Many Many Programs Abuse Kids

[Ursus]

...did  :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock:  actually do this New Warriors Training?

Ah... It seems you've missed the premiere. No worries, that celebration is still ongoing. It all started right about here (or perhaps a lil earlier), in the LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy" thread:


Originally posted on 17 Jun 2010:

Well if the kids are supposedly (mistakenly believed to be) troubled teens then I feel they should only be exposed to an LGAT at their own choosing.  The kids in programs (who are troubled teens) are exposed to some of the nuances of LGAT on a watered down level.  I dont see this as being detrimental to them at all.

I wouldn't exactly call it "watered down;" I'd call it ramped up. Unlike your standard LGAT which could be a weekend, or a series of weekends, or an 8-day shebang day-in/day-out like the Hoffman Quadrinity Process, kids are in program for much longer periods of time.

Ursus think about this for a minute, have we not been introduced to LGAT's since puberty in some way or another. Boy Scouts Initiation weekend, Pop Warner Football first weekend workouts, High Schools sports first weekend workouts, the military, Mankind Weekend Workshop, Man Warrior Week Workshop, Self-Help
Experiential Weekends and AA Weekend Conferences. Elan had Marathon LGAT/Groups that I felt were very beneficial in uncovering alot of the shit I had to endure as a child, not all the staff and methods were detrimental to me or others.
Why do you feel compelled to swipe this large brush of yours across the entire landscape and call it abusive, I believe it depends on the education and integrity of the person/persons conducting the experiential exercise.

Last question Ursus are you saying that children today that are in programs are experiencing a LGAT non-stop, 24/7. I have read your opinion of LGAT's and wondered if this is really what your alluding to. Because then I would have to agree that under those circumstances a child's mental and emotional stability would be in question.

Well... the Mankind Project along with its "instructional tool" the New Warrior Training Adventure is an LGAT. Mankind Project evolved out of Sterling Seminars, which in turn evolved out of EST. Of course, there are other influences woven in as well, but the EST lineage is quite recognizable.

A surprising number of Hyde faculty and alumni parents seem drawn to this organization. I guess it's not really so "surprising"... Although I never took EST, I was told by someone who did ... that it was just like Hyde School, albeit for a shorter period of time!  

For a tale of just how damaging the New Warrior Training Adventure can be, read Chris Vogel's article "Naked Men: The ManKind Project and Michael Scinto" (Houston Press News; October 4, 2007).

[Ursus]

It continued onwards in the aftermath from that post in that thread, and also bled over into the HAPA -- an LGAT thread in the Hyde Schools forum, a coupla days before this very telling post:


Originally posted on 25 Jun 2010:

Ursus, wherever you get your information to satisfy your arguments is anyone's guess. I received some information the other day concerning Ursus, which was interesting and come to find out Ursus did attend a Warrior Workshop, found it to be offensive and left. It appears that the posting he has provided are of the workshop he attended, no where else has anyone heard of males fondling other males. Bravo you pervert, thanks for one more jaded post.
What happened Ursus, you went looking for a boyfriend and you got your ass kicked for fondling somebody, you became confused when they said hold hands, in the circle.  
Listen I don't know about anyone else here but your attempts at investigation are rather amateurish and well (stupid) really. You are a clown, Ursus. Your posts are so clearly biased, why do you even write/paste them. Have you ever had a balanced thought???
I did the weekend that is already on the record, I have had nothing more to do with the ManKind Corp. after that weekend other then to talk with other men who attended. They have follow up groups you can attend after, I chose to not attend. In twenty years I have never heard of anyone fondling another participant in circle, ever.
Thank-you Ursus

[Watchful Yeoman]

Oh my goodness.  It seems  :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock:  has been fully immersed in the NWT culture.  I always suspected  :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock:  was a naughty little warrior!

[Anne Bonney]

Oh my goodness.  It seems  :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock:  has been fully immersed in the NWT culture.  I always suspected  :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock:  was a naughty little warrior!

When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work.  You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is.  You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked.  They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".


Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?

[Ursus]

When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is.

Yep. Thanks for reminding me. This subject also comes up in the aparently, adults want to go to programs too thread, which is about the tragic incidents (including deaths) which occurred during James Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat last year.

Here Danny discusses other experiential workshops he admires or has attended:


Originally posted on 20 Jun 2010:

Perhaps the most important piece of etiquette is gratitude. It is important to be thankful to the purpose of the sweat, the people joining you in the lodge, and those helping to support the sweat lodge.

The going "gratitude" for James Arthur Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat, which was supposed to "absolutely change your life," and of which this sweat experience was part of, was roughly $9000. I believe that sums up to a gross of well over half a million $$$.

You need to consider the guys expenses before judging him.  Although they are paying $9,000 a piece, you need to consider that  the program lasts for several days at a time and they have to feed and lodge these 70 or so people.  So Mr. Ray is kept very busy unless he hires help, which doesn’t come cheap.  Say 10 people, to help out,   at $15/hour, 10 hours a day for 3 days.  That’s $4,500 he needs to pay his employees in salary for the 3 days.  Say $5 dollars per meal @ 3 meals per day.. that totals $3,100 (maybe $10/meal thats $6,200) for the 3 days.  The sweat lodge must cost a few hundred dollars a month to maintain.  He probably donates a few thousand to local charities every summer.. sponsors a kids baseball team, donations to the local police drive, picks up the tab for a big part of the local town mayors campaign expenses, which can be overwhelming for a small town mayor who has to work a second job to keep things going with 2 kids facing college.
So he grosses $630,000 for a 3 day weekend and pays out about $10,000 in expenses.  He doesn’t have to work every weekend during the year to make a decent living.

You really cant get too pissed at Mr. Ray because if you really think about it after a few years it must get pretty tiresome sitting in a hot sweaty tent with 70 people (weekend after weekend) trying to find themselves when you have an air conditioned villa in the Bahamas waiting for you on Tuesday night.  Who the hell would want to sit in a sweat lodge with these people once the checks cleared?

Dag'gum Whootie, smacks of American capitalism.
Anthony Robbins made a fortune in Bali and no I never attended.
Teminos Inc. out of San Francisco runs a 4 day workshop at $2500.00 a head, 200 people attend, 3 staff/owners administer and the other 30 are non-tendered past attendees. The net $500,000.00. Four days worth of work, 3 staff/owners split after expenses $425,000.00, thats $141,666.66 each. "They Get Paid".
Cherly, Joy and Eric actually run one of the best experiential workshops I've ever attended, though I did not have to pay.
I don't think I would give any company that runs experiential workshops $2500.00 for a weekend. Just sounds crazy to me.

danny

[Anne Bonney]

It continued onwards in the aftermath from that post in that thread, and also bled over into the HAPA -- an LGAT thread in the Hyde Schools forum, a coupla days before this very telling post:


Originally posted on 25 Jun 2010:

Ursus, wherever you get your information to satisfy your arguments is anyone's guess. I received some information the other day concerning Ursus, which was interesting and come to find out Ursus did attend a Warrior Workshop, found it to be offensive and left. It appears that the posting he has provided are of the workshop he attended, no where else has anyone heard of males fondling other males. Bravo you pervert, thanks for one more jaded post.
What happened Ursus, you went looking for a boyfriend and you got your ass kicked for fondling somebody, you became confused when they said hold hands, in the circle.  
Listen I don't know about anyone else here but your attempts at investigation are rather amateurish and well (stupid) really. You are a clown, Ursus. Your posts are so clearly biased, why do you even write/paste them. Have you ever had a balanced thought???
I did the weekend that is already on the record, I have had nothing more to do with the ManKind Corp. after that weekend other then to talk with other men who attended. They have follow up groups you can attend after, I chose to not attend. In twenty years I have never heard of anyone fondling another participant in circle, ever.
Thank-you Ursus

What is it with him and threats?  Veiled or outright, physical or "inside info" crap??    

[Ursus]

When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".

Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?

 This one?

My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]

[Anne Bonney]

When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".

Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?

 This one?

My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]

 :seg:  That's the one!!  I love that guy's take on it.  :rofl:

[Whooter]

When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".

Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?

 This one?

My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]

 :seg:  That's the one!!  I love that guy's take on it.  :rofl:

Thats funny,  he is a very good writer and can tell it is a little tongue-in-cheek at times.  He had fun with it.



...

[DannyB II]

...

[RobertBruce]

Danny you crazy drunken nazi you.

You seem to misunderstand something, so let me dumb it down for you.


I view you to be nothing more than a drunken child abusing clown. I humor you because it serves a purpose. The more you bloviate the more you expose the types of people that support this industry. All you are is some over weight slob who runs from one argument to the next making nonsensical ramblings about nothing. You can't actually refute any arguments or question put to you. You're only response seems to be "Nuh uh". You have yet to ever disprove a claim made, or back up a single one of your useless comments.

You want to have this conversation with me? Fine. It will be held on my terms, not yours. I'm only playing this game with you because in the end I know I can back up my claims, and I can prove you wrong. You have nothing on me, and you can't back up a thing. Every claim that you were stupid enough to believe Whooter John on has been wrong. You are going to walk away with egg on your face trying to pretend this whole business never happened. I tried playing nice with you, but you're too set on imagining yourself as some bully to even understand that you don't intimidate anyone. Virtually every poster on here is smarter than you. Everyone.

So ask your questions and answer mine. Just remember I've seen this episode before, I know how it ends. If you're suddenly afraid, there's no shame in walking away tail tucked between your legs.

[DannyB II]

...

[aticounselling]

Addiction counseling is a kind of mental health treatment that focuses on helping a patient overcome a psychological dependence, compulsion or obsession. It also aims to understand the process of addiction and its impact on the patient, their family, and society. In acute cases of addiction, counseling is often done in conjunction with medical treatments and other forms of therapy.

Addiction Counselling
Depression Counselling :rasta:

[Whooter]

Danny you crazy drunken nazi you.

You seem to misunderstand something, so let me dumb it down for you.


I view you to be nothing more than a drunken child abusing clown. I humor you because it serves a purpose. The more you bloviate the more you expose the types of people that support this industry. All you are is some over weight slob who runs from one argument to the next making nonsensical ramblings about nothing. You can't actually refute any arguments or question put to you. You're only response seems to be "Nuh uh". You have yet to ever disprove a claim made, or back up a single one of your useless comments.

You want to have this conversation with me? Fine. It will be held on my terms, not yours. I'm only playing this game with you because in the end I know I can back up my claims, and I can prove you wrong. You have nothing on me, and you can't back up a thing. Every claim that you were stupid enough to believe Whooter John on has been wrong. You are going to walk away with egg on your face trying to pretend this whole business never happened. I tried playing nice with you, but you're too set on imagining yourself as some bully to even understand that you don't intimidate anyone. Virtually every poster on here is smarter than you. Everyone.

So ask your questions and answer mine. Just remember I've seen this episode before, I know how it ends. If you're suddenly afraid, there's no shame in walking away tail tucked between your legs.

Bruce, why do you continuously have to attack people for their opinions on this forum?  You are trying to bully people, again, into believing or saying what you want them to say.  You tried this several times with me and each time you failed and only managed to derail the conversation.  We established early on that you have a tendency to exaggerate your stories and length of time spent in HLA so we tend to ask for more detail from you to establish the level of credibility in your stories.  Dont take it personally, just try to stay on topic and answer the questions the best you can.



...

[Watchful Yeoman]

I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children.  Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.