, I might fall for the same delusions as they have. Not only is it easy to forgive someone once you understand them, you also get a better understanding of what to expect from them and how to deal with that.

Ok, understanding...that leaves a whole new approach to this anger thing. I am not sure I can ever fully understand ones motivations unless I apply a liberal amount of assumption...or if someone explains thier motivations. Seems that after all this time, it is unlikely that those I am most angered by (staff) will come about and offer a clear explanation for thier actions.

I can't follow others justifications for staff. You know the ones....Staff members were simply caught up in an extension of thier time in the program. Sorry, I just don't subscribe to that rationale.

I will take what ever peace I can find, when ever it is available. And Antigen, I do agree to a great extent with what you said in regards to "understanding". I don't mean to be arguementative...perhaps it's my own mis-understanding...

Don't you think there are two angers...That in the "present", when shit goes wrong or as you said, expectations are not met. Then there is longstanding anger (felt in the present) yet it's root stretches back some was some 28 years. The shit that goes on daily, I think I have a pretty good grasp of. The longstanding anger from Straight, eh, well thats a different story.

Oy, time to ready myself for work. Such a subject, one worthy of investigation. I look forward to seing if others will post thier experience as well!

In Peace

[dragonfly]

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-18 22:43:00, dragonfly wrote:

"you have been speaking so clearly lately, ya bringin damn tears to my bloodshot eyes
"

Well, spending that little time w/ you guys and Cayo helped break me out of soldier mode. I don't know how long it'll hold out, but I feel alive again.  :cry:

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams

[dragonfly]

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-19 03:36:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

I can't follow others justifications for staff. You know the ones....Staff members were simply caught up in an extension of thier time in the program. Sorry, I just don't subscribe to that rationale.

Well, maybe I get that better than some cause I had to figure it out to make sense of personal affairs. I saw it w/ my own eyes over years. The girl next door, the one who two of my brothers were hopelessly in love with. She went in, went through and came out a staffer. By the time I was on the run several years later, she was my sister in law and my nephew's mom. And she gave me safe harbour in her home to escape the madness. Just as quick, she pulled the rug out soon after my magical 18th birthday. But I can't really be mad about that. She was a young, struggling mother trying to build a family of her own. And, for reasons I can't quite wrap my mind around, I was a problem to her. And I saw the transformation again and again in Straight; newcomer to oldcomer to staffer to *poof*, dissapeared. So then I started looking around at the entire industry and the very same thing happens, again and again in all of these Synanon based TC programs.

Why blame the individual for falling for the same scam as so many hundreds and thousands of others have? Yeah, anger is the engine that drives us, much of the time, to solve problems. In this case, I don't think the problem is so much in the individuals who played their walk-on parts as it is in the philosophy and the institutions that propagate it.

I will take what ever peace I can find, when ever it is available. And Antigen, I do agree to a great extent with what you said in regards to "understanding". I don't mean to be arguementative...perhaps it's my own mis-understanding...

I forgive you  :rofl: No, seriously, what's the point in having a conversation if everybody already agrees w/ one another at the outset? That would be like playing w/ dead puppies.

Don't you think there are two angers...That in the "present", when shit goes wrong or as you said, expectations are not met. Then there is longstanding anger (felt in the present) yet it's root stretches back some was some 28 years. The shit that goes on daily, I think I have a pretty good grasp of. The longstanding anger from Straight, eh, well thats a different story.

Honestly, the things that piss me off the most in the present are almost always reminders of those deep wounds from the past.

Like, fer instance, I take my dog and kids to the local park and settle myself in w/ some music and a good magazine. I needed that break more than the dog and the kids did, I think.

Well one kid goes merrily off to bike the walking path and the other turns the dog loose to heap her boysterous affection onto any passer by. The first passer by happened to be an elderly gentleman taking his prescribed constitutional accompanied by his home care nurse.

So I call the dog, leash her up and go lecture the kid on proper manners and making oneself welcome in this public place. Problem solved, right? Sure, so I go back to reading, doing the occasional swivel to make sure the littler kid is not wandering too far.

Next passer by is another elderly man, but not a nice guy at all. He stops to scold me about letting my dog run loose. I point out that I've already got that problem solved, the dog is tied off and the kid has been duely lectured. Wadaya want me to do, take them out and shoot them? Now, or can I wait till dawn? And do you think it's appropriate to walk up to an adult stranger and start lecturing on proper management of dogs and kids? He blinks, startled, how dare I give him lip?

And he's not done, no! He then points to the sign, brand new and clearly listing all the park rules. This is a long list, like 10 items or so, of proscribed items and activities that kids like, likely intended to circumvent the proscription of posting just the one rule they really want; "No Goddamned Kids!" Rule #3 is no bicycles on the track.

So I ask him if he'd put his grandchildren out on these streets to play in traffic. He assures me that he would because it's a rule. So I call him a stupid Nazi.

That got him! That turned the table. Finally, he's pissed off in a vulnerable, unexpected way like me, not in an elder scolding the young, powerful kind of way as he had been. He's practically sputtering and stuttering as he shouts something about how I don't know anything about Nazis.

So then I'm calm again. I'm still angry, but enjoying the power of it. This is one of those scenes just like some past ones, except that I'm in control. I'm the grown up now. And we're out in the more commonly accepted reality, I'm right and I know it and I'm willing to take a chance that my new neighbors will probably acquit me. If not, well then who needs `em or their pretty park, right?

So this poor old dude is getting a little dose of what's owing to so many little fuckers like him in my personal ledger. I tell him that yes, blind adherance to arbitrary rules, untempered by compassion or common sense, that is just exactly where the Nazis went wrong. He was speechless and stalked off in a huff, muttering something about how I don't know who I'm dealing with and all. Never heard another word about it. Very satisfying!

The other old guy and his nurse finally make their way around to where I'm sitting and stop to thank me for reeling the dog in. One good tackle hug from that dog might have spelled the end for the frail old guy.

Next thing ya know, the city goes and puts playground equipment right in the middle of that fine and placid walking track w/ the WWII tank at one end and granite war memorial at the other. ROFL! I bet the old fucker had a stroke first time he saw that.

All in all, it was a win, a score settled. That little friendly conversation w/ the other old guy was just so reassuring. Made me feel welcome and wanted and right at home.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm getting at. Just maybe that I don't treat anger as a problem to be solved. Frustrated anger, impotent rage, yeah, that's a problem. In that case, I think you just have to either figure out how it's misplaced or mistaken and give it up or figure out how it's justified and rightous and how best to direct it.

I also frequenty hold forth on cheap plastic shit made in China. I have a couple of young men in my life now who are dear to me. One aspires to be a Marine like his dad and his dad and all the uncles worthy of esteem. They other might land up in the military if they institute the draft. So ain't no way I'm buying bullets for China's military, not if I have a choice. And I'll keep on delivering that sermon as often as need be till these kids of mine start to get it too. No, of course we can't be purists on this point. There's just no practical way to avoid buying cheap plastic shit made in China. That's the point. Wherever we do have a choice, I'll drive a little further, pay a little more, but do all I can to support competitors so they won't go away.

Oh, one more, this was fun. I'm checkin out this leather jacket for $20 goin "Huh, how's that possible?" And I find the tag, shaw nuff, made in China. So I said to my husband (loud enough to be overheard by the nebbish old lady taking her time going by us) "Oh, I see. This is real leather, but not cow hide. It's actually made from the hides of spent Chinese slave children." The old lady smiled and moved on.

It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word! --
--Andrew Jackson