The smoking gun - do survivors lie?

[DannyB II]

Another derail thread created solely to tarnish survivors. It's sad really.  Specifically when it originates from someone who takes great pride in pernicious perfidy. The interesting thing is some of the people he accuses of lying are the most balls-to-the-wall straightforward people imaginable.

Jeesh, Samara, why have we not heard you complain like this when posts were being written about others. I hate to tell you but you folks are not above lying and down right manipulative reactions.

Your quote:
"The interesting thing is some of the people he accuses of lying are the most balls-to-the-wall straightforward people imaginable".

My quote:
How about this characterization, just basic garden variety folks. See, not all the drama.

[Eliscu2]

:seg:

[Shadyacres]

Shady wrote:
Making the same obtuse pigheaded argument over and over no matter what the other side says is not "highly intelligent".  And accusing other posters of molesting their own children, as I have read in Whooters posts, is not "mild mannered".  And telling all of us here, who know full well how abusive the treatment we received was, that nobody believes us because our accounts do not sound the way he thinks they should sound, how is that "mild mannered"?

Well I think you should examine yourself and find out why you do the same thing yet are strangely detached from this reality.
Shady, seriously you are no different, he has his opinions as you have yours.

The difference is my opinion is based on my own experience INSIDE one of these programs, while Whooter admits he was never in one.

 Difference Whooter is not going out of his way to lie and fabricate stories, either about the TTI or other people personally.

Are we talking about the same Whooter?

 His short comings usually are within a response better yet a defense.

I could not understand that last sentence at all so I don't know how to respond to it.  

The very title of this thread tells you how much respect he has for everyone here.  He has been pissing in this pool for years and you just stand by and let him do it?  Where are your balls?  I guess they broke you pretty good at Elan.

[Whooter]

I could not understand that last sentence at all so I don't know how to respond to it.  

The very title of this thread tells you how much respect he has for everyone here.  He has been pissing in this pool for years and you just stand by and let him do it?  Where are your balls?  I guess they broke you pretty good at Elan.

Speaking of Balls, Shadyacres.  Why do you piss and moan about me but accept all the lies said about me personally?  People say I profit from the industry, had kids who committed suicide a wife that left me etc.  The list is extensive.

People make up stories all the time and lie.  Why do you stand by and accept this if lying bothers you so much?  Could it be a double standard?

How about if I started saying you deserved to be in a program because your parents didnt want to raise their own grandchild and that you had dropped out of school and were heading for your 3rd abortion and they were tired of paying to get you out of jail?  Would that be okay? or is it only okay if the person being lied about is pro-program or holds a moderate view?

You only see what you chose to see Shady.



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[DannyB II]

Shady wrote:
Making the same obtuse pigheaded argument over and over no matter what the other side says is not "highly intelligent".  And accusing other posters of molesting their own children, as I have read in Whooters posts, is not "mild mannered".  And telling all of us here, who know full well how abusive the treatment we received was, that nobody believes us because our accounts do not sound the way he thinks they should sound, how is that "mild mannered"?

Well I think you should examine yourself and find out why you do the same thing yet are strangely detached from this reality.
Shady, seriously you are no different, he has his opinions as you have yours.

The difference is my opinion is based on my own experience INSIDE one of these programs, while Whooter admits he was never in one.

 Difference Whooter is not going out of his way to lie and fabricate stories, either about the TTI or other people personally.

Are we talking about the same Whooter?

 His short comings usually are within a response better yet a defense.

I could not understand that last sentence at all so I don't know how to respond to it.

The very title of this thread tells you how much respect he has for everyone here.  He has been pissing in this pool for years and you just stand by and let him do it?  Where are your balls?  I guess they broke you pretty good at Elan.

My last sentence refers to Whooters frustration sometimes with malicious posters who blatantly beat up other posters they see as weaker.
Short comings: (character flaws (peccadilloes) slight nuance of a larger flaw) Whooter sometimes shows these nuances in his defense, to a post.  

[RobertBruce]

My last sentence refers to Whooters frustration sometimes with malicious posters who blatantly beat up other posters they see as weaker.
Short comings: (character flaws (peccadilloes) slight nuance of a larger flaw) Whooter sometimes shows these nuances in his defense, to a post.

Yet you ignore that all Whooter does is lie about not only surivors, but about himself.

Take a look:

Here he jokes about molesting his own make believe daughter and having her killed:

by TheWho » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:52 am

"Guest" wrote:
Ignore the who. He talks about respect for privacy but regularly makes reference to his own daughter and claims he molested her. The man belongs in jail

I heard he had his daughter killed and hired someone to molest her. He is one sicko, he should be banned from posting.

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=21541&hilit=molest&start=45

We've already seen how he fabricated his daughter, why does he have a need to lie?

[RobertBruce]

Here he not only further acknowledges his sons existence and death, but makes fun of it:

Report this postReply with quoteRe: "TheWho"'s True Identity
by TheWho » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:18 am

Why did you say that, who?


Rudy Bentz is a sex offender,murderer and torturer.

Yes, I did see his resume, I think it is also on Linkedin also.


Rudy Bentz, your ally, runner of the gulags called CEDU and academy at swift river. As are YOU, through your complicity with him.

I miss those days, has anyone heard how he is doing?



Was it sad looking at the corpse of your son?

I actually couldn’t make it. I was getting a complimentary trip from Aspen. But I had it filmed, I plan to watch it this summer.


I bet you thought "great marketing opprotunity."

I am not a betting man. I saw the opportunity and the money that came in from the first obit was amazing!! Imagine how much I could make if both kids died. A parents dream!! It was a sure thing.


Your son felt such pain because of you.

I know isn’t it great!! I wish ASR would take more pictures.


You degraded and murdered him.

We all have to die someday!!! Degradation is just part of the journey.



You had him sexually abused.

I called ahead to make sure they could do it right!!


and SUVs (stripped searched) Maybe the guards fondled him extra? --they usually do.

They better have, I paid extra for that!! Did you hear that they didn’t? I would be disappointed, maybe sue... they cashed the check!!!



I bet that thought appeals to you.

Ahhhh... you know me well!!!

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27884&p=336599&hilit=sexually#p336599

[RobertBruce]

Here John creates a fake persona (lie) and ridicules and dismisses a girls report of being sexually abused in a program:

Re: Katies Story
by TheWho » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:23 pm

Deprogrammed wrote:
NeilW wrote:
So what if I am a parent, does that make me bad? I come to fornits for good reasons. When a kid posts their story of what they claim happened in a program, someone needs to play devils advocate and question their story. I do this through direct confrontation, or humor. If a kid says they were sexually abused, I might make a joke about it. I know for a fact sexual abuse doesn't happen in programs, so I don't see the issue with making it into a humurous situation.
If some kid decides to list the abuses directed against them, I might copy the list then point out which individual actions of abuse amuse me the most, and which one's are my favorites. You have to remember, abuse doesn't happen in programs. When some of you claim that it does, I know you are lying and I know pointing it out will make you upset. Then I can point out how venemous you are, and go to bed feeling like I made a difference in the world for good.

I'm not going to get upset or angry either. In fact I am going to remain incredibly calm while I tell you Mr. Dearest Neil, that you are a sick, sick, sick fuck.
That is all.
-DP

Sorry everyone, a troll hijacked my name and making some havoc. Guess thats what I get for not opening up an account.

NeilW

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27274&p=329784&hilit=sexually#p329784

[RobertBruce]

Here John tries to criticize another poster for posting anonymously or posting under other user names:

Remember that you are anonymous yourself, Ajax. Why do you cower behind a false name? If you were being truthful you would have nothing to hide and would post honestly under your name.

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24460&p=337817&hilit=Ajax#p337817

He ignores the fact that he routinely does this himself. Why do you have to lie John?

[RobertBruce]

So why do you have such a need to lie Whooter John?

You can't argue the points of this industry not being abusive, so instead you simply lie about the people who are beating you.

You accuse them of molesting or abusing their own children. You question their educational backround. You accuse them of making up their reports of abuse. Even in my own instance you became so enraged over all the times I've proven you wrong and shamed you, you lie and try and pretend I was locked up in HLA for less than the year I spent there. When you get really desperate you even try and question my sexuality, all because of your own sick mindset. You never have any evidence or information to back up your claims. You just start throwing wild punches all because you can't stand to accept this industry you work for has been proven to be abusive.

Deal with it John.

[Whooter]

Just to recap to this point, I believe what we are hearing mostly is that people use the word “Kidnap” to describe being escorted because “Escort Service” doesn’t sound abusive enough.  Many here feel uncomfortable telling other people they were escorted to a program so they embellish their story to replace escort with kidnap.

The one thing I still have a hard time understanding is that I have read that many survivors complain about not being taken seriously about their stories and being viewed as just druggies with little credibility.  If this is the thought here then why would survivors jeopardize their credibility further by not telling the truth or embellishing their stories?  I would think it would be just the opposite and they would work that much harder to build up their credibility.  Keeping communication clear, consistent and honest would go a long way in establishing this.

On a side note:
I don’t want to derail this thread with off topic arguments so I responded to one of Bruces posts over here:
Link

We can continue in that thread if you like.



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[RobertBruce]

Tell us John, if you were woken up in the middle of the night, handcuffed by strangers, thrown into a car and taken to an undisclosed location what would you call it?

[Whooter]

Tell us Whooter, if you were woken up in the middle of the night, handcuffed by strangers, thrown into a car and taken to an undisclosed location what would you call it?

I would call it frightening as all hell.  I would probably feel like I was kidnapped and maybe going to be held for ransom.

But if later on I found out that an escort service was hired to take me to a rehab because my mother was too frail to take me and I would have resisted her attempts I would not continue to tell people that I was kidnapped.

I would tell people that my mother hired an escort service to take me to rehab and they scared the bejesus out of me and I thought I was being kidnapped until they explained what was happening.  but I wouldnt spend my life lying to people trying to make them think I was actually kidnapped.  It just wouldn't be right and would hurt my credibility when they found out that no kidnappings ever occurred in my town and that I was lying.



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[RobertBruce]

Well under that same logic lets imagine this situation:

Your parents are seperated and in a heated custody battle. Your father has been awarded sole custody, but your mother goes on the run and takes you with. Your father tracks you down and not wanting to have your mother arrested sends in an agency to enter your home, and take you in the middle of the night. No explination is given to you until you get to your father.

Is it kidnapping?

[Whooter]

Well under that same logic lets imagine this situation:

Your parents are seperated and in a heated custody battle. Your father has been awarded sole custody, but your mother goes on the run and takes you with. Your father tracks you down and not wanting to have your mother arrested sends in an agency to enter your home, and take you in the middle of the night. No explination is given to you until you get to your father.

Is it kidnapping?

No it would not be kidnapping, the agency explains the situation to the child and quickly takes control of the situation so that the child and parents cannot have a confrontation.  The agency will not enter the home without setting it up with the parent(s) ahead of time.  The child typically watches movies, snacks and is even allowed to smoke if they like until they get to their destination.  The people are trained to make sure the child feels safe and knows what is going on.



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