Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[Paul St. John]

Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.

Paul

If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants.  But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.

Its not my way of thinking.  I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.



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Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....

I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that.  I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.  

See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.

This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.


Paul St. John

Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both.  Just like the kid in public school.  If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole.  If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.

I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.

None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived.  Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue?  We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it?  Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?



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Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life.  It is so obvious that you are full of shit...

You should be a politician if you are not already.

Paul

[Ursus]

Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.

Paul

If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants.  But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.

Its not my way of thinking.  I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.

Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....

I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that.  I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.  

See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.

This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.


Paul St. John

Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both.  Just like the kid in public school.  If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole.  If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.

I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.

None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived.  Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue?  We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it?  Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?

Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life.  It is so obvious that you are full of shit...

You should be a politician if you are not already.

Paul

Lol. Classic. Gotta looooove this place.

[Whooter]

Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life.  It is so obvious that you are full of shit...

You should be a politician if you are not already.

Paul

You just haven't been here very long, Paul.  I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table.  If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong.  You should ask what they mean by their statement.  To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on.  Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?  



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[RobertBruce]

Whooter wrote:

You just haven't been here very long, Paul. I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table. If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong. You should ask what they mean by their statement. To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on. Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?

John I'm amazed you feel this way. It wasn't so long ago you were confronted with the fact that HLA participated in these very practices. You dismissed the claims of not just abuse survivors, but staff members who coroborated the starvation diet claim.

Why the change of heart?

[RobertBruce]

Whooter wrote:

If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol

You're skirting the question John, If you have no connection to the industry, why would you attend a meeting to evaluate the safety of it? Whether you enjoy meeting fornits posters has nothing to do with that.

To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with other TBS abuse survivors.

[Whooter]

Whooter wrote:

If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol

To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with other TBS abuse survivors.

To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with TBS survivors from fornits.

If you had no connection with the industry then why would you travel to Newark to discuss how many people attend these programs? I think you decided on 20,000 was it?  Were there edcons and industry players there?  My meeting consisted of just fornits people.



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[RobertBruce]

You're still not answering the question John, a common avoidance tactic for you whenever you've painted yourself info a corner.


If you have no connection to the TBS industry why would you meet with fornits posters, or anyone else to discuss it's safety or form statistic groups connected to it? Simply stating that you enjoy meeting with fornits posters has nothing to do with the topic you claimed to discuss.

That would be like stating you have a number of Jewish friends, so you decide to attend a annual Holocaust survivors meeting. Why? You weren't there, and you have no connection to it.

To again answer your question: As a survivor of the TBS industry I have a connection to it, I suffered under it. Having a connection does not limit itself to only those like yourself who have a fiduciary interest to the industry. And no, there were no ed cons or industry shills like yourself even invited. The meeting consisted soley of former inmates/survivors.

[RobertBruce]

Looks like you missed this one John:

Whooter wrote:

You just haven't been here very long, Paul. I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table. If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong. You should ask what they mean by their statement. To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on. Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?

John I'm amazed you feel this way. It wasn't so long ago you were confronted with the fact that HLA participated in these very practices. You dismissed the claims of not just abuse survivors, but staff members who coroborated the starvation diet claim.

Why the change of heart?

[Whooter]

You're still not answering the question John, a common avoidance tactic for you whenever you've painted yourself info a corner.


If you have no connection to the TBS industry why would you meet with fornits posters, or anyone else to discuss it's safety or form statistic groups connected to it? Simply stating that you enjoy meeting with fornits posters has nothing to do with the topic you claimed to discuss.

That would be like stating you have a number of Jewish friends, so you decide to attend a annual Holocaust survivors meeting. Why? You weren't there, and you have no connection to it.

To again answer your question: As a survivor of the TBS industry I have a connection to it, I suffered under it. Having a connection does not limit itself to only those like yourself who have a fiduciary interest to the industry. And no, there were no ed cons or industry shills like yourself even invited. The meeting consisted soley of former inmates/survivors.

We both have connections to the industry..you attended a program and I had a daughter attend one.  We are both interested enough to seek out information about the industry.  That is one of the reasons I am here.  It clearly states in my post that I met with fornits posters, it didn’t mention that industry people were there.  I think you may be reading into this a bit much.



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[RobertBruce]

John, let's not go back to this make believe daughter. You had two sons, one of whom you murdered. That aside that still doesn't asnwer the question as to why you would meet with fornits posters to form a statistical group to discuss safety in the TBS.

You're also still avoiding the question regarding the starvation diet HLA used as a form of punishment. You claim to condone the practice now, yet it wasn't so long ago you dismissed it out of hand.

[Whooter]

John, let's not go back to this make believe daughter. You had two sons, one of whom you murdered. That aside that still doesn't asnwer the question as to why you would meet with fornits posters to form a statistical group to discuss safety in the TBS.

You're also still avoiding the question regarding the starvation diet HLA used as a form of punishment. You claim to condone the practice now, yet it wasn't so long ago you dismissed it out of hand.

RobertBruce, you are writing gibberish.....first, why would you travel to Newark, NJ to attend a meeting with TTI people when you have no connect to the industry or never went to a program?  How could just friends agree upon the number 20,000?  You must have had industry buy in on that.Why was the meeting kept so secret if you claim to be open and honest here on fornits?  Why do you refer to yourself as a survivor if you never went to a program? That doesn't make any sense to me.  Until you can answer that and straighten out your post I cant see how we can move forward with an honest discussion.

Here take a look:

RobertBruce wrote:  You are correct. The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.

Link


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[Troll Control]

"Fiduciary interest in Aspen Education"

"Chaired TTI meetings about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry'"

"Saw 'the screening process firsthand' and 'kids being rejected'"

"Had access to RobertBruce's 'treatment records from HLA'"

"Formed 'statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs'"

"Children are products, parents are customers"

Sorry, Whooter, but all of this does add up.  Maybe one bit here or there is an anomaly, but these facts plus many too more to list accompanied by your dogged defense of abusive Aspen programs and five years' worth of posting under several usernames to either promote abusive programs or degrade anyone who speaks out against them...?   It just doesn't fit your "just a regular parent" line.  No "regular parent" would behave like you do.

Whooter is a TTI industry man and Fornits troll.  Everyone should keep this in mind when reading his drivel.

[Whooter]

Hmmm.....  Wonder why DJ is so mad this morning?



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[Whooter]

I think DJ is upset because this study was released and he cant make it go away.

We have come a long way.  A few weeks ago many people had never heard of the Residential Treatment Outcome Study performed by Canyon Research.  They looked at close to 1,000 children and families and found that the programs studied where up to 80% effective.

Dysfunction junction and myself managed to put the spot light on this study over the past day or two and were able to nail down that the study was indeed independent and was overseen by an independent third party in the form of a Review Board (WIRB).  From WIRB’s documents:

The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study) for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).

WIRB reviewed the consent forms and approved the study and issued “Certificates of approval” as was pointed out in the study itself and presented to the APA.
Here are some supportive links and information as we stand today:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.

The Western Institutional Review Board approved consent/assent forms and issued Certificates of Approval for the study.
Here are copies of their "Certificate of Approval" forms
Sample 1
Sample 2

at the bottom of page 2 it states:

Federal regulations require that WIRB conduct continuing review of approved research. You will receive Continuing
Review Report forms from WIRB. These reports must be returned even though your study may not have started.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** As a disclaimer Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study.  What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire.  So we need to consider DJs' input/opinion against the published facts.



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[Troll Control]

No, but it would be convenient for you if that were true.  I think most people just see this as a way for you to deflect from the facts you can't avoid.  The study has been thoroughly discussed and there's not much more to say about it.

However...  You have made some claims here that lead only to three possible conclusions from reasonable people:

1.  You are an employee of a program or the parent organization for it, namely Aspen Education
2.  You are an unmitigated liar and complete phony
3.  Both 1 and 2

Either way...

I believe it is actually you that gets "upset" and "angry" about these facts because you have a financial stake in Aspen Education (remember, you claimed to be a fiduciary of same) and when I or others point out that everything you say here traces back to your business interests you become less credible (at this point you are totally incredible).

Most readers here are reasonable and they can easily connect the dots.  Your trying to avoid their conclusions via attacking other posters, derailing, obfuscating or otherwise dissembling is just a symptom of who you are and where you make your money.  When you feel someone is trying to break your rice bowl by legitimately pointing out proven facts about Aspen Education or the TTI in general you quite literally become unhinged and fly off the handle.  People notice this.  People also notice your obsession to reply to any criticism, no matter how minor, and take note that your idea of winning an argument is simply to have the last word, even through repetitive spamming day and night.

Add all this up and what the average person reading here is impressed with is that you are the most desperate, unsophisticated and low-brow of shills.

Don't shoot the messenger because you shot yourself in the foot.  Maybe you should change usernames again to try to start fresh.  This persona is cooked.