Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?

[Eliscu2]

:cheers:

[Eliscu2]

:eek:

[Eliscu2]

:peace:

[Botched Programming]

:bump:

[Anne Bonney]

Yes Max does write very eloquently, he knows how to capture his points and enlightens you to follow. His accounts of AA are accurate and educational.  

(http://williamborchert.com/index.html) / lois wison autobiography.

Lois Wilson's "autobiography" was actually written by Bill himself.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-fun ... ality.html


Speaking of nutty attitudes about father's new sobriety, the Big Book chapter "To Wives" also contains a couple of real jewels. Bill wrote that absurd chapter himself (or possibly with some help from Joe Worth), in spite of the conceit that it was written by the women:

    As wives of Alcoholics Anonymous, we would like you to feel that we understand as perhaps few can. We want to analyze mistakes we have made.
    The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, page 104.

That's deceptive, to say the least. No matter how much the wives may have understood, and no matter how much "they would like you to feel" that they understand as perhaps few can, the truth is that the "wives of Alcoholics Anonymous" did not write a single word of that chapter. Bill Wilson asked Dr. Bob's wife Anne to write it, but she declined. Lois Wilson wanted to write it, and she also wanted to write the following chapter, The Family Afterwards, but Bill didn't trust her to get the "style" right, he said. That is an indication of Bill's real opinion of his wife's intellect. Bill Wilson wrote those chapters himself while pretending to be his own wife, and putting his words into her mouth. That hurt Lois' feelings, but that was just the way it was going to be.

Bill would not let even Lois, who was dying to do so, write the chapter titled "To Wives." After all, she was the wife who had endured Bill's drunken years and the houseful of alcoholics he was trying to wrestle into sobriety. "I have never known why he didn't want me to write about the wives, and it hurt me at first," she said.
Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous, Nan Robertson, pages 70-71.

Bill Wilson constantly hurt Lois Wilson, both before and after sobriety, what with his screaming temper tantrums, arrogant, inconsiderate behavior, philandering, and demanding that she work to support him. One evening, Lois Wilson exploded in anger when Bill Wilson wanted her to go to yet another Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. She screamed, "Damn your old meetings!" and threw a shoe at him.26 Lois Wilson's attitude was simply not acceptable to Bill Wilson. He couldn't have that. So Bill made up an explanation for Lois's anger where he had the imaginary wives saying:

Another feeling we are very likely to entertain is one of resentment that love and loyalty could not cure our husbands of alcoholism. We do not like the thought that the contents of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished in a few weeks that for which we struggled for years.
The A.A. Big Book, William G. Wilson, present in all editions of the book, from the 1939 multilithed manuscript through the 4th Edition, on page 118.

Anne, I feel sad to know that your first introduction to AA, had to be at the hands of Straight, your next was at a meeting obviously run by far right wing cultist members who were egotistical maniacs hell bent on discrediting Bill Wilson.

You're making an awful lot of untrue assumptions there DannyBoi.  Bill does a fine job of discrediting himself.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-fun ... ality.html

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-oth ... r_tantrums

I am not sure when you were introduced to the books (which really does not matter) but this completed your indoctrination.

Yes, my indoctrination INTO AA.
 

My point AA represents America through n' through. We are not a program with LGAT's, peer pressure, breaking a person down, ridiculing and demeaning someone.

Oh yes it does...it's just a more subtle form.  And "we"?  Are you speaking for all of AA?

All steps are suggestive in nature, all sponsoring is suggestive in nature.

AA cofounder Bill Wilson wrote that,  “unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant . . . We must obey certain principles or we die.” [/b]

Anne, as I said above people make up AA and since AA does not govern or dictate what there groups will do or not do, you will see variations of AA being practiced. This is why it is great that we have so many meeting. If you don't like one find another.

You seem to assume that I have limited experience with AA.  Nothing could be further from the truth and the majority of meetings I've been to (waaaaayyyy too many to count) do dictate and govern how people should live.

[DannyB II]

Yes Max does write very eloquently, he knows how to capture his points and enlightens you to follow. His accounts of AA are accurate and educational.  

(http://williamborchert.com/index.html) / lois wison autobiography.

Lois Wilson's "autobiography" was actually written by Bill himself.

No, Anne it was not. Bill died in 1971, Lois died 17 years later in 1988 (year I got sober). William G. Borchert, actually wanted no influence by Bill at all.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-fun ... ality.html


Speaking of nutty attitudes about father's new sobriety, the Big Book chapter "To Wives" also contains a couple of real jewels. Bill wrote that absurd chapter himself (or possibly with some help from Joe Worth), in spite of the conceit that it was written by the women:

    As wives of Alcoholics Anonymous, we would like you to feel that we understand as perhaps few can. We want to analyze mistakes we have made.
    The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, page 104.

That's deceptive, to say the least. No matter how much the wives may have understood, and no matter how much "they would like you to feel" that they understand as perhaps few can, the truth is that the "wives of Alcoholics Anonymous" did not write a single word of that chapter. Bill Wilson asked Dr. Bob's wife Anne to write it, but she declined. Lois Wilson wanted to write it, and she also wanted to write the following chapter, The Family Afterwards, but Bill didn't trust her to get the "style" right, he said. That is an indication of Bill's real opinion of his wife's intellect. Bill Wilson wrote those chapters himself while pretending to be his own wife, and putting his words into her mouth. That hurt Lois' feelings, but that was just the way it was going to be.

No Anne, you are wrong again. Dr.Bob Smith, Ebby, Lois, Anne and 100 others all had participation in writing the Big Book. The only book Bill actually wrote by himself (per say) was the Twelve and Twelve.

Bill would not let even Lois, who was dying to do so, write the chapter titled "To Wives." After all, she was the wife who had endured Bill's drunken years and the houseful of alcoholics he was trying to wrestle into sobriety. "I have never known why he didn't want me to write about the wives, and it hurt me at first," she said.
Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous, Nan Robertson, pages 70-71.

This is where you are wrong again, Bill and Bob leaned heavily on Lois, Anne and the few women who became members. Lois was a strong advocate of the language used in the Book. She then went on and used the same language when she started AL-Anon. We have to remember this was the 1930's.
I am not saying I agree with everything in the Book but I would like AA, represented accurately.

Bill Wilson constantly hurt Lois Wilson, both before and after sobriety, what with his screaming temper tantrums, arrogant, inconsiderate behavior, philandering, and demanding that she work to support him. One evening, Lois Wilson exploded in anger when Bill Wilson wanted her to go to yet another Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. She screamed, "Damn your old meetings!" and threw a shoe at him.26 Lois Wilson's attitude was simply not acceptable to Bill Wilson. He couldn't have that. So Bill made up an explanation for Lois's anger where he had the imaginary wives saying:

Not only did Bill hurt Lois he totally humiliated her with his "last will and testament".
He gave his mistress of 20 years 5% of his royalties. This was read to Lois by the estate attorney with no forwarning.

Another feeling we are very likely to entertain is one of resentment that love and loyalty could not cure our husbands of alcoholism. We do not like the thought that the contents of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished in a few weeks that for which we struggled for years.
The A.A. Big Book, William G. Wilson, present in all editions of the book, from the 1939 multilithed manuscript through the 4th Edition, on page 118.

Anne, I feel sad to know that your first introduction to AA, had to be at the hands of Straight, your next was at a meeting obviously run by far right wing cultist members who were egotistical maniacs hell bent on discrediting Bill Wilson.

You're making an awful lot of untrue assumptions there DannyBoi.  Bill does a fine job of discrediting himself.

Nope, Bill, does not discredit himself at all, Anne. Bill Wilson was just being Bill W. How many people have done what this man managed to do, not many. Well, when you have accomplished something phenomenal as Bill had done the notoriety follows. Everybody wants to know you and knit pick you.
Bill was a down and out drunk with a shit load of shortcomings in the 1930's trying to find a way to get sober himself and help others. Wall Street clerk with no knowledge of helping folks, creates and a dynasty. Anne, you know perfectly well, "men" will tear down any and all societies eventually.
 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-fun ... ality.html

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-oth ... r_tantrums

I am not sure when you were introduced to the books (which really does not matter) but this completed your indoctrination.

Yes, my indoctrination INTO AA.

Nope, wrong again. Not into AA, you were never "in". Outside on the periphery yes, but to scared (with good reason) to join up.
 

My point AA represents America through n' through. We are not a program with LGAT's, peer pressure, breaking a person down, ridiculing and demeaning someone.

Oh yes it does...it's just a more subtle form.  And "we"?  Are you speaking for all of AA?

Now, that would not be smart. No sadly I can not.

All steps are suggestive in nature, all sponsoring is suggestive in nature.

AA cofounder Bill Wilson wrote that,  “unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant . . . We must obey certain principles or we die.” [/b]

Anne here is a perfect example of how I know you were never "in" AA. Every healthy person has principles, without them you (ANNE) would die. Everyone "in" AA understands that sentence. Bill was making his point. Being a alcoholic myself, if I don't live by a set of principles when it comes to alcohol, I will die. Why??? Because when I drink, I drink irresponsibly.
Now, lets talk about life having principles and not having them. Which one would you choose Anne. Right, you would choose the life you have right now, with healthy principles.

Anne, as I said above people make up AA and since AA does not govern or dictate what there groups will do or not do, you will see variations of AA being practiced. This is why it is great that we have so many meeting. If you don't like one find another.

You seem to assume that I have limited experience with AA.  Nothing could be further from the truth and the majority of meetings I've been to (waaaaayyyy too many to count) do dictate and govern how people should live.

Anne, I hate saying this but your opinions show you have not been to really any meeting at all and the ones you did go to you were not paying attention. Most of your knowledge/opinions is straight from the Orange Papers, com'on give me a break. I am speaking from direct experience and your rebuttals are coming from a man that was disgruntled by AA.  
Anyways who cares.

Frodie may be right.....
Anne lets prove him wrong, we can debate this topic without name calling.

[Che Gookin]

In order to debate you have to at the very minimum try to discredit her sources by providing some of your own. You haven't done anything other than provide vague anecdotal information that at best was collected over the years via gossip and story telling.

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

[RTP2003]

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Botched Programming]

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Hey Anne... We need to plan a get together and have a few beers on your boat...  Will be cool to hang with ya..  :cheers:

[DannyB II]

In order to debate you have to at the very minimum try to discredit her sources by providing some of your own. You haven't done anything other than provide vague anecdotal information that at best was collected over the years via gossip and story telling.

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

Oh. I'm sorry I did not know that the OJ papers were an authority on the subject of AA. Next, as soon as someone with merit shows up, I'll be all in. Last Che, AA is all anecdotal, that is what makes it so unique.
We are not professionals but we have members that are professionals, there is no authority but we have structure and no one is in charge but God, as we understand him.  

Ya know what sad, Che, if Anne would stop being dishonest I would not have to say it. This goes for many here including yourself, with your self righteous comments the past few days.
Dude you have multiple personalities, do you know that.
Most here that have been blabbering on the last few days know that there opinions lack integrity yet they still post, they are resentful. Everyone of them came from Straight, Jeesh go figure.

[Che Gookin]

Thank you for confessing that AA really is all bullshit.

[Che Gookin]

In order to debate you have to at the very minimum try to discredit her sources by providing some of your own. You haven't done anything other than provide vague anecdotal information that at best was collected over the years via gossip and story telling.

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

Oh. I'm sorry I did not know that the OJ papers were an authority on the subject of AA. Next, as soon as someone with merit shows up, I'll be all in. Last Che, AA is all anecdotal(bullshit-fixed it for you), that is what makes it so unique.
We are not professionals but we have members that are professionals, there is no authority but we have structure and no one is in charge but God, as we understand him.

Can you cite a source that discredits the Orange papers? You are the one who has the burden of providing a merit worthy source to discredit the Orange Papers, you haven't done this yet, and I doubt you will due to your fixation with anecdotal twaddle. And again, thank your for admitting AA really is all bullshit.

[DannyB II]

Thank you for confessing that AA really is all bullshit.

That would be your perception, in your controlled life. Must have total control, I need studies, peer reviews, peer study groups, more college, peer support labs, more studying, professor am I doing life right.
I hope your happy, dude.

[DannyB II]

In order to debate you have to at the very minimum try to discredit her sources by providing some of your own. You haven't done anything other than provide vague anecdotal information that at best was collected over the years via gossip and story telling.

Anne is well ahead in this debate given your prime tactic seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming liar liar at the top of your lungs.

Oh. I'm sorry I did not know that the OJ papers were an authority on the subject of AA. Next, as soon as someone with merit shows up, I'll be all in. Last Che, AA is all anecdotal(bullshit-fixed it for you), that is what makes it so unique.
We are not professionals but we have members that are professionals, there is no authority but we have structure and no one is in charge but God, as we understand him.

Can you cite a source that discredits the Orange papers? You are the one who has the burden of providing a merit worthy source to discredit the Orange Papers, you haven't done this yet, and I doubt you will due to your fixation with anecdotal twaddle. And again, thank your for admitting AA really is all bullshit.

I have the burden of proof.... :roflmao:  :roflmao: Your a joke. Che your scrounging in dumpsters. Keep digging.

[Botched Programming]

Rubble rubble rubble rubble

Hey Danny I am sure that a few of us could chip in and buy you a few beers....  :cheers:   :seg: