Author Topic: Sklyline Journey License REVOKED  (Read 14026 times)

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Offline Cynthia

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« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2004, 06:25:00 PM »
Dear Deborah, As I stated before, I really don't want to debate this. My son decided to live with his alcoholic father at 14 years.  Dad didn't make him do homework.  Nor did my son have rules. He was also arrested a couple of times. We have rules in our home, they are very fair because I was raised by such strict parents, it made me sneakey. I wanted better for my son. Well, when his father moved away and my son had to come back home. I had a kid that refused to follow any rules. He moved out and lived in a chair at the highway truck stop. He was selling pot to truckers,picking pockets, stealing ang hanging out with a group that were in trouble with the police. In CT when a kid is 16 they have adult rights. The police could not bring him home. I was so desperate. When you are caught between a rock and a hard place, you have to ask for help or be very knowledgeable about your options, which I was not.  I had to learn fast. Time was not on my side. I had few choices and I only hope for the best for him. I had him in counciling for years. I tried changing his diet, herbal supplements. You name it, we tried it. So if he gets yelled at once in a while,so be it. Hopefully some day he'll look back and understand why. Everything I did was recomended by his shrink. I did everything in my power to help him. He didn't want help. I needed my son to be alive. Also, i looked up your old posts and could not find what path you chose.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2004, 08:26:00 AM »
Just a question---it touches on the "private jail" aspects of this---if your kid had moved out and the police couldn't bring him back, how did he get to Skyline?

Did you hire an escort service to get him and take him, or did you go to the truck stop and pull him into the car, or did he agree to go?

And if he agreed to go, did you tell him the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about what the place was like?

It's private jail if you don't agree to go, but if you give informed consent, it's rehab.

It may be a bad choice of therapy, but full adults make bad choices of medical and psychological therapies all the time.

I'm just curious as to whether it was *his* informed choice or whether force or deception (commission or omission or half-truths counts as deception for this) that got him there.

*I* may think it's a bad choice, but I'm a big believer in letting other people go to hell in their own way.

And that you were apparently lied to about the death that happened there, and who knows if you were otherwise lied to, if he went of his own free will with you telling him what you truly believed and giving him the full information you had to the best of your knowledge, then I can only see it as a risky choice on both your parts that appears to have turned out okay---and I really hope that the appearance is the reality in this case and that he really is fine.

The only people I could blame in that case would be the people who lied to you for whatever they lied about.

If a teen *wants* residential therapy, that's *not* involuntary commitment, and I don't have a problem with it as long as there's informed consent.

I guess I just want it to be a bit like going down and picking up a prescription at your pharmacy---you know what's in it is what's on the label, you know it's been proven safe and effective, and you know there's disclosure in the PDR of all the pertinent risks and contraindications.

I want the industry to have a certain basic quality control so that what a reasonable person would think they're buying is actually what they're getting.

Timoclea
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Offline Kiwi

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« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2004, 12:29:00 PM »
Quote
...but if you give informed consent, it's rehab.

Not once you get there.  Michelle Sutton volunteered but once she got there she wasn't even allowed to phone her mother to tell her she was ill.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2004, 12:54:00 PM »
At some point, one just has to face the truth. There is no amount of legislation and oversight that is going to protect kids while they are incarcerated.

A recent study in Tx determined that children were FIVE TIMES more likely to be injured or abused in out of home placements such as RTCs and wilderness programs. And that was just a survey of kids in the 'protection' of CPS.

Further, you don't know what kind of twisted person your child will be living with. Example: my 10 year old grandson went for his first week-long camp experience. They aren't christians but his mom wasn't concerned, cause you can trust christians to act with integrity, right.

Wrong. He came to my house immediately after returning. What I learned is that they had a really fun program which he enjoyed. But, they left him terribly distressed and anxious about the whole god thing.

He said, "Gramma they told me that if I die when I'm a kid that I can't have my toys or my XBox in heaven with me."

Good God!! Said this to a 10 year old who has little to no ability to think abstractly. Who knows nothing about religion.

Being an agnostic myself, there was much I wanted to say, but given his age and what he had just been through, and seeing that he wanted to believe in god and that he was good; I assured him that everyone has a different opinion about god, and asked him what he thought about the counselor's comment. With a relaxed grin on his face he said he believed that god would let him have his toys.

I told him I thought so too. That I, and many others did not believe that god was mean. We'll have a deeper philosophical discussion when he's older, I'm sure.

That wasn't the end of it. The counselor told him that in order to go to heaven he must read his bible everyday for the rest of his life.

He had many questions about god and jesus. He later wanted to know if god and jesus were still alive and if they were brothers and who was older. His mother told him that jesus was god's son. He wanted to know who his mother was. And who god's parents were.

That happened in a christian camp. And my grandson was only there for a week and feels safe enough to share and ask questions. Imagine a child in a program for 1-3 years and how many opportunites staff would have to influence their thinking, no matter how well intentioned it was, in an inappropriate and hurtful way.

While I realize that a child can't live in a bubble, it makes no sense to intentionally put them in harm's way by abdicating responsibility to strangers you know absolutely nothing about.[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-07-29 09:55 ]
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2005, 11:39:00 PM »
Remembering Ian who was killed three years ago today.

Ironic that Brat Camp aired tonight.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2006, 05:02:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-25 17:05:00, Deborah wrote:

"

kdj,

I hear your frustration, I for one wouldn't consider sending my minor child to strangers, but there are situations in which parents are sold a bill of goods.






"


I have to say i have some feeling for some of the parents who send kids to wildreness programmes, particularly if they are only for the summer. Before i knew what went on in the industry i thought the idea of sending your troubled kid to get away from it all for a little while and spend some time chatting with sympathetic trained adults and getting some exercise seemed a good enough one. Particularly if things were becoming strained at home. It was only when i read more about the punitive atmosphere which some programmes promote & of the lax regulations and series of abuses and deaths that i felt disgusted. I can easily see how an unsuspecting parent who feels that they have done their homework by getting an ed con to "research" could send their kid to such places unwittingly.
I dont excuse what goes on and i will certainly never understand getting an escort service, but I have some sympathy for the parents, particularly those who are made to feel that they are failing as well as for the kids who end up at these places.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2006, 03:52:00 PM »
Yes, sympathy for the parents who cant use google and just trustingly hand their kids over to strangers when the whole country collectively knows that these places arent all happy and games  :roll:

Speak of 'reform school' or 'institution' to the average person and they think of some nasty place.

Oh Puhlease. As hard as the parents are on thier own kids to be accountable why are we going down the whole path of sugarcoating and spoonfeading sunshine to the reason their children were in those programs and we're all here in the first place?
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2006, 02:03:00 AM »
Yes, sympathy for the parents who cant use google and just trustingly hand their kids over to strangers when the whole country collectively knows that these places arent all happy and games  

Thats just it though. It strikes me that there is as much media promoting programmes as criticising them. The all powerful Dr phil has sent several kids to wilderness programmes. I am guessing more average americans watch him than read the new york times or watch french docs.

I dont doubt that there are many lazy or callous parents who dont want to cope with their kids,and many seem to post on ST but there are some who may get genuinely scared by the agressive marketing campaigns of these programmes & this coupled with recommendations from "professionals" can have a powerful effect on some caring parents. Couple this with a lack of confidence and  the pressure of a culture which can have very conservative social sensibilities & i can see how this sort of pressure would have some families think that it is the only choice for their child.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2006, 05:19:00 AM »
Oh Please! When did i say Americans don't read? or that they were un productive? Or that their women just stand around barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen? As to your hatred of Gore and  "lefties" the only reason why right wingers like PJ or rourke are so damn funny is because none of their ideas have any real merit therefore they make better comedians than social commentators!

In fact it is America, for better & for worse that invented tv & the mass market culture which has taken over the world. The Doctor Phils & Oprahs of the world are treated as gurus by the culture that created them! More americans per capita do watch Dr Phil than read the Times. The french Doco was not screened in American cinemas or on TV (not even PBS)
Moreover the scare campaigns of these places are marketed directly to the easily offended sensibilities of middle america. Are you suggesting that the evangelical bible belt or rural montana(which along with Utah seems to house a lot of these places) is perfectly down with the idea of their kids being lesbians or into wikka? Who dont ovrreact to their kids having the odd beer?

America does have a strong & large element of people with easily offended conservative social values and it invented the ever strong and flourishing Evangelical Christian movement! These programmes look specifically designed to scare the dickens out of such people.
Dont assume that any outsider who criticises any element of American culture is automatically anti american! It is a little prissy for someone who does not like crybaby lefties! :wink:
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2006, 06:22:00 AM »
oh ok then. it seems i am the dickhead!
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2006, 09:40:00 AM »
"Moreover the scare campaigns of these places are marketed directly to the easily offended sensibilities of middle america."

Do easily offended sensibilities include being upset about your daughter prostituting herself for meth or other drugs? If your kid is on meth and you aren't scared, God help you--and your kid. Most kids at the Montana programs are there because of meth and other hard drugs, not an occasional beer, or their parents' easily offended sensibilities. And many, many of them are girls whose drug habits made them vulnerable to molestation, rape, and beatings. The programs are where they finally feel safe.


"Are you suggesting that the evangelical bible belt or rural montana(which along with Utah seems to house a lot of these places) is perfectly down with the idea of their kids being lesbians or into wikka? Who dont ovrreact to their kids having the odd beer? "

Hard to tell which of these questions shows more ignorance of the local intellect and culture, at least in regard to rural Montana. First of all, very few of the students at Montana programs are from Montana, so it's hardly a matter of friendly neighborhood rednecks out on a witch hunt, carrying off mildly rebellious teens. Second, it's hard to guess which would be more common in western Montana--lesbians, or kids having a few beers. The parents and the cops tend to encourage kids to camp for the evening rather than drive home when there's a kegger, and to please use condoms.

Western Montana is pretty integrated; the local ranchers and loggers live it up of a Friday with visiting bikers, hippies, academic types, tourists, and singles and couples of every stripe and combination. As long as they're "chill," they're welcome.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2006, 10:17:00 AM »
So Montana, where programs self-regulate, is reserved for meth addicted teen prostitutes?
That's comforting. :rofl:
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2006, 08:41:00 PM »
If your kid had a hardcore meth addiction why would you not seek proper medical treatment with real doctors as opposed to sending you kid to some programme in the middle of nowhere?

If these programmes are not designed to scare middle america then why do so many have lame catch all surveys with questions like:
is your child sexually active?
Do you suspect your child of drinking or "experimenting with drugs?
Does your child have trouble following basic rules?
and the perenial favourites which they all seem to have a variation of
Do you feel your child is susceptable to peer pressure?
Have you noticed a drop in your child's grades?

after ticking the boxes for all of these questions to see what the prognosis was for
WWASPS, Aspen (who seemed to house many programmes in free and easy utah),& whose "video therapist" advised "that it is always worse than you think" without defining what "it" was, Changing winds (located in rural montana) & many others, I found most of them claimed my "child" was at least at moderate risk & I should consider a programme. Of what risk who knows?
 Herpes? Being an embarassment to the family? Terminal brattyness? hardcore drug addiction?

Because if it was the first three, by all means send the kid off to be told what an awful person they are for a few months or even years depending on how compliant they are. Especially do this if you are a stepmom & you married dad for his money & not his shitty kids.  They can move through a series of levels or everyones favourite euphemism "phases" & if they are really good they can have sugar on their cereal. That will learn em! @ least your friends who have polite well behaved kids dont have to witness the little monster you seem to have raised.

In the event that your kid actually has an addiction or a mental illness which requires a doctor, to quote everybodys favourite Aspen Salesman Dr Phil
"what are you thinking"
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2006, 07:50:00 PM »
Quote

On 2006-07-03 17:41:00, Pls help wrote:

"If your kid had a hardcore meth addiction why would you not seek proper medical treatment with real doctors as opposed to sending you kid to some programme in the middle of nowhere?



Did it ever occur to you that some parents HAVE tried to coax their kid to get some help?
Kids on drugs are not exactly trustworthy and willing to go to these medical treatment places?
 They think what they are doing is "normal" because their blood and soul sucking friends are just like them.

When you think you kid is going to end up dead, most parents would choose the lesser of two evils!

DO you know in many states, young teens have ADULT RIGHTS and cannot be forced to get help?
This is why parents MUST send kids away from their HOME STATE in order for them to get treatment!
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2006, 06:36:00 AM »
What? an in charge, responsible, firm can do kind of parent cant force a child with a bonafide addiction which is making them ill and threatening their life (And i assume from you post it is genuinely that bad) to a medical specialist who will attempt to make them better & at least be able to diagnose the severity of the problem in a way that some lame internet survey cant.
Yet the same parent has no qualms whatsoever about sending their kid to a lock down facility that claims to treat everything from shitty grades to addiction to parental disrespect, which may or may not have a doctor of any kind on campus. That makes no logical sense!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen