Anne, that is not what he is saying. AA does not actually tell you how to live a "LIFE". AA introduces a design for living, suggestive at it's core.
Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested [Bill Wilson's required] Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant. ~~
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 174.Anne, why is it so necessary for you to get caught up in these condemnations of AA, if people believe it has helped them then this is all the proof you need.
No, it may be all the proof YOU need, however I require more.
OK, we get it. Anne does not like AA, well thousands upon thousands would disagree with you.
Here we go again equating being popular with being correct.
WoW, you really do not trust others do you.
Until they've earned it, no, I don't.
Valliants study does not prove anything near that, all it does is raise an argument/theory.
No, it proved that the death rates were higher among those who attended AA than those who did nothing.
Anne, you really think so. You said you were a addict, a crack head.
No, I never said I was a crackhead. I've never done crack. I was addicted to opiates.
You keep saying that but you're completely wrong. There are plenty of us out here who have had damn serious drug problems and have successfully dealt with them without joining a cult-like group.
That is not true at all, most of you started out in AA/NA and moved on.
I attended meetings because I was told that was "the only way". I found out very differently. AA did nothing for me other than give me an excuse for my bad behavior and make me feel as though I was powerless. I was told over and over that if I left "the rooms" that I would DIE (duhn duhn DUHHHHHNNN!!!). Once I accepted personal responsibility for my actions and sought medical help, I was relieved of my addiction. AA had NOTHING whatsoever to do with "helping" me at all. Quite the opposite.
The only statement lacking in your story, Anne. Is your gratitude towards AA/NA helping you to get on your way to a healthy life.
Why would I be grateful for something that told me I was powerless? Why would I be grateful for something that told me I didn't need the medications that my doctor prescribed for me? Why would I be grateful for something that told me I'd be "signing my own death warrant" if I left the rooms?
I am talking about AA/NA after you had left, Straight.
Graduated Straight. I wasn't lucky enough to leave before being totally brainwashed.
All of the people who willingly show up at AA/NA meetings going on across the country today, choose to go because something about AA works for them. Maybe you might not understand why, or how it works for them. But does that make you right, and them wrong? Is such a large group of people who willingly make that choice to attend a meeting, a cult?
There are millions of people attending Scientology. Just because they have large numbers does that mean they're not a cult?
Why are we bringing up Scientology 
One has nothing to do with the other.
They're extremely similar, especially in this case. You guys keep talking about how popular AA is and how millions of people can't be wrong. Scientologists feel the same way about their cult.
Yes, so why do you insist on coming here and trying to cram your version of "help" down our throats? We were already "helped" almost to death and we're a little sick of it.
Because he is allowed.
Sure he is, but does he really think it's helping his 'cause'? If AA is supposed to be a program of attraction, you guys are doing a damn good job of turning people away from it if you're any indication of the kinds of people that AA churns out.
Since I've been in both an extremely abusive program and in AA for a number of years, I can say that they are very similar in nature but AA does it in a much more subtle way. If they came at the newcomers like programs do, people would be running out of "the rooms" in droves.
Anne, your nose is growing by the second. Why is it, you find the need to fabricate. You were doing so well, then you veer off into disillusion.
Every time I say something that you don't like, or that hits a nerve with you, you accuse me of lying. It makes it easier for you to dismiss reality.
Max, Anne will not get honest about this to save her life. You are just banging your head against a wall.
Every time I say something that you don't like, or that hits a nerve with you, you accuse me of lying. It makes it easier for you to dismiss reality.
No, that's your view of Fornits. You don't like that people actually challenge the "mainstream" notion that AA is good, so you throw your tantrums. Daily. If it works for you, great.....keep going back but quit trying to shove it down our throats.
Anne, please refrain from attacking him. He is not throwing any tantrums or shoving anything anywhere.
Where the hell did I attack him? I said if it works for him, great...but I asked that he please quit trying to shove it down other people's throats....especially people who feel they've been abused by it.
Anne you cite anecdotal sources from the Orange Papers and Valliant's, there opinions. AA has a Book, if you did not know, Bill cites many sources.
Do you realize who Valliant is?? Why don't you go and look him up. I think you'll be surprised. :rofl: And AO cites sources for his opinions. Something you guys either can't or refuse to do.
But I know that reality is a lot different than fornits reality,
Your reality is different than a lot of people's reality. So what? Why do you still insist on cramming it down our throats? It doesn't work for us and we've found evidence as to why it creeped us out so badly. Why can't you let us have our own views on it?
I did not know by posting different views on this site we were preventing you from having yours. Sounds like Anne, you can not stand it when someone else has a different opinion and tells you about it.
No, it's that when I post my experiences with AA, I get called a liar.
Sure....and I became a much stronger person after I was raped, but I'd rather not have gone thru the torture just to get a little stronger.
Is this a true statement or a metaphor.
True statement. Not that you'll believe it, but it's true nonetheless.
It is fornits, with it's extreme anti treatment opinions and agenda that is truly the cult. Fornits anti treatment ideology is based on a select number of experiences, reinforced with a forum designed to focus solely on these negative experiences.
.
Fornits is a message board created to be a place where people who were abused in the name of treatment could get together and talk. That's it. You guys keep insisting, at the same time, that it's insignificant, but a cult.
"Fornits" isn't anything. It's a friggin message board.
Anne, now that is not true, at all. Fornits is a political arm trying to push a agenda. Not that I find any problem with this. I actually encourage it.
A political arm?
? Oh you really are that far gone.
No AA, gave you a reason to take responsibility for your life.
Why are you insisting on giving credit for my actions to a group of people who did nothing to help me? My husband and kids gave me a reason to take responsibility for my life and choices.
I am sorry you were such a fuck up that you could not even grasp the simple tools AA was trying to give you.
Ah, there's more of that AA serenity and happiness. And you wonder why we think you guys are assholes.
I am happy though as you have said before, that you were able to find a counselor that would put up with your crap enough to get through your hard head.
Doctor....I found a doctor who helped me.
Anne, you have to remember the amount of resentment you had towards AA, from being in Straight. Take this into account.
Typical egotistical rantings of a Stepcrafter.
Where did you ever get the idea that Fornits is in the business of addiction therapy?
Where did you get the idea, that Fornits is what "you" think it is or better stated what "you" want it to be.
Well, I was here at the beginning so I think I have a little better idea than you do.
Anne, listen to Ginger, stop talking.
I don't recall Ginger telling me to stop talking. Maybe she said that talking to you was a waste of time, but she's never told me to stop talking. Why don't you ask her why she created this site? It damn sure wasn't to be addiction therapy! Or a "political arm"!!! :rofl: You really are insane, aren't you?
Your digging a insurmountable hole, throw the shovel, away.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You really are insane, aren't you?
