Author Topic: I am an exsafe counselor  (Read 35016 times)

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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2003, 11:16:00 AM »
One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell?  You need to grow up!

Start basing your life on "objective reality".

At SAFE, all the staff were trained in approved physical intervention techniques, by outside, third-party trainers.  But that is not what you want to know.  Did people get hurt?  On ocassion, staff and clients were hurt, including myself.
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2003, 11:20:00 AM »
I am not a lawyer, nor did I pretend to be.  However, if a minor needs treatment and they are not given treatment, that is parental neglect in the eyes of the law, not a breach of the child's civil liberties.  Do you even believe what you are saying?  Children under 18 are not equals to their parents.  I would think you would know this by now.
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2003, 11:24:00 AM »
Quote
One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell? You need to grow up!


Never assume. It'll make an ASS out of YOU and ME. One of Scott Prophet's (straight staff) fav quotes, and I'll use it here. You don't know what led up to me going into the program I went into. I might not have touched drugs, for all you know. Some kids were sent away for the sole reason that they didn't live up to the "family image." Even if I was the lowest junkie in desparate need of help, the TC model of treatment just wasn't/isn't the answer for most of us. You want me to back that statement up? Just do some research on your own. The truth is out there...
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2003, 11:27:00 AM »
Teens and children have civil liberties. And BTW this statement is illogical:

Quote
am not a lawyer, nor did I pretend to be. However, if a minor needs treatment and they are not given treatment, that is parental neglect in the eyes of the law, not a breach of the child's civil liberties


(It is self-contradicting, or a non-sequitor or something like that. Re-read it and think about it.)
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2003, 11:28:00 AM »
Again, at SAFE, we only dealt with kids with drugs problems.  I was not aware that there was treatment for those kids who have parents with unrealistic expectations.  Do you sense my sarcasm?  I hope so.
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2003, 11:30:00 AM »
You need to call your local senator and ask him to change to laws so that a minor child can do whatever he wants.  Good luck!
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2003, 11:32:00 AM »
I can only hope that what you say is true. But I certainly question it. SAFE was straight inc. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If you want to believe that everyone "needed to be there" go ahead. But that whole mode of treatment is a farce anyway. So either way, your statement doesn't hold water for me...
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2003, 11:33:00 AM »
Children ALREADY have RIGHTS that were VIOLATED and STILL ARE by these programs. If you are sincere, help us to end the abuse.
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2003, 11:36:00 AM »
I have no problem with children being treated against their will.  There is nothing that says they have to agree to it.  Their disagreeing with it is normal and expected.

If physicl abuse happens, I will help you.
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2003, 11:40:00 AM »
The whole mode of treatment can be considered abuse. There are alternatives.
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2003, 11:41:00 AM »
Were you in SAFE at anytime
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2003, 11:43:00 AM »
Do you think that motivating was abusive?
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Offline ClayL

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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2003, 12:49:00 PM »
This is so full of shit. Base what on objective reality? Yes "motivating" was not only abusive, but degrading as hell. Let's all flop about like some epileptic during a gran mal seizure. The way the rules were, most parents had no idea what exactly went on in group.

All your arguments are circular and self fulfilling prophecies. They are also fallacious. Just because some one, lets says a teenager, experiments with pot does not give them a drug or behavioral disorder. During my time on staff I saw numerous children subjected to drug treatment for things I would call normal now. I also think straight, SAFE and the like have a fiduciary predisposition to find drug problems in children. I would tend to believe the problems fall more into the parenting arena than onto the kids. Most kids wound up in there because their parents were sold what proves to be a lie more often than not, "Your kid will be in jail, an institution, not as good as this one, or dead if you don't get them help now." I ask you to prove me wrong. What are the cases? Do they out-weigh the kids that turned out okay. I know dang near all my friends that didn't wind up in straight now have post graduate degrees and I am the one playing catch-up. Anecdotally, this goes for most if not all of my straight brethren. Kind of makes me just want to jump up and say, "THANKS FOR THE FUCKING HELP!"

Further, you stated that clients chose to make their programs longer and to miss out on the things you call privileges. Lets look at my case then. From the first day I complied with the program. Not once did I misbehave. I spent 30 months in there. Why, because I didn't get along with some of the Sr.s. Funny thing is, I was over 18 and I did choose to be there. Hmmm, some of the people some of the time....

I do think that parents have the right to raise their children as they see fit. I also believe they have the right to place their children into treatment facilities if the child's problems can be handled best in this manner. I do not believe that contact with ones family is a privilege or should ever be considered such. I think one should be encouraged to talk about everything that happens to them during the day, in group, with whomever is willing to listen. Especially family! None of that crap would have ever been allowed if the parents knew about it. Treatment should not be secretive, it should be open.

As far as physical abuse at SAFE I cannot say. I wasn't there. Straight was abusive as hell and drove kids to be hurtful of themselves and others. This wasn't some manifestation of their drug problem. That's BS and you should know that.

Here's the upshot of the whole thing. I spent years believing that I was a dope fiend because of the corrupt diagnosis of the staff at straight, inc. Straight had a financial reason to find this diagnosis. Only later in life did I find that I was ADHD. Once this was treated, low and behold, ALL the issue that I had been struggling with throughout my life just up and vanished. I suspect that there are thousands of people that went through straight and its descendants that have similar if not the same experience. It is this that causes such distrust and name calling of the off shoots. Straight lied to us, often. Sold us a bunch of hooey that most of us tried to live. Only after struggling for 15-20 years, trying to apply the straight propaganda to our lives, did we begin to suspect that the real issue was straight. I'm just not sure that SAFE has been around long enough for your head to come out of your ass. Yet.

Clay
Jr 2 - Straight ATL

Correcting the spelling errors....

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-11-04 09:51 ]
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2003, 12:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-11-04 08:04:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

"You got yourself there by the choices you made prior to treatment-DRUGS.  you chose to stay there longer than necessary by not following the rules.  Even while you were there, you willingly kept yourself from the simple joys in life of watching TV, talking on the phone, being able to take a day off, just because you did not want to did some very simple basic things.  Does that sound like a good decision to you?
"


Wait a second here. I thought you were going to talk about what you know? I did follow the rules, down to the last. The things that bothered me enough to make me want, no need to get out where things like when they kept a boy in timeout w/o sleep, bathroom 'priviledges' or a break from constant harrassment to the point where the kid was catatonic.

I didn't even yell or hit back when someone smashed my nose. I had a good reason for holding onto my temper like life itself. I had to be absolutely sure in my own mind that what you've said above was not true. I knew it, logically. But logic is no match for relentless indoctrination. I had to have proof and I got it.

One thing I don't understand about what you've said so far. You say you were there for 3 years up to about 2000. But then you say you were there when Straight changed it's name to SAFE. But that happened in 1992. That would be 8 years, not 3.

That's also a long time for a kid to spend in close association with a cult. So I can understand why you're so deeply washed and I'm not mad at you. I just hope you find what you're looking for.

"There lives more faith, in honest doubt, Believe me, than in half the creeds."
Alfred Lord Tennyson

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln



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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2003, 01:05:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-11-04 08:16:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

"One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell?  You need to grow up!



Start basing your life on "objective reality".
"

I think you're missing something important here, son. Most of the people you're talking to have kids of our own. My oldest is 19. Some of us even have grandkids already. We've figured a few things out over the years.

And, for my part, I would agree that, as much as it pains us as parents to see our kids make big and painful mistakes, there's only so much you can do to disuede them once they've decided to quit taking direction.

The objective reality here is that we've all grown up and left the cult, even though for some of us it meant leaving our natural families behind. We've jumped the fence and found no cliff.

The criteria by which the Program declares that a kid is harming themselves is entirely subjective. For the most part, it's based on the parents' level of emotional upset. Some parents lose their grip over the tiniest things.

Quote

At SAFE, all the staff were trained in approved physical intervention techniques, by outside, third-party trainers.  But that is not what you want to know.  Did people get hurt?  On ocassion, staff and clients were hurt, including myself.  


Yes, and you got lots of practice, too, as I understand it. Here's an excerpt from Wes Fager's online book "A Clockwork Straight"
http://www.thestraights.com/book/index.htm .

"A  Florida HRS site visit report of SAFE  (a  Sembler-based synanon in Orlando, Florida)  conducted between July 6 - 8 and July 13 - 15, 1993 found that during the 30 day period leading up to the state investigation there had been approximately 29 "reported" incidents of restraint while only 1 reported incidence of restraint at all other juvenile drug rehabs in the district combined!"

I guess you would have been there right about then. In your opinion, why is it that kids who find themselves in drug treatment at SAFE seem to require restraint so much more often than kids who find themselves in treatment elsewhere?

If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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