General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
Islam’s Invasion Ideology...
BuzzKill:
--- Quote ---And you don't see any similarities in the Christian Bible's demands for blood, stoning etc.? Or the Orthodox Jewish Torah? Do you really believe that every single Muslim is that extreme or radical? That's like saying that every single Christian is like Fred Phelps.
--- End quote ---
There are some similarities with the Livitical law and Sharia - but the differences are many and very significant.
Where did I say every single Muslim is a radical? I said the moderates beir the responsibility of allowing the radicals to flourish and function. I also say I recognize why they find it so difficult to do otherwise. I'll add I do think most privately condone the radical actions even if they personally have no desire to take part; quite unlike 99.9% of Christians who find Mr. Phelps and his congregation an appalling abomination.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "BuzzKill" ---
--- Quote ---And you don't see any similarities in the Christian Bible's demands for blood, stoning etc.? Or the Orthodox Jewish Torah? Do you really believe that every single Muslim is that extreme or radical? That's like saying that every single Christian is like Fred Phelps.
--- End quote ---
There are some similarities with the Livitical law and Sharia - but the differences are many and very significant.
--- End quote ---
I'd disagree there. The Bible (moreso the Old Testament, but even the 'new and improved' version) is incredibly violent.
--- Quote ---Where did I say every single Muslim is a radical?
--- End quote ---
Ok, maybe you hadn't said it yet, but your comment below (bolded) pretty much says it.
--- Quote --- I said the moderates beir the responsibility of allowing the radicals to flourish and function. I also say I recognize why they find it so difficult to do otherwise. I'll add I do think most privately condone the radical actions even if they personally have no desire to take part;
--- End quote ---
What is the basis for that belief?
--- Quote --- quite unlike 99.9% of Christians who find Mr. Phelps and his congregation an appalling abomination.
--- End quote ---
How 'bout Timothy McVeigh? There's a large number of the "militiamen" (all extreme right-wingers) that openly condone what he did and even more that aren't open about it. Are we to judge Christians by his actions?
BuzzKill:
--- Quote ---There are some similarities with the Livitical law and Sharia - but the differences are many and very significant.
I'd disagree there. The Bible (moreso the Old Testament, but even the 'new and improved' version) is incredibly violent.
--- End quote ---
All I can do is repeat myself here - the differences are many and significant. If this were not so, you'd have Jews and Christians acting like the jihadist.
--- Quote ---Where did I say every single Muslim is a radical?
Ok, maybe you hadn't said it yet, but your comment below (bolded) pretty much says it.
I said the moderates beir the responsibility of allowing the radicals to flourish and function. I also say I recognize why they find it so difficult to do otherwise. I'll add I do think most privately condone the radical actions even if they personally have no desire to take part;
What is the basis for that belief?
--- End quote ---
The basis is personal experience with a moderate muslim from Jordan, combined with the fact that moderate muslims living in the US, where they are relatively safe from Sharia law, still refuse to speak out against it, or Jihad. I believe this is for the reason I stated. Still - saying I think most silently condone the terror isn't the same as saying I think all would commit such terror.
I'll add, I'll never forget as long as I live watching the film of people dancing in the streets shrilling praises to Allah after 9/11 - which also supports my POV that even those who refrain from taking such action themselves often condone it. There are enough to fill a cities streets who go so far as to celebrate it.
--- Quote --- quite unlike 99.9% of Christians who find Mr. Phelps and his congregation an appalling abomination.
How 'bout Timothy McVeigh? There's a large number of the "militiamen" (all extreme right-wingers) that openly condone what he did and even more that aren't open about it. Are we to judge Christians by his actions?
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty far to the right myself and I have never, not once from anyone, ever heard McVeigh or his actions condoned. I don't claim to have personal knowledge of what faith - if any - McVeigh followed, but I have read repeatedly that he was not a Christian. It is often written that he was an atheist. I did read once that he followed a kind of Christianity that is similar to what the modern Klan teaches - which is so drastically warped and bastardized it bears no resemblance to Scriptural Christianity. But in any case, his actions were not a result of any religious belief, but rather a hate of the US government. And even if this were not so - He is one man who was part of one very small group - acting alone and against all accepted morals, ethics and beliefs of the society he lived in and attacked - Quite unlike the Islamic terrorist who is acting according to strict application of his societies very foundation and laws. There is no valid comparison what-so-ever.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "BuzzKill" ---All I can do is repeat myself here - the differences are many and significant. If this were not so, you'd have Jews and Christians acting like the jihadist.
--- End quote ---
And I think that's due to the beauty of living in a secular society. We're not beholden to a religious text that is out-dated with the world and it's realities. You're comparing apples to oranges. The Middle East is a third world country whose political leaders rely on religion to keep the population "in check". If people like Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and the like had their way, we'd be living under the "law" of the Christian Bible and would end up, after time, being much like the Middle East.
--- Quote ---The basis is personal experience with a moderate muslim from Jordan, combined with the fact that moderate muslims living in the US, where they are relatively safe from Sharia law, still refuse to speak out against it, or Jihad. I believe this is for the reason I stated. Still - saying I think most silently condone the terror isn't the same as saying I think all would commit such terror.
--- End quote ---
So, you're basing that belief on your experience with one person.
--- Quote --- I'll add, I'll never forget as long as I live watching the film of people dancing in the streets shrilling praises to Allah after 9/11 - which also supports my POV that even those who refrain from taking such action themselves often condone it. There are enough to fill a cities streets who go so far as to celebrate it.
--- End quote ---
I don't recall any Muslims in America rejoicing. In fact, I remember seeing clips of devastated family members of Muslims that were killed when the Towers came down. Again, I think that's the beauty of living in a secular society. You can't realistically compare America to the Middle East.
--- Quote ---
I'm pretty far to the right myself and I have never, not once from anyone, ever heard McVeigh or his actions condoned. I don't claim to have personal knowledge of what faith - if any - McVeigh followed, but I have read repeatedly that he was not a Christian.
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http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=98
--- Quote ---It is often written that he was an atheist.
--- End quote ---
I've never seen that anywhere.
--- Quote ---I did read once that he followed a kind of Christianity that is similar to what the modern Klan teaches - which is so drastically warped and bastardized it bears no resemblance to Scriptural Christianity.
--- End quote ---
First, I completely disagree that it bears no resemblance to "Scriptual Christianity". As I said earlier, the Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah/ Tanakh are filled with extreme violence and horrible hatred.
Second, how is that any different than Muslims claiming that the extremists in their religion have "drastically warped and bastardized" Islam?
--- Quote --- But in any case, his actions were not a result of any religious belief, but rather a hate of the US government. And even if this were not so - He is one man who was part of one very small group - acting alone and against all accepted morals, ethics and beliefs of the society he lived in and attacked - Quite unlike the Islamic terrorist who is acting according to strict application of his societies very foundation and laws. There is no valid comparison what-so-ever.
--- End quote ---
Because we live in a secular society. If we lived in a nation that adhered to the Bible as strictly as Muslim nations adhere to Islam, we'd have similar situations here. But, thankfully, the FF knew that a theocracy was dangerous.
The regular people in the Middle East are virtually in a cult BECAUSE it's a theocracy and therefore subject to the whims of the extremists who end up in power. America is a free society, for the moment at least, and has access to reality.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "BuzzKill" ---The basis is personal experience with a moderate muslim from Jordan, combined with the fact that moderate muslims living in the US, where they are relatively safe from Sharia law, still refuse to speak out against it, or Jihad. I believe this is for the reason I stated. Still - saying I think most silently condone the terror isn't the same as saying I think all would commit such terror.
--- End quote ---
One more thought on this aspect......most of the moderate Muslims living in the U.S. still have family that are in the Middle East and are very much afraid that what they say here will effect their family members still living over there.
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