Author Topic: Sklyline Journey License REVOKED  (Read 13954 times)

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2004, 12:57:00 AM »
Yeh, Scroll up and read previous posts in this thread.

Just wondering how kosher it is for her to refer to her business as a "Therapeutic Foster Home" if she is not qualified to conduct therapy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2004, 01:15:00 AM »
Sheesh, that is a very good question.  Sounds like IDAHO is the new hot spot for programs.  Isn't that where Woodbury Reports headquarters is based?

 :scared:
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2004, 02:02:00 AM »
Just visited the Idaho Health and Welfare Foster Parents site. Comments in FAQs raised even more questions about this operation.

http://www2.state.id.us/dhw/foster_care/english/faq.htm
Given that one must posess a license from the state to be a foster parent, and kids are typically placed by the state; how is she working as a "foster home"?
Foster parents are paid by the state. Does that include kids who are not residents of Idaho or kids that were not placed in foster care by the state?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2004, 05:52:00 PM »
Sorry to take up space, but the link to the article Brooke Adams did on Ian August's death [http://166.70.44.66/2003/Jul/07132003/Utah/Utah]and the details of what happened that day, now takes one to the SLT's home page instead, making it difficult to find. It is cached at Google- the link worked the first time but failed the second, iffy. This is an important article and parents should have easy access to the information it contains.

A Deadly Path
By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Editor's note
This article is based on dozens of interviews in Oklahoma, Texas and Utah. Scenes and dialogue about the events leading to Ian August's death are taken from a transcript of the 9-1-1 call to the Millard County Sheriff's Office; a timeline constructed by Skyline Journey; a transcript of the preliminary hearing in Utah v. Mark Wardle, Leigh Hale and WOW Developments; Skyline Journey daily progress reports kept up to July 13, 2002; witness statements; incident reports filed by the Millard County Sheriff's Office; and a journal kept by Ian August.
   
   First of two parts
FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD Ian August set three simple goals last July 11 while camping with a wilderness therapy program in the Sawtooth Mountain area west of Delta.

Write a poem before dinner if at all possible, he wrote in his journal.
Do day hike without falling down and crying.
Go to bed very, very, very early.
Six days of sweltering heat in the west desert with the Skyline Journey program were taking a toll on the Austin, Texas, teen.
 
    "We went on a day hike today, and I got dehidrated [sic] so I was the last one to to [sic] the little waterfalls," Ian wrote, sdding, "I layed [sic] down and rested a lot there."
    Two days later, Ian August was dead -- though it would be hyperthermia, not dehydration, that killed him.
    He became the fifth teen to die in a Utah wilderness therapy program, the third to perish from a heat illness.
    Like most of those before him -- Michelle Sutton, Aaron Bacon and Kristen Chase -- Ian was judged to be "faking it" as he began to die.
    As happened with the first death, 15-year-old Sutton on May 9, 1990, Ian's case triggered yet more rules for the state's wilderness therapy industry, which each year treats hundreds of troubled teens.
    It also renewed discussion over the benefits and risks of such programs, a debate captured in the opposing views of the two women who loved Ian -- his birth mom and his adoptive mom -- in the aftermath of his death and a failed prosecution.
    One boy, two families: Susan Hatfield Pinson, then living in Broken Arrow, Okla., was 20 when she became pregnant with a child she knew she could not raise. She was young, single and emotionally immature.
    From the couples presented to her by Adoption Affiliates of Tulsa, Okla., she chose Judith August and Dale Whistler of Austin, Texas. Part of their appeal: The couple supported an open adoption, which would allow indirect contact between Susan and her child.
   An adoptee herself, Susan didn't want her child to be haunted about family roots or the circumstances of the birth.
    And just like that, the lives of Judith August, then 44, and Susan Hatfield Pinson, became linked.
    Fate seemed to touch the choice from the beginning. On June 21, 1988, as the Austin couple arrived in Broken Arrow to meet Susan, she went into labor.
    Judith was present in the delivery room as the black-haired, blue-eyed, 8 pound, 13 1/2 ounce baby boy entered the world at 6:12 p.m.
    Susan kept Christopher Shawn, as she called him, for nearly a day as she made peace with her decision. Then she delivered him into the arms of his new parents, who would name him Ian Christopher August.
    The two mothers went on to build distinctly different lives.
    Susan, a nurse, married, had two sons and then divorced. In 2000, she remarried -- this time to her junior high sweetheart, Johnny Pinson. They are raising three boys. Their modest home in the small town of Drumright, Okla., where Johnny grew up and not far from Broken Arrow, is decorated with family photos and Elvis memorabilia.
    Much of the description of Ian and Judith's lives comes from Susan, acquaintances, friends and public records. Judith declined to be interviewed for this story.
Judith, a massage therapist for more than 20 years, is an instructor at The New Beginning School of Massage in Austin. A Web site for the school describes Judith as a "nurturer, enfolding people in conscious compassion." Friends say she is petite, lithe, lovely and warm.
    Judith and Dale, an artist, divorced when Ian was small. Dale now lives in Norway.
    Over the years, with the adoption agency as go-between, the two mothers and their boy exchanged letters, schoolwork, photos and gifts. In 1994, Judith and Susan cut out the agency and began to deal directly with each other.
    That November, Susan and her two young sons met 6-year-old Ian for the first time at a Dallas hotel. They went shopping, to the park and had photos made. Ian and Susan began to visit a couple times a year. Susan saw herself in her son -- from his giving nature to his bull-headedness and temper, struggles with weight and inability to make friends easily.
   
    A search for help: Susan had only an inkling of the struggles Judith was having with Ian, who by age 8 was "acting out" a lot.
    Judith put him in counseling; he began taking drugs for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and bipolar illness.
    In 1999, friends urged Judith to move to a little community in the Texas Hill Country outside Austin that seemed a perfect refuge and expression of her values: Radiance. Neighbors say the close-knit community held appeal, too, as an extended family for Ian, then 11.
    Radiance was founded in 1980 by practitioners of transcendental meditation interested in living "an ideal life."
    Its 35 environmentally efficient homes are nestled down a long country road among tree-dotted grassy fields that are home to deer, foxes and other wildlife. There is a common pool and, just out of sight of the homes, the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge for daily meditation and community events.
    Judith and Ian moved into a limestone and wood duplex on Concord Circle. Ian was already a loner who preferred staying inside, whiling away the hours with video and role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.
    Bill Brock and his family befriended the Augusts, and Ian joined Brock and his son on annual spring canoe trips down the Guadalupe River. Brock describes Ianas an "old soul" who was straightforward and more comfortable with adults than kids. Their conversations ran to deep topics -- God, humanity. "We didn't just talk baseball," Brock said.
    But it quickly became apparent to some neighbors that Ian was a troubled child, strong-willed and defiant. Within weeks of moving into Radiance, he led some boys in peeing on the community mailbox.
    Most neighbors felt sorry for him and for Judith, and reached out to help -- only to have such problems with Ian that he would end up banned from their homes. Ian seemed intent on destroying the very thing many say he longed for: to be part of their families. His antics were the subject of a community meeting that fall.
    Roger Aker, who also lives in Radiance, said Judith once told him that Ian didn't like to be corrected. "He had established a pattern where he was defiant to any authority," Aker said. "I was afraid of him."
    Neighbor Elena Michaelson offered to care for Ian one summer while Judith worked and taught classes. A month into it, she called the arrangement off after Ian and her son "got into a little scrape."
    "Ian was a very beautiful person, but also very troubled," Michaelson said. "Judith was an extremely conscious person who tried her best with him but was overwhelmed by him."
    At Michaelson's suggestion, Judith and Ian sought help and a supportive community at The Church of Conscious Harmony in Austin. The church is centered around contemplative prayer and the works of the spiritual theorist G. I. Gurdjieff, but borrows from whatever philosophy works to help members deepen self-knowledge, focus on positive energy and bring a consciousness of God into their daily lives.
    Among the sayings carved in paving stones leading to the church's entrance: "Life is happening in the only way it can."
    While Judith joined other adults for services in the main sanctuary, Ian spent Sundays in the teen room, decorated with an Oriental rug and sage green pillow seats, learning to meditate and explore spirituality.
    "He loved it," Michaelson said. "It was the first time he felt a part of something."
    But elsewhere, Ian's difficulties continued. At Dripping Springs Middle School, Ian had few friends.
    "He kept to himself a whole lot," said Taylor Sessions, a schoolmate. Other kids say they avoided Ian because he was "mean."
    Aaron Joseph, who hung out with Ian for about 18 months, said "the only reason [Ian] was mean to other people is they'd say things to him they shouldn't have said."
    About his weight, for instance.
    "He had a temper," acknowledges Aaron.
    Several times, Ian threatened people seriously enough that police were called -- once for vowing to kill Aaron in front of some teachers.
    He piled up in-school suspensions and referrals to the school's alternative education program, where he finished eighth grade. As the year ended, he received six months probation for making a "terroristic threat" at the school.
   Judith arranged for him to attend Katherine Anne Porter, an alternative high school in Wimberly, Texas, in the fall.
   
    Utah via New Mexico: Until then, Judith tried to keep Ian busy. There was a soccer camp in Albuquerque, N.M., and a weeklong retreat with The Church of Conscious Harmony's teen group at the Lama Foundation in Santa Fe, where Ian celebrated his 14th birthday.
    On July 5, Ian boarded a plane bound for Utah and the Skyline Journey wilderness therapy program, recommended to Judith by an educational consulting firm in Austin.
    With its infusion of American Indian concepts, it's easy to imagine why Skyline Journey appealed to Judith as she struggled with her troubled son.
    Skyline Journey, based in Nephi, is a family venture started 2 1/2 years ago by Austin Lee and Alberta Wardle and their four children. Lee Wardle, whose mother wrote the Ute dictionary, was raised on the Uintah and Ouray Indian Reservation in Eastern Utah. He worked as police chief for the Ute Indian Tribe for 6 1/2 years and a criminal investigator for the Bureau of Indian Affairs for three decades. Son Mark spent 14 1/2 years working for other outdoor therapy programs.
    Skyline targets the same youths as the rest of the troubled teen industry: kids 13 to 18 with drug, alcohol or behavioral problems. Skyline pledges to "put teens in touch with their potential" by taking them on 28- to 70-day treks in Utah's west desert.
    The teens are taught Ute words, to make medicine bags and to learn outdoor skills. They complete four booklets called "Trails" that focus on introspection. A capstone of the program is a "naming ceremony" in which a teen receives an Earth name.
    Skyline Journey costs $250 a day -- $1,750 a week or $7,000 a month. Teens receive gear, paid for by parents, that includes a sleeping bag, backpack, foam pad, tarp, cooking pot, two water bottles, camp clothing, disposable camera, spiral notebook and personal hygiene items.
    While teens can be placed in the program within as little as a day, Judith called Skyline several times -- and Mark Wardle chatted briefly with Ian once. In another call, Judith told Mark Wardle that Ian wanted a photo of him -- the only time a teen has made that request.
    When Ian received the photo, he stared at it, and according to Wardle, said, "I know him."
    "I felt I'd met him before, too," said Wardle, who at 5 feet 6 inches tall and 240 pounds shares Ian's stout build. "We had a special bond."
   
    Heat takes a toll: Utah weather forecasters predicted a week of record-breaking heat as Ian traveled into the west desert to begin a 28-day trek with Skyline Journey.
    On his enrollment application, Judith listed Ian's troubles at school, his difficulty making friends and his increasingly threatening behavior. She had tried medication, special education, church programs, counseling and karate lessons to turn him around.
    Now, she looked to Skyline Journey to help Ian develop more "harmonious" relationships, assume responsibility for his actions, gain respect for authority and recognize his self-worth.
    She listed prescription drugs he took: Depakote and Topamax for bipolar disorder and Concerta for ADHD.
    On Wednesday, the Food and Drug Administration issued a warning about the risks of hyperthermia associated with Topamax.
    In response to a question about physical limitations, Judith wrote that Ian was overweight -- at 5 feet, 4 1/2 inches tall, he weighed 200 pounds -- and, with a low heat tolerance, was "easily overheated."
    His heat intolerance was well known.
    Classmate Taylor Sessions remembers Ian wandering the halls all sweaty, his hair drenched. One summer, Ian wore a gizmo-type fan around his neck to keep himself cool.
    "He didn't want to be out in the heat at all," said neighbor Elena Michaelson. "He was pretty vocal about it."
    Said Susan: "He was not an outdoorsy person. He was a couch potato."
    On June 13, a doctor at Texas Urgent Care cleared Ian to participate in Skyline Journey's program while noting the boy was "obese" and his physical ability was "fair."
    Ian arrived July 5 at the Bear Clan camp, which included two girls and three boys and three counselors. Mark Wardle, whom the teens call Red Feather, camped with Ian's group those first few days.
    "He was hiking fine while I was there," Wardle said.
    Others in the group said Ian quickly established himself as lazy, given to lying and unenthusiastic about hiking.
    "He lies a lot but is real young, kind of big, very quiet but he is very lazy," one teen would later say of Ian. "He always tries to get out of stuff."
    On July 6, a staff counselor noted in the daily progress report that Ian's first hike was "slow. Talks a lot about how to get out of the program. Not much help around camp. Have to ask a lot to help."
    Ian's days fell into a routine: wake soon after sunrise, eat breakfast, get the poem topic of the day, break camp and hike until lunch. Then, set up camp, eat, work on his booklets and journal and finish his daily poem. The day ended with dinner, poem readings and clean up.
    Ian dreaded the hikes.
    "I barely made the hike '2' day. If I barely made it and it was only 1 mile how could I possibly make a two or three mile hike," he wrote about his July 7 trek.
    A day later, he mused about hiking "to a hotel."
    After four days with the Bear Clan, Ian still plodded along, though staff saw some improvement. He had yet to finish his first self-improvement workbook, in part because he was distracted that Wednesday by a staff change as Leigh Hale, 24, Matt Gause, 22, and an intern arrived for their weekly stint in the field.
    Hale, who declined an interview, had worked for Skyline Journey for about seven months; Gause, who could not be reached for comment, had signed on about four weeks earlier.
    That night, after a dinner of beef stew, the teens shared their poems about home. Ian had written: "Home makes me happy and so do my friends. I can't think of anymore so good bye till I write again."
    The teens were up by 7:45 a.m. on Thursday, July 11. After a breakfast of pancakes and bacon, the clan received the day's poem topic -- love -- and broke camp. They hiked 45 minutes, stopping in North Canyon.
    Record-setting heat baked Utah that day; it reached an estimated 96.6 degrees that afternoon where Bear Clan made a new camp. The staff assigned Ian to dig a latrine, which took him four tries to get right, Hale noted in the progress log.
    In the afternoon, the group hiked to some waterfalls, the effort that so exhausted Ian, according to his journal.
    That night, Hale noted that "everyone except Ian drank a lot of water." She wrote that Ian had refused to eat the last two meals because he "doesn't like what we are eating." He "doesn't do much and talks back every time he is asked to do something . . . Really slow hiker." On July 12, Bear Clan laid low during the day. Ian finished a required autobiography -- detailing his adoption, his appended family, his troubles with other kids at school. At least, Hale recorded in her log, he was eating his meals without complaining.
    A staff nurse visited the camp and checked each teen; she advised Ian to "keep drinking water." He and the other teens took two-minute showers at a portable stall. And there was a treat: Popsicles.
    That afternoon, it reached an estimated 97.6 degrees in the Marjum Pass area where the group camped. About 70 miles away in Delta, the temperature reached a record 107 degrees.
    For dinner, Bear Clan had summer sausage, cheese, crackers, an apple and milk. At dusk, the clan packed up and began hiking in order to shorten the next day's trek. They walked until it was too dark to see and then bedded down for the night.
   
    The fatal mile: The sun rose at 6:08 a.m. on July 13 and began to broil Utah. The headline on a Page 1 story in The Salt Lake Tribune promised "No Break from Heat" as weather forecasters predicted all-time highs. In North Canyon, Bear Clan breakfasted on Toasty O's cereal, slices of bread spread with peanut butter and jelly, a piece of fruit and juice.
    The clan set out for what was supposed to be a 3-mile hike around 9 a.m. -- a little later than Hale had hoped in order to avoid the heat.
    Ian hiked slower than usual on the strenuous route; he and another teen stopped every few minutes, moving at the rate of one city block an hour based on a reading from Hale's GPS unit.
    Soon, the group spread out, with the faster hikers ahead, Ian in the middle and Hale in the rear with the slowest boy.
    Ian finished his water, his supply already reduced during the previous night's hike, and began to complain of thirst. Some teens shared their water, and Hale gave him half of her quart at one point. Ian drank it in a gulp.
    The group crossed three ridges, one hill after another. Ian labored, at times stumbling. Two teens started urging him along.
    "Come on, man, you can do it," one teen told Ian, according to a witness statement taken by the Millard County Sheriff's Office.
    But as Ian crested that final hill around 11:30 a.m., after hiking 1.4 miles, all he could see before him was more of the same: up, down, up and down, an undulating landscape of sagebrush, native grasses, broken shale and scattered junipers and pinyon trees. To his right spread the Sevier Desert, empty and browned under the summer sun.
    On the ridge, Ian stood still, his body already in the process of shutting down as his blood thickened in the heat and he became delirious. One teen noted Ian didn't seem to know what was going on.
    "Come on, man." Ian didn't respond. "You can go down this hill willingly or we can put you down it," his hiking companion said.
    Gause, who had reached the crest of the next hill, watched the agitated teens as they spent approximately 20 minutes trying to get Ian moving.
    "Come on, man, who dogs it on the downhill?" one frustrated teen asked Ian.
    Ian just stood there, dazed and sweating "like a pig."
    The teen grabbed him and began pulling him along. Ian finally responded.
    "Oh, I can do it," he said.
    When Ian didn't move, the boys threatened to drag him to the next camp.
    "No, I can do it," Ian said. And then he sat down. The two teens pulled off Ian's 29-pound backpack, and Ian lay against it.
    One teen backtracked to Hale, who was about 20 yards away. She called out to him: "Ian, get your pack on and let's go."
    When Hale reached Ian, he stood briefly and then sank back down to his pack.
    "So do you need a break? Are you tired? What's the problem?" Hale asked Ian. He crossed his arms and stared at her. Hale tried to cajole Ian into moving for about 20 minutes. According to one teen's taped statement, Hale nudged Ian with her foot, shook him and slapped his face to try to rouse him from his stupor. Finally, she pulled out her radio and called Mark Wardle, who was in Delta.
    "I can't convince Ian that he needs to continue hiking," she told Wardle. "What should I do?"
    Wardle told her to check Ian's consciousness by doing a "hand drop test" -- holding his arm above his face and letting it go to see how he reacted. It flushes out fakers, Hale would say later, because a conscious person will protect the face.
    Ian's arm slipped to his side.
    "I need to know if there's something wrong," Hale said to Ian. "Respond to me, tell me your name."
    "Ian," he said.
    Hale called Wardle again. "He seems to be conscious," she reported. "I can't get him to hike. What should I do?"
    Wardle, who already had begun driving toward Marjum Pass, told Hale to pour water over Ian and move him into the shade.
    Hale beckoned to Gause to come assist her. Ian now lay on the ground, motionless, his eyes open and occasionally making contact although his breathing was "strange," a mixture of a moan and a cry.
    The counselors sat Ian up and tried to get him to drink water. It merely dribbled down his face. They poured warm water from their bottles over his head, chest and back.
    The noon sun had burned down on the dying teen for more than an hour when Gause grabbed Ian's torso and Hale held his feet and "pulled" him 10 feet to a patch of shade under a pinyon tree.
    Still convinced Ian was faking illness, the two counselors split up -- Hale running ahead to check on the rest of the clan and Gause moving 30 to 50 feet away so he could observe Ian from behind another tree.
    Gause noticed Ian's moans stopped minutes after Hale left -- proof, he figured, that Ian was acting. Gause waited about 10 minutes and then crept closer to Ian.
    As Hale made her way back to the tree, Wardle called for an update.
    "How is Ian doing?" Hale yelled over to Gause, who, figuring his cover was blown, hurried to the tree.
    Ian had stopped breathing and lacked a pulse.
    Sitting alone under the pinyon, Ian August had died.
    As Gause began CPR, Hale called Wardle for help. The 9-1-1 call came into the Millard County Sheriff's Office at 1:30 p.m.; it would take two hours for the ambulance crew to reach Ian and in a series of errors, an AirMed helicopter dispatched from Salt Lake City, would never arrive after receiving incorrect GPS coordinates and running low on fuel.
    The truth is, medical experts later concluded, it didn't matter. Only an immediate ice bath might have saved Ian.
    Judith called Susan on July 14. "Are you sitting down," she began.
    "Yes," Susan said.
    "Our son is dead," Judith told her.
   
    One boy, two views: At The Church of Conscious Harmony, a small altar sits against a wall in the teen room. It holds three wooden crosses, candles and a framed photo of Ian.
    Memories of Ian remain strong.
    One teen who was in Santa Fe with Ian in the last weeks of his life, has said Ian "will forever be my symbol for my intent to change my selfish ways."
    Each of his mothers lives with the tough choices she made with Ian's best interests at heart.
    Judith has chosen to accept Ian's death and holds Skyline Journey blameless. When a state investigator vowed to learn why Ian died, Judith told him, "We may never know the reason."
    The Church of Conscious Harmony held a memorial service for Ian on Aug. 11. When it was over, Judith gave Susan a porcelain box filled with half of Ian's ashes; now housed in a larger wooden box, it sits on a mantle over the fireplace in the Pinson's Drumright home.
    Judith's neighbors at Radiance learned only after his death that Ian had gone to Utah for wilderness therapy but understand her decision.
    "He needed real care," Elena Michaelson said.
    Most also understand Judith's decision to accept what happened to Ian in Utah as fate or karma, the work of larger forces.
    Judith "did not want to be a victim at all in the situation or blame any one. Death, even an accidental death, is not always even accidental," Michaelson said.
    She has told friends that Ian was a "great teacher" in life, forcing people to be awake, aware and conscious of their own actions. "She always looked at him like he was her gift," Michaelson said.
    In May, Judith returned to Utah with a stone tablet memorializing Ian made by members of Conscious Harmony. The tablet, along with a stone engraved with Ian's name, are buried near the tree where he died.
    But there is no peace for Susan and her husband, the whys tumbling over and over in their thoughts. Why did a criminal case against Skyline fail? Why did Skyline staff wait so long to help Ian, even if they believed he was faking his symptoms? Why didn't Judith turn to them for help?
    "We had the resources to help and the willingness," Johnny Pinson said.
    A judge's decision to dismiss criminal charges amounts to saying Ian's life "wasn't important enough to fight for," Susan said.
    The couple lacks legal standing to push the case in a civil lawsuit, so they share Ian's story with anyone who will listen.
    "I can best honor Ian by trying to make a difference by speaking out at every opportunity about programs like this and about the people that were involved," Susan said.
    The common ground Susan once shared with Judith is a chasm now.
    "She is so forgiving of Skyline Journey," Susan said. "She doesn't think they did anything wrong. There is such a difference in our feelings and our opinions.
    "We're just two different people, with very different beliefs. The bond we share is not there anymore. It died with Ian."
   -----
    Tribune staff writers Elizabeth Neff and Jacob Santini contributed to this story.
   
Cached at Google (link may not work):
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Cb ... rney&hl=en
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Cynthia

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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2004, 11:56:00 AM »
My son went to Skyline Journey on Oct.1,2002. I knew about Ian August's death prior to sending my son there. They were the highest rated in the industry. I did more research on this than anything I've had interest in before. I checked them out with many agencys in Utah. I called former students and their parents that were from my state and heard all positive feedback. I had the death explained to me by a state inspector who investagated and interviewed all the kids and staff involved. I made the choice to send him. He spent 97 days there. We flew out to get him and spent the night in the field with the group. We slept in a tent with the kids and staff, it had a wood stove in it. They treated the kids very well.
They never took things away. To punish foul language, they would have to carry a rock in their pack. My son cleaned up his mouth in 3 days. The pack had 10 rocks one day. They would hike each day to their new campsite where they would find their food and water and been waiting for them. The tent and stove would be waiting there too. They would locate their next site with a GSP unit that the foreman of the day would lead them to. They were rewarded with candy and soda for getting schoolwork, ect done on time, or for acts of kindness. The kids there were happy. They formed friendships across the country. My son wanted to go back and work for them when he finished school. This program was wonderful to and for the kids. All the parents were told that this was not a cure all and most kids needed a follow up plan when they returned home. The Wardle's are very caring people. They do not have four children involved. Only Mark who is in his 40's. He visits the kids every day but is not a counciler. He taught them how to make fire with a bow drill. My son made me a ghost bead necklace. They made capotes (jackets from blankets), hats, mittens, and drums. They were taught respest and pride, something so many teens have lost. Please don't condem these wonderful people who have helped so many kids get their lives on track. Yes, Ian August's death was a horrible thing. He was cleared be a doctor prior to going to Skyline as was my son. A form needed to be filled out by the DR. and the exam needed to be less than 30 days old. Who is at fault here? We may never know....Also, The Wardle home for girls is not related. Any questions, I'll be happy to reply providing I am not called names and insulted. I will not reply to and nonsence.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2004, 05:22:00 PM »
Sounds just wonderful. Unless, of course, you're a kid dying of heat exhaustion and no one will believe you.

What the hell though, right? Even Joseph Goebels was said to have been a wonderfully caring and attentive father.

If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2004, 06:33:00 PM »
Liashram,
 Welcome. I?m truly glad that your son did not become a casualty of wilderness ?therapy?. It?s also cool that he learned some valuable skills, like starting a fire from a bow drill- something parents could teach in their backyards or on camping trips with their kids. And making useful things like jackets and mittens. Those do seem to be some of the more positive aspects of a program.
And yes, I have some questions.

You had ?the death? explained to you by a state inspector? Who was that? What were you told?

***We flew out to get him and spent the night in the field with the group. We slept in a tent with the kids and staff, it had a wood stove in it.

Did the parents of the other participants sleep in the tent with you, the hikers and counselors?

***To punish foul language, they would have to carry a rock in their pack. My son cleaned up his mouth in 3 days. The pack had 10 rocks one day.

How much did your son?s pack weigh when it was loaded down with 10 rocks? Did it exceed the maximum allowed weight?  Regs state that packs: shall not exceed 20 percent of the consumer's body weight. If the consumer is required to carry other items, the total of all weight carried shall not exceed 30% of the consumer's body weight.

***They would hike each day to their new campsite where they would find their food and water and been waiting for them.

Was your son in possession of water at all times? Did he ever run out before reaching the next drop shipment?  Regs require 6 quarts per day. How long were the hikes? How many quarts did your son carry in his pack, along with the rocks and other supplies? Did he receive electrolyte replacement? Did your son receive 3,000 calorie per day? And an additional 30-100% more calories when hiking and in cold weather?  Did he take a multiple vitamin daily?

***They were rewarded with candy and soda for getting schoolwork, ect done on time, or for acts of kindness.

Rewarding children with candy and sodas is controversial, but I don?t have time or the inclination to go there just now. I am aware that Ian received a popsicle the night before he died. That was sweet and all, but it doesn?t make up for the  negligence that occurred the following day.

***They do not have four children involved. Only Mark who is in his 40's. He visits the kids every day but is not a counciler.

This article states that, ?All of their children are involved in Skyline Journey with them.? Do you know better than Lee Wardle, who provided that information?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np02.html

***Please don't condem these wonderful people who have helped so many kids get their lives on track.

I?m sure that the Wardles are fine people. Good people make terrible mistakes everyday. Those mistakes are often considered criminal. I think they should be thanking their lucky stars that none of them are serving prison sentences. Some very good people are in prison, as we speak, for much lesser, non-violent crimes.

***Yes, Ian August's death was a horrible thing.

Yes it was a horrible thing. Ian and others like him are but guinea pigs in the experimental field of youth wilderness therapy. Their lives are put at risk while counselors, program owners, and licensing officials fumble around; figuring out what works and what doesn?t. We can only hope they are learning, and the same mistakes will not be repeated. Regulations will never protect against human error whether ignorance or malic. There is absolutely no reason these kids need to be hiked that far out in the wilderness. It is ridiculous and should not be allowed.  There have been 29 deaths, 45 if you include boot camps. This is unconscionable, particularly when there are certainly other therapeutic options available that don?t include the risk of death.

***He was cleared be a doctor prior to going to Skyline as was my son.

Did you not read or are you choosing to ignore that it was determined that Ian?s doctor was not fully advised of the rigorous nature of the program?

***Who is at fault here? We may never know.

I won?t let that thought go without commenting that some of us absolutely know who made mistakes that day. Ian knows too, but unfortunately is no longer with us and can not recount the events leading up to his death. We must depend on others accounts, which are damning, in and of themselves.

***Also, The Wardle home for girls is not related.

I could be mistaken, but I don?t recall anyone saying that the home for girls was related to Skyline Journey, except that one of the Wardle kids was running it.

***Any questions

Yes. I?d like for you to read Brooke Adams? account of the event that took place that day. Insert your son's name in place of Ian's, and answer how it makes you feel. If you see any neglect. Pay particularly close attention to the way Ian was spoken to while he was dying. Does the manner in which his counselors treated him or allowed the other participants to treat him sound therapeutic to you? Given your comment regarding being ?called names and insulted?- I can only imagine that you will find it rude, thoughtless, cruel, and the antithesis of therapeutic, if you are honest.
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Offline Cynthia

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« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2004, 11:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-07-26 15:33:00, Deborah wrote:

"Liashram,

 Welcome. I?m truly glad that your son did not become a casualty of wilderness ?therapy?. It?s also cool that he learned some valuable skills, like starting a fire from a bow drill- something parents could teach in their backyards or on camping trips with their kids. And making useful things like jackets and mittens. Those do seem to be some of the more positive aspects of a program.

And yes, I have some questions.



You had ?the death? explained to you by a state inspector? Who was that? What were you told?

****His name is Kelly Husbands. He is in the dept. of licencing. He told me pretty much what the article said. He also spoke to the Mom and understood the child to be combative.

***We flew out to get him and spent the night in the field with the group. We slept in a tent with the kids and staff, it had a wood stove in it.



Did the parents of the other participants sleep in the tent with you, the hikers and counselors?

****Only the parents who are picking up their child sleep there if they choose to. We wanted to spend the day and night so we could be more in touch with the program's operation and what our son had done while he was there. All campers and staff slept together.

***To punish foul language, they would have to carry a rock in their pack. My son cleaned up his mouth in 3 days. The pack had 10 rocks one day.



How much did your son?s pack weigh when it was loaded down with 10 rocks? Did it exceed the maximum allowed weight?  Regs state that packs: shall not exceed 20 percent of the consumer's body weight. If the consumer is required to carry other items, the total of all weight carried shall not exceed 30% of the consumer's body weight.                                          ****I cannot answer this one. I was told about it on the phone shortly after he arrived. I called to check on him every two days.



***They would hike each day to their new campsite where they would find their food and water and been waiting for them.



Was your son in possession of water at all times? Did he ever run out before reaching the next drop shipment?  Regs require 6 quarts per day. How long were the hikes? How many quarts did your son carry in his pack, along with the rocks and other supplies? Did he receive electrolyte replacement? Did your son receive 3,000 calorie per day? And an additional 30-100% more calories when hiking and in cold weather?  Did he take a multiple vitamin daily?

****The kids had two quarts upon departure, and had to consume one QT prior to hiking. They hiked 2-5 miles each day. Their menu was posted on the internet each day. The calories were posted too, although not being a nutritionist, I can't swear to the accuracy. He had a vitamin each day and I do not know about the electrolyte replacement. I am unaware of this. They were given plenty of food.

***They were rewarded with candy and soda for getting schoolwork, ect done on time, or for acts of kindness.

 ****This was not an earned reward, always a suprise. It was given to all.

Rewarding children with candy and sodas is controversial, but I don?t have time or the inclination to go there just now. I am aware that Ian received a popsicle the night before he died. That was sweet and all, but it doesn?t make up for the  negligence that occurred the following day.



***They do not have four children involved. Only Mark who is in his 40's. He visits the kids every day but is not a counciler.



This article states that, ?All of their children are involved in Skyline Journey with them.? Do you know better than Lee Wardle, who provided that information?*****WHY THE SARCASM?

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np02.html

****I know for a FACT that Mark is the only child of Lee & Alberta that was involved in the daily operations. Another son that lives in Japan has financial involvement.

***Please don't condem these wonderful people who have helped so many kids get their lives on track.



I?m sure that the Wardles are fine people. Good people make terrible mistakes everyday. Those mistakes are often considered criminal. I think they should be thanking their lucky stars that none of them are serving prison sentences. Some very good people are in prison, as we speak, for much lesser, non-violent crimes.



***Yes, Ian August's death was a horrible thing.



Yes it was a horrible thing. Ian and others like him are but guinea pigs in the experimental field of youth wilderness therapy. Their lives are put at risk while counselors, program owners, and licensing officials fumble around; figuring out what works and what doesn?t. We can only hope they are learning, and the same mistakes will not be repeated. Regulations will never protect against human error whether ignorance or malic. There is absolutely no reason these kids need to be hiked that far out in the wilderness. It is ridiculous and should not be allowed.  There have been 29 deaths, 45 if you include boot camps. This is unconscionable, particularly when there are certainly other therapeutic options available that don?t include the risk of death.



***He was cleared be a doctor prior to going to Skyline as was my son.



Did you not read or are you choosing to ignore that it was determined that Ian?s doctor was not fully advised of the rigorous nature of the program?

****I did read this and I do not believe it. I had to fill out a medical history and it stated that there would be hiking up to several miles daily. Did his DR miss something? Did Mom miss something? I was fully informed about hiking. Reporters constantly make errors(such as 4 wardle children all involved)

***Who is at fault here? We may never know.



I won?t let that thought go without commenting that some of us absolutely know who made mistakes that day. Ian knows too, but unfortunately is no longer with us and can not recount the events leading up to his death. We must depend on others accounts, which are damning, in and of themselves.



***Also, The Wardle home for girls is not related.



I could be mistaken, but I don?t recall anyone saying that the home for girls was related to Skyline Journey, except that one of the Wardle kids was running it.****  I may have read this on another posting.



***Any questions



Yes. I?d like for you to read Brooke Adams? account of the event that took place that day. Insert your son's name in place of Ian's, and answer how it makes you feel. If you see any neglect. Pay particularly close attention to the way Ian was spoken to while he was dying. Does the manner in which his counselors treated him or allowed the other participants to treat him sound therapeutic to you? Given your comment regarding being ?called names and insulted?- I can only imagine that you will find it rude, thoughtless, cruel, and the antithesis of therapeutic, if you are honest.

****The other kids were aggeravated because he was holding them back. Had they known he wrer truly ill, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened.

"****I did what you suggested and it is painful. I am very fortunate this was not my son. I think my reason for accepting his death is because his mom did. His real Mom. The one that lived with him and watched him grow, suffer and cause her pain as well as himself.(Please forgive me for speaking about him in a negitive manner, I mean no disrespect) He was difficult, defiant, angry boy. I had one too. Only mine was not angry. If you could walk in our shoes for just a short time, you could better understand the daily pain involved,and how we so desperatly want to help our child. This seemed like my only option.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2004, 05:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-07-26 20:41:00, Llahsram wrote:

****The other kids were aggeravated because he was holding them back. Had they known he wrer truly ill, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened.

There's a damned good reason why all those kids and whatever adults were around failed to notice that this kid was actually very, very ill for a couple of days. And here it is:

Quote
"****I did what you suggested and it is painful. I am very fortunate this was not my son. I think my reason for accepting his death is because his mom did. His real Mom. The one that lived with him and watched him grow, suffer and cause her pain as well as himself.(Please forgive me for speaking about him in a negitive manner, I mean no disrespect) He was difficult, defiant, angry boy. I had one too. Only mine was not angry. If you could walk in our shoes for just a short time, you could better understand the daily pain involved,and how we so desperatly want to help our child. This seemed like my only option.


You seem to view yourself, the adult in the relationship, the one w/ all the power--legal, financial, emotional, intellectual, etc.--as a victim????? Oh, you poor, poor dear! Having to suffer through your child's mood swings and such!

Having read this, I'm inclined to believe that you wouldn't notice if your son were currently bug all crazy from his experience. So long as he says "Yes Ma'am!" and complies w/ your every directive, I think you're probably just fine w/ letting him suffer in quiet solitude.

Kid, if you read this, remember that legal minority expires quicker than you can imagine and you have your whole life to build the authentic, reliable relationships you need.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.

http://stopsembler.org/' target='_new'>James Lloyd

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2004, 10:18:00 PM »
Liasham,

I?m imagining that Kelly Husbands didn?t disclose to you, his personal relationship with Wardle.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10

Husbands should have recused himself in this case, instead of continuing to defend and promote his friend?s program. Stettler, the Lic Dir later removed him due to the obvious conflict of interest. What I don?t know for sure is if he was removed from the case before or after he spoke to you when your son was placed there Oct 1. Perhaps Cherish Wisdom can clarify what date Husbands was removed.

From the very beginning, Stettler and Husbands ever action appeared to be in defense of SJ. Here's a sampling of the damage-control efforts that started immediately. Numerous parties were involved.

7/15/02 SJ officials declined to comment to the press until the state had completed their investigation, yet the very same, Lee Wardle sent a press release to Struggling Teens (Industry promotional website), stating that Kelly Husbands had found that SJ ?has complied with all state regulations, and can find no wrong doing.?  
And, that Ian had just finished his third quart of water when he stopped hiking. Yet it was later reported that, ?Ian finished his water, his supply already reduced during the previous night's hike, and began to complain of thirst. Some teens shared their water, and Hale gave him half of her quart at one point. Ian drank it in a gulp.?  
Stettler stated that the temperature was 90-95 and they were hiking ?above 8,000 ft?.

7/16/02 Stettler claims that he knew SJ was in compliance with regs regarding temperature, because ?counselors carry thermometers?. Reported no initial indication that SJ violated regs or failed to bring enough water. Now states that they were hiking at 7,000 feet where the air is cooler. Later the Salt Lake Tribune reported the elevation of Marjum Pass to be 6,400 ft.
Stettler claims that his inspector recorded 95* at the site on Monday at 1:30. Note: It was 11* cooler that day.
In another article Mark Wardle blamed Ian?s death on the slow response time by emergency workers, stating it should have only taken 40 minutes.
The sheriff rebutted saying,  ?The group was 70 miles from Delta, 25-30 of those miles are reached first by a gravel road, then a ?two-wheel-track kind of a road? and finally by a hike of one to two miles.?
Wardle also tried to accuse the rescue workers of not ?trusting? his directions. In fact, ?Rescuers split into two groups, one following Wardle?s directions to a road that proved impassable and the other hiking to Ian with a handheld GPS unit. The hikers reached him first and, on their arrival, pronounced him dead.

7/17/02 Stettler: said he knew "for sure" that the temperature was under 95 degrees DURING the hike because program officials carried thermometers with them. He obviously didn?t check with other sources, the rescuers logged 106* at the site when they arrived shortly after 2pm.
He also stated that SJ responded correctly to Ian?s situation and that he was waiting for an official cause of death and a completed police report before making a determination about possible violations.
Stettler excused the fact that Ian?s group continued to hike when he stopped by saying it was not a violation because "the individual who couldn't continue wasn't forced to." However, the state regulation reads: "Hiking shall not exceed the physical capability of the weakest member of the group. If a [youth] cannot or will not hike, the group shall not continue." In fact, the slowest hiker proved to be a boy with ?high-functioning autism?.
SJ also reported that, the EMT counselor stayed with Ian and a tarp was provided for shade. Court testimony would later reveal this to be a lie- No tarp, and the counselor did not stay with him.

7/19/02 Mark Wardle reports that the temperature was ?under 95?.
Lee Wardle claimed that Ian sat under a tree for two hours, then collapsed.
Court testimony would later reveal this to be a lie. He was made to sit in the sun for over an hour and then propped against a pinion tree.

7/21/02 Stettler sent another (?) investigator to re-examine and re-interview.
?When the county filed charges we said, ?Crud, there?s got to be something.?? Wondered whether his investigators had been too focused on the temperature at the scene. Once charges were filed, Stettler redirected them to refocus on other potential violations of state rules.

7/23/02 Jeff Johnson (Adm Dir) sends another press release to Struggling Teens stating that temp was less than 90*. Even though staff logged 90* at 8:30.  He states that deputies had confirmed temp was less than 90*, after contacting the US Meteorological Service. Temp at 11:30 at the altitude (6,800 ft)- 85-86*.  The Sheriff?s office  disputed this on 9/20 stating that they believed the temp was above 95*. Still claims that Ian sat in the shade when he quit hiking.  And that the medical examiner had found no observable cause of death.
Simultaneously, several letters of support are posted at Struggling Teens.

8/5/02 Lee Wardle sent a statement to Struggling Teens saying that the state had completed a thorough investigation couldn?t find any violations of regs, company rules, or lack of common sense on the part of SJ. Still operating and ?appreciate the referrals that are coming from all sources?.
Husbands wrote in his final report that "there is no credible evidence or statement that indicates that Skyline Journey was out of compliance with Office of Licensing rules or their own policies in the death of Ian August. There is also no evidence that Ian was abused or that his needs were not met by the staff in the field."

8/8/2002 Lon posts a glowing visit report at Struggling Teens.

9/21/02 DA charges Wardle and Hale with child-abuse homicide.

10/11/02 Just 10 days after your son arrived at SJ, the DHS issued a press release.
Reinvestigation found 4 violations:
1)Hike exceeded the physical capabilities of the weakest member
2) Improper Admissions Screening- should have considered his medical history (overheating)
3) Doctor?s form didn?t describe the physical demands or environment
4) Didn?t treat effects of heat illness in a timely or reasonable manner.
DHS will revoke license on 25 Oct.
http://www.dhs.utah.gov/pdf/Skyline%20Revoked.pdf

10/12/02 Stettler states that he believes Ian sat in sun for up to an hour after showing signs.

12/2002 The DHS posts an advertisement/endorsment for wilderness programs on their website.

1/3/03 Defense Attorney: Contends it was less than 95*. Continues to say that If the case proceeds to trial, gauging an EXACT temperature will be a central issue.  Impossible.  Their own employee logged 90* at 8:30 and rescuers logged 106* just after 2pm.

1/7/03 At the preliminary hearing (the lone defense witness) Kelly Husbands testified before Judge Eyre, despite the fact that he was removed from the case when it was discovered that he and Wardle attended the same LDS church ward. Husbands told the court that by his ?rough estimation? it would have been about 88* degrees at 12:30 on the day Ian died. Among other things, two days after Ian died, Husbands hung a pocket thermometer in a tree at a similar elevation. An impossibility- the counselor logged 90* at 8:30.
Husbands told the judge that SJ was run better than most programs.
Also that he had found SJ had a single violation related to the death-  failing to provide August's Texas doctor with an adequate description of the environment and the program's physical demands. [Why didn't the rep who found the 4 violations testify????] Husbands added that all the participants were given adequate food and water.

2/04/03 Judge Eyre dropped charges. Although the DA mentioned during the hearing that the state was trying to revoke the program's license based on three other alleged violations, the judge wrote:
"Perhaps nothing in the state's allegations is more glaringly absent than the lack of evidence that [Wardle] had failed to comply with the state Office of Licensing regulations governing youth wilderness programs. Indeed, the evidence presented to the court only serves to establish that Skyline Journey took many more precautions than those provided in similar youth programs."
In a recent interview with The Salt Lake Tribune, Eyre said he did not think Skyline had "done things that would put a heavy burden on these youths to the point you would say it was reckless."
The judge cited the fact that employees had some training, participants were given "plenty of water," and that the group only hiked a short distance. In his ruling, Eyre wrote the hikes were "never of a greater distance than 1.26 miles," although Husbands' report, introduced at the hearing, said Ian hiked about 1.4 miles of a planned three-mile hike on the day he died.
Although Ian was overweight, he did get clearance from a doctor, Eyre said. And the state did not provide proof of the exact temperature, the judge said.
"I've had a lot of experience with troubled youths, and I know that parents when they have a child that is clearly self-destructive, they will do about anything to help them," said Eyre, a former Juab County attorney. "They looked like they were running a good program. They had a satellite phone, two radios, immediate contact with their home base. It clearly was an isolated location, and it took a long time for medical assistance, but they had trained individuals."

Justice was not served.

Kelly Husbands could have told you that Ian?s doctor was not informed properly about the program. That's what he testified to. I feel certain that they made some changes in that procedure after Ian?s death. Perhaps your form was more detailed.

You said: Reporters constantly make errors(such as 4 wardle children all involved)
A reporter didn?t say that, Lee Wardle did.

You said: The other kids were aggeravated because he was holding them back. Had they known he wrer truly ill, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened.

But, haranguing and humiliating him would have been okay if he hadn?t been dying? How might those teens have felt afterward? The regulations say that the group is STOP if anyone can't continue. Now that presents a problem when you're out of water and behind schedule.

And, as for Ian being ?combative?. I have never heard that. Considering the source, I?d have to question that. There were reports of him making ?terrorist threats?. But if that was the case, should he have been with other teens in a wilderness program which is designed to provoked anger?

And I have walked in your shoes. I chose a different path.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Cynthia

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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2004, 12:40:00 AM »
I was not looking for an arguement. I was just stating about how much they had helped our family. Kelly Husbands did tell me that he knew the Wardle's personally, although he did not indicate that they were friends (if they are?). Also the lies about the temp,I had no way of knowing about. That came out after my son departed. It is sad when you call a government agency and do not get the truth. How could I have known? The kids I spoke to liked the program. I made my decision based on the facts I obtained. We are lucky to have had a positive learning experience with no harm done. You said you have been in my shoes and chose to take a different path, would you mind sharing that with me? I was quite desparate at the time and needed a place that my son couldn't run away from. You seem much more informed in this area than I. I knew nothing about any programs for kids prior to my need. Thanks
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2004, 12:48:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-07-27 21:40:00, Llahsram wrote:

needed a place that my son couldn't run away from.


A private prison, in other words? Ok, then I guess you got what you paid for and should be very happy. Make no mistake about it, nobody--not one human soul who ever lived--enjoys being imprisoned. Never in a million years will any human being like being imprisoned. One of the first things you learn in the Program is to never, ever say a negative thing about the Program.

They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=18' target='_new'>Michael More

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Offline Cynthia

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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2004, 01:12:00 AM »
If that is how you want to read into this, be my guest. He was headed for prison anyway. He was there two years ago and he still speaks fondly of it. Sorry I can't slam this for you, I am just speaking the truth.
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« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2004, 01:34:00 AM »
I've got two teenage girls.  One has given me pure hell over the last few years.  Speaking as I can from BOTH sides of the fence, let me say that all the "program" did for me was delay the natural learning process.  My parents were terrified, just like you and just like I have been.  They were fed the same deadinsaneorinjail mantra that's spit out by all of programs.  I acted like a good little girl when I was in there and for a while after I got out, but it didn't last.  The lessons I "learned" were not my own.  They had been forced upon me.  For a while I was a true believer, helped me, must have, I was headed for death or jail!!!!! :eek:   My parents attempt to "help" me nearly killed me all these years later.  The lasting effects of being imprisoned and forced to "conform" are devastating and usually do not show up for years after.  

My oldest daughter has given me more sleepless nights than I care to think about, but I am NOT going to alter her journey.  We all have our own.  All being in the program did was delay all those lessons I was supposed to be learning naturally.  Our children are not "ours" to control or mold into what we want.  We all want them to be happy, we all have our own idea about what it takes to get there.  IMO, denying them the opportunity to learn those lessons when they are supposed to will only force them to do it later in life when it is HIGHLY inappropriate and it ends up being done in small increments so the learning process is dragged out for years, decades sometimes.  People don't realize the full devastation of these places until later.  When your kid first gets out of course[/b] you, and they are happier....they're behaving like good little children are supposed to aren't they??  It's only later that the damage starts to show.  

PTSD....look around these forums.  It runs rampant.

P.S.  the daughter I speak of is now in nursing school doing pretty well.  With guidance, not force, she came around and realized most of what I was trying to teach her.  And I'm telling you...letting go and leaving her to her own path was one of the hardest things I have EVER done...bar none.

If you think about why you hate me, you might find that it's not me.
--Antigen

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2004, 01:11:00 PM »
Llahsram,
I imagine that you don't consider the humiliation and verbal attacks abusive, based on another comment you posted at Fornits describing the 'therapy' your son is currently receiving at elan:

They put the offender in the front of the room and all the kids scream, swear and say degrading things to them. I guess it is to deter you from doing bad things in the first place. I don't like it, I think it is horrible. So mabe this is why they do it. It would keep me in line, I would cry like a baby!

It would only feel sad if it were being done while your son was dying? That is not therapy. You have made numerous comments about your aversion to people 'attacking' you here and using foul language. How does it feel? I hope you do notice the double standard? Perhaps folks here are trying to "deter" you from speaking positively about a program that hurt them. Just a thought.

Regarding the path I chose- Do a search for posts under my name. I don't have time to look that up for you. I would not choose to put my son in an evironment that breeds hostility or total submission. I don't consider that therapy.

And yes, it's a damn shame that parents don't get accurate information from government officials.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700