Author Topic: What people "know" to be true.  (Read 2280 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
What people "know" to be true.
« on: October 12, 2003, 03:12:00 PM »
Quote
In another thread, Carey wrote:
I think they knew their child was going to be deprived of the essential love and support that ALL people, big and small, need to develope both emotionally and physically. They knew all of this...


Think about this for a moment. What do parents, or anyone for that matter, really "know"? Do most people really understand the permanent damage that can happen in a child from temporary withdrawal of affection, "strict discipline" and isolation? I don't think so. I don't think any newcomer to any of these programs understands it. We all thought we could tough it out or fight or some damned thing.

But what about what the parents "know" about their kids' problems that makes them think they need this kind of radical intervention? Just browse through any of the troubled teen recruiting material offered by any of these Synanon based programs, whether under the WWASP banner or not. They'll tell you that if your daughter is bitchy sometimes, if she makes new friends, if she's somewhat more secretive and jealous over her privacy than she was when she was 10, if she changes the way she dresses and sometimes makes mistakes in character assessment and judgement, that she may well be carrying on a secret double life as a crack whore!!!!

Now, in retrospect, if you take the time to think critically about what they're saying here, it's just as rediculous as believing that if a black cat crosses your path, something bad will happen or that a red tinge accross the moon is a sure sign of coming war. These are just some of the normal, though unpleasant, throws of growing up.

But if you turn to Oprah, she'll reenforce the message for you. If you ask the DARE cop or the school shrink, they'll tell you the same. As a parent, you certainly can't deny the 'evidence'. Indeed, the girl is showing all the 'signs'. But it's very rare to come accross any critical thought or discussion about the conclusions that we draw from this 'evidence'.

But think of some of the other rediculous things that we, as a society, have believed. For example, in the event of nuclear attack, you will be safe and sound if you go into your basement, tuck your head between your legs and develop a liking for canned potatos and dry milk. If it's chemical or biological, then the thing to do is to seal yourself into a small room with about 5 other people to help you exhaust all available oxygen and then see if you can remain concious longer than the guy sealed into the radio broadcast booth.

Human beings are superstitious creatures who crave some higher authority for validation. I don't know exactly when or how it happened, but our society has drawn a rather arbitrary line in the sand wrt what is acceptable behavior for your children. Drugs R BAD, M'khay? Unless the school shrink thinks you're a little high strung. Even then, the same good drug becomes a bad drug if the kid in question would rather have the $5 he can get by selling it to a classmate.

Think of all the things that we used to think of as normal kid behavior but we now view as proof positive of a dire problem. Toiletpapering the teacher's house on Halloween? Threatenign hate crime. Schoolyard brawl among young boys? Antisocial behavior, possible pathology! Playing hookie? What sort of heinous crime are they plotting or committing while not under supervision! Sampling Dad's wet bar? Sure sign of addiction, or will be if we don't nip it in the bud!

It's amazing that any of these kids make it through the gauntlet to adulthood without being condemned as some sort of deviant or criminal!

When my daughter was around 15, she cut class with another girl to go and oggle the cute soccer boys at the private school a block away. When I was a kid, that would have gotten me dragged to the principal's office by the ear or elbow, a good talking to, detention, an essay assignment and a zero for the day. Knowing that, I never tried it. But that was the paradigm of the day.

But that's not what they do today, folks. Instead, the school resource officer (same armed officer who delivered the DARE program) tracked the girls down, handcuffed them!, solicited a tresspassing complaint from the private school, paraded the girls right past all of their school-mates in cuffs while threatening to take them downtown to the Juvenile Intervention Facility, where they could be assessed by a social worker for needed services and, if I complied with their recomendations, maybe they'd let me take her home.

That was the last day of my daughter's inclusion in the "good kids" crowd. From that day forward, there were the bad kids who now thought she was tough as hell and the good kids, her former friends, who were afraid to be seen spending too much time with her for fear of guilt by association.

Now, I'm not blaming all of my choices from that day forward or all of my daughter's on that one incident. But it is a good example of how the aleged adults in our society seem to have lost all sense and reason when it comes to raising kids. In fact, I did my level best to explain the mind fuck to my daughter at the time, to help her see through it, to make her understand that the cop was just messing with her mind to try and scare her. And she did get it, to some extent. And she did retain one very close friend from the "good kids" crowd for a number of years. But that poor girl did pay the price with her reputation.

Things have changed, but it's not the kids who are different. It's the adults.

A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.

--A Patriot

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2003, 03:32:00 PM »
it is a tough time to be a kid for sure.

when I was growing up if you got caught with beer in your car- they would tell you to pour it out and go home - these days you have a record.

we expect much more from our kids yet there are so many more wierd influences out there..scarier drugs, demonic and occultic practices, busy parents.

it does make me wonder that with this many attacks on this generation ....they may be slated for something great...the enemy has certainly taken out some of our best and brightest through these programs- they will never fufill their God given assignments and some have described themselves as souless after their experiences...who would want to steal their souls...

there is only 1 roaring lion slinking around seeking to steal, kill and destroy...yet his fallen angels influence the flesh of the willing to do his work as well...

I feel for this generation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2003, 04:02:00 PM »
I don't think there's so much of scarier influences or scarier drugs about these days. All the drugs are essentially either the same as they ever were or they're synthetic knock offs of the natural ones.

There have always been occult influences. Your definition of occult vs. legitimate religion depends almost entirely on where and when you were born and raised.

The biggest differences I see in the state of things for kids today are that we're making them work much harder to walk a much narrower line and that there are fewer opportunities for them in the path we leave open to them.

Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.

--Scott Tillinghast

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2003, 04:46:00 PM »
Quote
But it is a good example of how the aleged adults in our society seem to have lost all sense and reason when it comes to raising kids


It is not only that they have lost all sense and reason but an overwhelming need to be in control.  And...not just a need to be in control... but a need to be in control of others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2003, 04:46:00 PM »
that was me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2003, 07:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-12 13:46:00, Carey wrote:

"
Quote
But it is a good example of how the aleged adults in our society seem to have lost all sense and reason when it comes to raising kids



It is not only that they have lost all sense and reason but an overwhelming need to be in control.  And...not just a need to be in control... but a need to be in control of others.  
"


Yeah, I agree. And I'm trying to explain that it's not just the program parents or just program staff. It's widespread, largely accepted philosophy. It's frightening as hell to me. Program people generally are the worst cases. But it's not asif they don't have the full blessing and support of our institutions and public opinion. They do.

The more there are of us who start to wake up and see through this the less hostile a return to sanity will be. I'm not being expansive when I say that, if liberty and civility prevail, life in this country will be very like life in West Germany after the war. Damned near everyone can be counted complicit by silence. If that is how we define 'the enemy' then it's a lost cause, we're hopelessly outnumbered.

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2003, 07:41:00 PM »
Oh, and the most messed up thing about the hookey story above? THIS is what they call enligtened policy! They're not punishing the kids like a bunch of grouchy old Conservatives, no! They're intervening like good Liberals! They're not being mean, they're helping!! Ask any of them and be ready to face the wall and spread `em if you're talking to the DARE cop! They sometimes get a little touchy when people suggest that they might be making a mistake.

Now, I would DAMND sure rather appeal to a DARE cop's sense of reason and fairness through pursuasion and dialog than to insult them and face them as an enemy. People do come around, ya know? Sombody shot Hitler, and it wan't any of the Allied Forces.

 

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.

--Joseph Goebbels

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2003, 08:23:00 PM »
Ya know Ginger, I have not totally given up on society...yet. :smile: I will say that the school system here, along with all of the various other support services that Louisiana has, have been great to my boys.  We had a rough time with the first judge who was invovled in our case, but she finally stepped aside due to her age and lack of knowledge where family matters are concerned and handed it over to another.  This second judge has been a Godsend, a mentor for the boys and very good and understanding about all they have been through.  My boys are beginning to beleive in themselves again, which is sooooo good!  I guess what I am trying to say, is that while times have changed there still are alot of GOOD people out there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2003, 09:34:00 PM »
"I guess what I am trying to say, is that while times have changed there still are alot of GOOD people out there."

Oh, I haven't given up either! In fact I'm hanging a lot of my hopes on the belief that there enough of the good aspirations among us to just overwhelm the bad aspirations. What I'm saying is that if you look very closely into the histories of the coolest people you know, you'll very likely find some astounding lapses of reason, good judgement and even compassion.

Did you tearfully support bombing Bahgdad the rest of the way back to the 15th Century? A lot of people have died or lost everything because a lot of other people got sold on a bill of goods.

"If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"-- Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
--Edmund Burke

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Carey

  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2003, 09:58:00 PM »
Ginger, did you ever see the movie Escape from New York?  I think they should put all of the evil people in this world on an island and let them fin for themselves, sorta like they did in that movie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2003, 01:25:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-12 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
But it is a good example of how the aleged adults in our society seem to have lost all sense and reason when it comes to raising kids



It is not only that they have lost all sense and reason but an overwhelming need to be in control.  And...not just a need to be in control... but a need to be in control of others.  




Most parents don't admit their child to a program to be in control.  They've lost all control and look for short term fixes - when that doesn't work, they admit to the results-based programs that there is no set time limit.  Some realize their role in the breakdown, some don't.  In wwasps the parents are given tons of opportunities to do their own "work" - can't make them do it if they don't think they had any role in the breakdown.  And, like you said, some parents need to be in control - maybe by sending a clear message to their child they aren't going to lower their standards to fit their teens behaviors - some need to be in control of their teen's behavior even when they are away.  No freaking wonder you hear of teens coming home and crashing!  They have learned to be in control of themselves and upon returning home, their parents don't trust them to do it "right."  Sad situation, then they get shipped off again and the parents blame the program for what happened.  

These kids are not loved deprived or isolated in many ways.  Yes, they are not being hugged by mommy and daddy, but they are being hugged by the staff, loved by the staff and as many have said, they had the best most honest friends they ever had while in the program.  They were understood by someone, or many, for the first time in their lives.  

Mommy and daddy need work - and many do - but they think it's over when their child comes home.  It really is just beginning as a family.  Why do so many parents expect the program to FIX their family.  The family must choose to let go of what hasn't worked in the past, find a way to make it work and continue using that mindset once they are home.  Healthy - they must maintain the "exercise and vitamins" for a lifetime and make a conscious choice to respect boundaries and each other's differences.  It ain't over on graduation day.  WWASP has aftercare workshops for some refreshers if needed and also the coaching is a way to keep the communication going in a healthy direction.  

What I know to be true is that I don't know everything! :razz:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2003, 02:06:00 AM »
No, Program Parent, the truth is you don't know anything except how to play follow the leader.  Big deal, I learned that in grade school.

 :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2003, 02:12:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-13 23:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No, Program Parent, the truth is you don't know anything except how to play follow the leader.  Big deal, I learned that in grade school.



 :rofl: "


And what grade are you in now?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What people "know" to be true.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2003, 02:26:00 AM »
Quote

On 2003-10-13 23:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote


On 2003-10-13 23:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


"No, Program Parent, the truth is you don't know anything except how to play follow the leader.  Big deal, I learned that in grade school.





 ::bigsmilebounce::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »