Author Topic: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?  (Read 16715 times)

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Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2010, 02:42:57 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Frodie, say what you will, the girl is a liar. She knows this, you know it and everyone else knows it.

Not so. I do not know this, at all.

I think you are beginning to come unhinged lately, DB; I think you really could use a break from these forums...

Have a seat.

 :rofl:  :cheers:


Love ya Danny !!!!!    :rofl:
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Offline Whootie Fish

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2010, 02:45:08 PM »
Danny, until you are ready to get honest with the group...please have a seat.
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Offline Whootie Fish

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2010, 02:46:53 PM »
I am sorry, yes! Luv Ya Danny!!!!
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2010, 02:52:33 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "DannyB II"


I think I will.  sigh..... Your killing me Anne with this stuff you write. :rofl:  :rofl:


G'head.....ask him.

I was referring to the "have a seat" comment.  I said, "I think I will".  sigh.....
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Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2010, 03:11:49 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"


I'm asking these in good faith, I'm not looking to turn this into a political battle about AA. I am just curious as how you perceive it, and the people that attend AA meetings.

For the benefit of Max...

Please start at the bottom of page 2 and read the post by Anne and myself, please just skip over postings from Danny and Who as these are mostly derailment off of the subject...


Peace and much healing
 :peace:
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2010, 03:17:04 PM »
I don't mind the comparison between religion and AA, and another man's religion is often times considered a cult, if we don't believe in it ourselves. Christianity was considered a cult way back when, when it was in the minority belief. Like religion AA has a set of beliefs, and written documents that explain the ideology. Like churches, people are free to start their own AA chapters, and I would say it's less like Catholicism in this way, more like Protestant(?) or a less regulated form of Christianity, because there is no leader like a pope, and individual chapters, as far as I know, don't need permission to start. AA also is open to all types of people, because they have specific groups like gays, women, and all sorts of other groups. These other groups were created after AA because people wanted something similar for their own issues, and so they started it. AA, and the big book, has been like a seed that has yielded many different fruits, and so it seems to work for some people.

At times in history religion has been used to harm people, like religious terrorism and conquest and stuff like that. I think this is the same with abusive programs who usurp the AA ideology (because anybody is free to if they want) and twist it in such an extreme way, it doesn't represent the AA most people know outside of programs. I think the reason confession of sins is a part of so many religions, and what not, is because it helps people get past things and move on, and then improve themselves. When you feel hopelessly stuck in a self destructive pattern, finding a way to be reborn, whether through religion, or dropping all your friends and previous life, and adopting AA, I think is sometimes necessary.

I believe Anne Bonney when she says that some people in AA were reluctant to use psychiatric medications. I've been to meetings, the one I happened to go to was an old school all mens meeting, where people talked about how you shouldn't use medications. But then other people would stand up and say, I'm on it they help me. Some people would then argue, that you are not truly sober if you need to be medicated to be "normal". They really believe that if the person follows AA and takes it seriously, this will be enough. They believe that, because it worked for them, and they've probably seen AA help a lot of people. So if you believe you have a solution that could help someone, I don't think it's that strange to offer your advice.

People should be thoughtful when choosing a sponsor. There is no application form to AA, everybody in this world is not a saint, or all have the same opinions. I took anti depressants when in treatment, and I think they're bullshit. They didn't do anything, and they kept medication more and more until I was a zombie. I don't think that's the most positive way to get sober, and are you really sober if you are that medicated and can't deal with reality without the help of chemical intervention? Some AA meetings are more fundamentalist than others, they are all different, have different people and so if people want a loose AA meeting where you can smoke pot and still be considered sober, they exist. There are meetings for everyone, so many different types it's hard to condemn all of these various groups and people in them, with one fell swoop.

I think people have very individual experiences in AA, just like in programs. It depends on what meeting they went to, who happened to be there, who they choose as their sponsor, and a bunch of other random events. The sum of all these various possibilities will result in a truly unique experience for everybody. I believe the same is true for programs. So I think some people can have negative experience in AA, and go back to using based on the many random events that take place after they choose to get help at AA. I would hope they would give it another chance, at another meeting, but that's up to them. I had very positive experiences with AA, the people in it, and how good it is to have such a widespread, community run support system. Unlike rehab or asking government for help, you just show up. Nobody asks you to sign your name, or for an insurance card. It really is anonymous, and you can tell people things you might not be able to tell anybody in your life, and that can help sometimes. Because a lot of addicts/alcoholics suffer in silence, without telling anybody of what their true underground life is really like. Here is a group of other like minded people, who say, come share with us. We won't judge you, and will do our very best to help you. If you don't want it, you can leave when you want, and by the way it's free. I respect everybody's opinions here, I just want to share my own opinions about AA. Thanks for reading this.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2010, 03:23:42 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
I don't mind the comparison between religion and AA, and another man's religion is often times considered a cult, if we don't believe in it ourselves. Christianity was considered a cult way back when, when it was in the minority belief. Like religion AA has a set of beliefs, and written documents that explain the ideology. Like churches, people are free to start their own AA chapters, and I would say it's less like Catholicism in this way, more like Protestant(?) or a less regulated form of Christianity, because there is no leader like a pope, and individual chapters, as far as I know, don't need permission to start. AA also is open to all types of people, because they have specific groups like gays, women, and all sorts of other groups. These other groups were created after AA because people wanted something similar for their own issues, and so they started it. AA, and the big book, has been like a seed that has yielded many different fruits, and so it seems to work for some people.

At times in history religion has been used to harm people, like religious terrorism and conquest and stuff like that. I think this is the same with abusive programs who usurp the AA ideology (because anybody is free to if they want) and twist it in such an extreme way, it doesn't represent the AA most people know outside of programs. I think the reason confession of sins is a part of so many religions, and what not, is because it helps people get past things and move on, and then improve themselves. When you feel hopelessly stuck in a self destructive pattern, finding a way to be reborn, whether through religion, or dropping all your friends and previous life, and adopting AA, I think is sometimes necessary.

I believe Anne Bonney when she says that some people in AA were reluctant to use psychiatric medications. I've been to meetings, the one I happened to go to was an old school all mens meeting, where people talked about how you shouldn't use medications. But then other people would stand up and say, I'm on it they help me. Some people would then argue, that you are not truly sober if you need to be medicated to be "normal". They really believe that if the person follows AA and takes it seriously, this will be enough. They believe that, because it worked for them, and they've probably seen AA help a lot of people. So if you believe you have a solution that could help someone, I don't think it's that strange to offer your advice.

People should be thoughtful when choosing a sponsor. There is no application form to AA, everybody in this world is not a saint, or all have the same opinions. I took anti depressants when in treatment, and I think they're bullshit. They didn't do anything, and they kept medication more and more until I was a zombie. I don't think that's the most positive way to get sober, and are you really sober if you are that medicated and can't deal with reality without the help of chemical intervention? Some AA meetings are more fundamentalist than others, they are all different, have different people and so if people want a loose AA meeting where you can smoke pot and still be considered sober, they exist. There are meetings for everyone, so many different types it's hard to condemn all of these various groups and people in them, with one fell swoop.

I think people have very individual experiences in AA, just like in programs. It depends on what meeting they went to, who happened to be there, who they choose as their sponsor, and a bunch of other random events. The sum of all these various possibilities will result in a truly unique experience for everybody. I believe the same is true for programs. So I think some people can have negative experience in AA, and go back to using based on the many random events that take place after they choose to get help at AA. I would hope they would give it another chance, at another meeting, but that's up to them. I had very positive experiences with AA, the people in it, and how good it is to have such a widespread, community run support system. Unlike rehab or asking government for help, you just show up. Nobody asks you to sign your name, or for an insurance card. It really is anonymous, and you can tell people things you might not be able to tell anybody in your life, and that can help sometimes. Because a lot of addicts/alcoholics suffer in silence, without telling anybody of what their true underground life is really like. Here is a group of other like minded people, who say, come share with us. We won't judge you, and will do our very best to help you. If you don't want it, you can leave when you want, and by the way it's free. I respect everybody's opinions here, I just want to share my own opinions about AA. Thanks for reading this.


Nice, piece of work Max. As I've always said if folks would take heed to some of your thoughts (including me) this site would be a better place for it.
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Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2010, 03:44:35 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
I believe Anne Bonney when she says that some people in AA were reluctant to use psychiatric medications. I've been to meetings, the one I happened to go to was an old school all mens meeting, where people talked about how you shouldn't use medications. But then other people would stand up and say, I'm on it they help me. Some people would then argue, that you are not truly sober if you need to be medicated to be "normal". They really believe that if the person follows AA and takes it seriously, this will be enough.

See not all people have the quick judgment to call Anne a liar.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2010, 03:49:10 PM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
I believe Anne Bonney when she says that some people in AA were reluctant to use psychiatric medications. I've been to meetings, the one I happened to go to was an old school all mens meeting, where people talked about how you shouldn't use medications. But then other people would stand up and say, I'm on it they help me. Some people would then argue, that you are not truly sober if you need to be medicated to be "normal". They really believe that if the person follows AA and takes it seriously, this will be enough.

See not all people have the quick judgment to call Anne a liar.

Read what he is saying, BP. What I am questioning and what he is saying is very different.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2010, 10:26:47 AM »
Max, you're thoughts and response are greatly appreciated and I can understand how you see it that way.  We just happen to disagree on certain points.  My problem really isn't with the people in AA...quite the contrary - more the big book and 12 & 12 and Bill Wilson.  He was an attention freak (was pissed off whenever he went to meetings and wasn't recognized or acknowledged) with a guru complex, IMO (like Newton).  He also came to his "spiritual awakening" under the influence of withdrawal and Bella Donna....hell who WOULDN'T have some kind of an awakening using that stuff?!  He is still revered to this day as a quasi-savior.

As I've said, I have no problem with like minded people getting together to support each other in a common goal.  I do have a problem with the literature and the sponsors.    They're treated like semi-gods and their word is gold.  I believe that is dangerous, as they have no qualifications to diagnose anyone or recommend anything medical.  Support is one thing, trying to get someone to follow your brand of religion/dogma is quite another.
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AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

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Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2010, 10:49:46 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Max, you're thoughts and response are greatly appreciated and I can understand how you see it that way.  We just happen to disagree on certain points.  My problem really isn't with the people in AA...quite the contrary - more the big book and 12 & 12 and Bill Wilson.  He was an attention freak (was pissed off whenever he went to meetings and wasn't recognized or acknowledged) with a guru complex, IMO (like Newton).  He also came to his "spiritual awakening" under the influence of withdrawal and Bella Donna....hell who WOULDN'T have some kind of an awakening using that stuff?!  He is still revered to this day as a quasi-savior.

As I've said, I have no problem with like minded people getting together to support each other in a common goal.  I do have a problem with the literature and the sponsors.    They're treated like semi-gods and their word is gold.  I believe that is dangerous, as they have no qualifications to diagnose anyone or recommend anything medical.  Support is one thing, trying to get someone to follow your brand of religion/dogma is quite another.


You like that word "Dogma" don't you... another word for our arsenal...  :seg:
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2010, 10:50:58 AM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Max, you're thoughts and response are greatly appreciated and I can understand how you see it that way.  We just happen to disagree on certain points.  My problem really isn't with the people in AA...quite the contrary - more the big book and 12 & 12 and Bill Wilson.  He was an attention freak (was pissed off whenever he went to meetings and wasn't recognized or acknowledged) with a guru complex, IMO (like Newton).  He also came to his "spiritual awakening" under the influence of withdrawal and Bella Donna....hell who WOULDN'T have some kind of an awakening using that stuff?!  He is still revered to this day as a quasi-savior.

As I've said, I have no problem with like minded people getting together to support each other in a common goal.  I do have a problem with the literature and the sponsors.    They're treated like semi-gods and their word is gold.  I believe that is dangerous, as they have no qualifications to diagnose anyone or recommend anything medical.  Support is one thing, trying to get someone to follow your brand of religion/dogma is quite another.


You like that word "Dogma" don't you... another word for our arsenal...  :seg:


Hey, if the shoe fits.... :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2010, 11:17:59 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Max, you're thoughts and response are greatly appreciated and I can understand how you see it that way.  We just happen to disagree on certain points.  My problem really isn't with the people in AA...quite the contrary - more the big book and 12 & 12 and Bill Wilson.  He was an attention freak (was pissed off whenever he went to meetings and wasn't recognized or acknowledged) with a guru complex, IMO (like Newton).  He also came to his "spiritual awakening" under the influence of withdrawal and Bella Donna....hell who WOULDN'T have some kind of an awakening using that stuff?!  He is still revered to this day as a quasi-savior.

As I've said, I have no problem with like minded people getting together to support each other in a common goal.  I do have a problem with the literature and the sponsors.    They're treated like semi-gods and their word is gold.  I believe that is dangerous, as they have no qualifications to diagnose anyone or recommend anything medical.  Support is one thing, trying to get someone to follow your brand of religion/dogma is quite another.


You like that word "Dogma" don't you... another word for our arsenal...  :seg:


Hey, if the shoe fits.... :)


Like I said before, "If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, must be a duck."  :seg:
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Offline Eliscu2

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nothing
« Reply #88 on: August 31, 2010, 11:25:29 AM »
:karma:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 12:22:34 AM by Eliscu2 »
WELCOME TO HELL!

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?
« Reply #89 on: August 31, 2010, 05:25:28 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Max, you're thoughts and response are greatly appreciated and I can understand how you see it that way.  We just happen to disagree on certain points.  My problem really isn't with the people in AA...quite the contrary - more the big book and 12 & 12 and Bill Wilson.  He was an attention freak (was pissed off whenever he went to meetings and wasn't recognized or acknowledged) with a guru complex, IMO (like Newton).  He also came to his "spiritual awakening" under the influence of withdrawal and Bella Donna....hell who WOULDN'T have some kind of an awakening using that stuff?!  He is still revered to this day as a quasi-savior.

As I've said, I have no problem with like minded people getting together to support each other in a common goal.  I do have a problem with the literature and the sponsors.    They're treated like semi-gods and their word is gold.  I believe that is dangerous, as they have no qualifications to diagnose anyone or recommend anything medical.  Support is one thing, trying to get someone to follow your brand of religion/dogma is quite another.


Yes Max does write very eloquently, he knows how to capture his points and enlightens you to follow. His accounts of AA are accurate and educational.  

(http://williamborchert.com/index.html) / lois wison autobiography.

Anne, I feel sad to know that your first introduction to AA, had to be at the hands of Straight, your next was at a meeting obviously run by far right wing cultist members who were egotistical maniacs hell bent on discrediting Bill Wilson. I am not sure when you were introduced to the books (which really does not matter) but this completed your indoctrination.
 
The AA you are referring to here, your right does exist I am not proud to say this, I am also not proud to say that members of AA have committed murders, rapes, molestations, kidnapping, tax evasion, self mutilation, suicides, grand larcenies, felonies, misdemeanors, they have also done, I am proud to say marriages, conceived children, gotten jobs, became lawyers, doctors, judges, president of companies, bought companies, walk daughters down the isle, became grandparents and on and on.

My point AA represents America through n' through. We are not a program with LGAT's, peer pressure, breaking a person down, ridiculing and demeaning someone. All steps are suggestive in nature, all sponsoring is suggestive in nature. No one does any thing they do not want to do. Our doors are voluntarily open to everyone, all are welcome.

Anne, as I said above people make up AA and since AA does not govern or dictate what there groups will do or not do, you will see variations of AA being practiced. This is why it is great that we have so many meeting. If you don't like one find another.

About A.A.


Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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