Author Topic: I am an exsafe counselor  (Read 34870 times)

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Offline exsafecounselor

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I am an exsafe counselor
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2003, 04:57:00 PM »
Actually to work there you do not have to be a graduate of the program or even be a recovering person.  Like many of my professional colleagues, I was a Certified Addictions Professional.  That is a stringent certification process that tests a counselor's knowledge and ability in several areas.  It allows me to testify in court as an expert witness.  So that is how I know what I am talking about.  I was there when Straight closed and SAFE opened.  I was gone long before the WAMI program.

I do agree however, that during my time at SAFE, the owner of the program was completely unqualified to be a front-line counselor or even a clinical director.  

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-03 13:58 ]
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2003, 05:03:00 PM »
many many "certified addiction prosessionals" klept any educational requirements and instead went on 'experience'. Most of them are ex drug junkies and current  program junkies,  

The experience most CAPs have, of course, is being a "counselor" in a tc.  Therefore, to me it is a meaningless set of letters.

Sorry, don't mean you any disrespect...just my opinion. I have talked to more than one CAP that didn't know his ass from his elbow.



...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates



[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2003-11-03 14:06 ]
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2003, 05:10:00 PM »
you kind of weaseled around that one pal. Are you saying you didn't go thru the program or just intended to insinuate it?

Also, sure the director wasn't qualified to run a program. None of you were, you were all under cultic influences and using a proven failure mode of treatment....Art barkers failed experiment.


No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2003, 06:16:00 PM »
Imprisonment, common definition.
Main Entry: im·pris·on
Pronunciation: im-'pri-z&n
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French emprisoner, from en- + prison prison
Date: 14th century
: to put in or as if in prison : CONFINE
- im·pris·on·ment  /-m&nt/ noun

False imprisonment
Main Entry: false imprisonment
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: imprisonment of a person contrary to law

You do know that even parents can only do so much to control their childs behavior or keep them from leaving, right? How come you won't answer my question?

"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily.  Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr112901.htm' target='_new'>Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2003, 06:31:00 PM »
Ginger,

I think I missed your question.  What would you like to know?
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

--- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2003, 06:40:00 PM »
Your definition of imprisonment and how it differs from the conventional definition.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2003, 06:42:00 PM »
That looks like the definition of imprisionment to me.  I am assuming that you are trying to make a point, which is?
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

--- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2003, 06:54:00 PM »
And you never saw any confinement going on in all those years at SAFE?

Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves

--Ronald Reagan

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2003, 06:56:00 PM »
not to speak for Ginger, but you made this statement:

" I never abused, imprisoned, or mistreated anyone during my time at SAFE, nor did I see anyone abused, imprisoned, or mistreated. What makes you think that I did?"

By the very definition of imprisonment, your statement is shown to be false.

By the history of the Straight & Safe, your statement "nor did I see anyone abused" is patently false. We only now have to explore the definition of that term and then apply it to the known techniques of the organization of your former employe..including but not limited to punishment for using the bathroom, restricted diets, restriction of thought, forcing children to use loaded language, locking children up in small rooms (time out room)...too name just a few.

And Mistreatment.....Hooboy...you are opening a whole different can of worms there.

I reject your statement in its entirety and recognize it for what it is...bullshit.


Again, no disrespect intended...just vastly different views on the same subject and personal experience in the TC modality.



In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

--Thomas Jefferson 1798



[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2003-11-03 15:58 ]
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2003, 07:07:00 PM »
Let me add this one thing to let you know where I'm coming from. When I first got out in late `82, I didn't feel asthough I could testify about abuse I'd experienced or witnessed. When I thought of the time I got sat on for two hours and, the next day, got my nose broken after a couple of hours in timeout, I didn't think that qualified as abuse. After all, I'd made the concious decision to refuse to apologize to group for leaving and not being happy to be back. I knew the consequences and thought the nobel and upright thing to do was to stand and take them without complaint.

But, back here in the more commonly accepted reality, most people on the planet would consider that kind of treatment extremely abusive for the infraction of refusing to lie.

When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline kaydeejaded

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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2003, 09:39:00 AM »
I think that something is bothering "exsafecounselor" or he never would of found us in the 1st place.

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and peace. And covers with the shield of it's protection all classes of men at all times and under all circumstances.
--US Supreme Court, Ex Parte Milligan

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or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2003, 10:11:00 AM »
Imprisonment: Being in a treatment center against your will is not imprisonment.  I have done plenty of things in my life that I had to do or needed to do that were the complete opposite of what I wanted to do.  That again is not imprisonment.  Every single client, from the kid sitting on the front row, first chair to the fifth phaser would rather not be there.  

Mistreatment:  If a child is hurting themselves, others, or destroying property, and after verbal intervention does not work, physical intervention is not only warranted, it is necessary for the protection of the person and the group as a whole.

Let me ask you this, did you ever think that following the rules might acutally be beneficial?
I know you were asked to do such terrible things like talk about yourself, and be honest, and learn a different way of living.  

I did work with group staff members that were in Straight and they did state that "back on my program" that misbehaviors were dealt with by other group members.  I recognize that this did happen at the Straight locations that they were treated.  However, at SAFE this never happened.  

I can not say this enough.  I can and will only speak to what I know, which is the 2 1/2 years I worked at SAFE.  What I know of Straight only comes from what I heard about from group staff members that were there.

"Tis hard for an empty bag to stand upright."
-Ben Franklin


[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-04 07:14 ]

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-04 07:28 ]

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-04 07:38 ]
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2003, 10:59:00 AM »
Ooh I'm gonna blast you before anyone else can. I'm comin home this week mofo!
 
Quote
Imprisonment: Being in a treatment center against your will is not imprisonment. I have done plenty of things in my life that I had to do or needed to do that were the complete opposite of what I wanted to do. That again is not imprisonment. Every single client, from the kid sitting on the front row, first chair to the fifth phaser would rather not be there.
So they were being held against their will. you could say that you "have" to go to work, but like they taught us in RSC, you don't "have" to do anything but be born, breathe, and die. So you don't "have" to go to work. But clients HAD to stay in that joint whether they liked it or not...face it, you're in denial! Now let me click "Say It" before someone else beats me to it!!!

Quote
Mistreatment: If a child is hurting themselves, others, or destroying property, and after verbal intervention does not work, physical intervention is not only warranted, it is necessary for the protection of the person and the group as a whole.

Ok, now let me go off on this...protection means it's ok to abuse the person? No one was licensed in any kind of skill to restrain someone. There were BROKEN BONES resulting from that crap. Maybe YOU didn't see it happen. I don't know firsthand what happened at SAFE. Did they sit on people? Did they restrain people?

[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-04 08:05 ]
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2003, 11:04:00 AM »
You are making this too easy for me.  Thank you for setting me up.  Lets go back to RSC, since you brought it up.  You got yourself there by the choices you made prior to treatment-DRUGS.  you chose to stay there longer than necessary by not following the rules.  Even while you were there, you willingly kept yourself from the simple joys in life of watching TV, talking on the phone, being able to take a day off, just because you did not want to did some very simple basic things.  Does that sound like a good decision to you?
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

--- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Froderik

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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2003, 11:15:00 AM »
That's some twisted logic there. Think about it. Think outside the box a little. It's ok to deny someone their civil liberties in the name of "treatment?" At this point, I'd like to hear from some other ex-staff on this subject. Don? Clay? Anyone?
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