Programs In Behrens Study Charged with Abuse

[Ursus]

Thanks, Paul.  I appreciate your looking out for me.  Sadly, Whooter believes in the "window of loss" philosophy that most program supporters believe.  That is, if some kids die from what the programs do to them...so be it.  We're bound to lose a few along the way.  Unfortunately, these deaths are 100% avoidable, but the program staff is usually uneducated, untrained and has no business working with kids and they ignore the kids' symptoms and just say they are "manipulating."  When the kid dies, they try to blame the kid.  It's sad.

Aspen programs have on eof the worst track records in this regard.  Over just the past few months several kids have died in their programs from completely preventable maladies.  Aspen programs are extremely dangerous and sometimes deadly.

DJ, stop acting like you are disconnected from this, you were part of this system that as you say, "committed these crimes". Yet we never hear about you in this anywhere. Ya know when Joel and Che speak they usually share their experiences as staff, not you.
DJ, you were staff and you were educated, so stop overcompensating here with this I'm all for Bla Bla Bla. It comes across phony.
Your buddy Paul thinks he has a hot case here, well, I will found out once and for all who is Danny and Whooter. I'll expose them if it is the last thing I do. Problem is, what is there to expose.
My purpose here is, to have balanced conversation.

Danny, how many of the "several people who post here under [your] user name" actually went to Elan or have any clue about this industry to begin with?

"Balanced conversation?" Lol. More like mayhem for the hell of it, eh?

[Troll Control]

So, the converstaion is about abuse at the Aspen programs in the Behrens study.  

So far we learned several were charged with abuse, one was shut down for abuse and at least one killed a child.  Please, converse on the topic.  We're trying to understand why Behrens concluded that child abuse helps children.

For the record, I never worked at an Aspen facility, so I'm not sure why you would say that.

[DannyB II]

Nice try Ursus, OOOOOoooohhhhhh DJ,
DJ, stop acting like you are disconnected from this, you were part of this system that as you say, "committed these crimes". Yet we never hear about you in this anywhere. Ya know when Joel and Che speak they usually share their experiences as staff, not you.
DJ, you were staff and you were educated, so stop overcompensating here with this I'm all for Bla Bla Bla. It comes across phony.
Your buddy Paul thinks he has a hot case here, well, I will found out once and for all who is Danny and Whooter. I'll expose them if it is the last thing I do. Problem is, what is there to expose.
My purpose here is, to have balanced conversation.

[Troll Control]

So, the converstaion is about abuse at the Aspen programs in the Behrens study.  

So far we learned several were charged with abuse, one was shut down for abuse and at least one killed a child.  Please, converse on the topic.  We're trying to understand why Behrens concluded that child abuse helps children.

For the record, I never worked at an Aspen facility, so I'm not sure why you would say that.

Just for clarity's sake, once more, I have never been associated with Aspen Education in any way, shape or form.  Still not sure why you're saying that.

Anything to add to the topic, Danny?  Or just doing some trolling tonight?

[DannyB II]

Danny wrote:
DJ, stop acting like you are disconnected from this, you were part of this system that as you say, "committed these crimes". Yet we never hear about you in this anywhere. Ya know when Joel and Che speak they usually share their experiences as staff, not you.
DJ, you were staff and you were educated, so stop overcompensating here with this I'm all for Bla Bla Bla. It comes across phony.
Your buddy Paul thinks he has a hot case here, well, I will found out once and for all who is Danny and Whooter. I'll expose them if it is the last thing I do. Problem is, what is there to expose.
My purpose here is, to have balanced conversation.

Ursus wrote
Danny, how many of the "several people who post here under [your] user name" actually went to Elan or have any clue about this industry to begin with?

"Balanced conversation?" Lol. More like mayhem for the hell of it, eh?

Danny wrote:
Well Mr.Ursus we all have been to a Treatment Center but as "Suck It" has shown us it is not that important to reveal the centers. No we are not here for "mayhem" or "for hell of it".
We are gradually moving away from our attack mode and moving into a congenial behavior.
You have to admit, upon first getting here 8-9 months ago we had it pretty rough here from folks. We are just now starting to get our feet under us and truly beginning to grasp a concept of what we want to do here.
Our objective is to communicate with everyone in a respectful manner, (at least try, we will not be Inculcated) and have a aura of openness not to be taken spiritually, only.
We are done fighting, it is stupid and accomplishes nothing. Our goals will never be met if we continue to go down the road we were going. Does this mean we are perfect, no, there are many who will not want to stop fighting with us but we have to be strong and show that we are serious. Play time is over, time to get down to business.
What is our business, honestly it is simple. To post our experiences and opinions truthfully. Simple, right. Well, it should be but that is not always the case.
Ursus try to not condescend to much and think your carrying the "mantle" here. As it states on the front of the Web Site here, "An open discussion about the troubled parent industry". I did not see where the founders wrote a "members only" clause in here. Though I do believe there are many here who believe there are "unwritten rules" here as far as posting goes, just my opinion. Enough said about that. I accept the conditions here, hey, I voted for O'bama in Georgia, in Woodstock Ga.(just outside of Kennesaw) 100% Republican and 98% white, so I know a little about going against the tide.
So as I have been saying, lets y'all move on, let bygones be bygones (or not) but in either case we will try very hard to show a respect for our fellows we had been lacking somewhat previous. Don't know exactly how this plays out but were going to give it a shot. Guys and gals of fornits go easy on us folks also.

[DannyB II]

Danny wrote:
DJ, stop acting like you are disconnected from this, you were part of this system that as you say, "committed these crimes". Yet we never hear about you in this anywhere. Ya know when Joel and Che speak they usually share their experiences as staff, not you.
DJ, you were staff and you were educated, so stop overcompensating here with this I'm all for Bla Bla Bla. It comes across phony.
Your buddy Paul thinks he has a hot case here, well, I will found out once and for all who is Danny and Whooter. I'll expose them if it is the last thing I do. Problem is, what is there to expose.
My purpose here is, to have balanced conversation.

Ursus wrote
Danny, how many of the "several people who post here under [your] user name" actually went to Elan or have any clue about this industry to begin with?

"Balanced conversation?" Lol. More like mayhem for the hell of it, eh?

Danny wrote:

Well Mr.Ursus we all have been to a Treatment Center but as "Suck It" has shown us it is not that important to reveal the centers. No we are not here for "mayhem" or "for hell of it".

We are gradually moving away from our attack mode and moving into a congenial behavior.
 
You have to admit, upon first getting here 8-9 months ago we had it pretty rough here from folks. We are just now starting to get our feet under us and truly beginning to grasp a concept of what we want to do here.

Our objective is to communicate with everyone in a respectful manner, (at least try, we will not be Inculcated) and have a aura of openness not to be taken spiritually, only.

We are done fighting, it is stupid and accomplishes nothing. Our goals will never be met if we continue to go down the road we were going. Does this mean we are perfect, no, there are many who will not want to stop fighting with us but we have to be strong and show that we are serious. Play time is over, time to get down to business.

What is our business, honestly it is simple. To post our experiences and opinions truthfully. Simple, right. Well, it should be but that is not always the case.
 
Ursus try to not condescend to much and think your carrying the "mantle" here. As it states on the front of the Web Site here, "An open discussion about the troubled parent industry". I did not see where the founders wrote a "members only" clause in here. Though I do believe there are many here who believe there are "unwritten rules" here as far as posting goes, just my opinion.
 
Enough said about that.
 
I accept the conditions here, hey, I voted for O'bama in Georgia, in Woodstock Ga.(just outside of Kennesaw) 100% Republican and 98% white, so I know a little about going against the tide.

So as I have been saying, lets y'all move on, let bygones be bygones (or not) but in either case we will try very hard to show a respect for our fellows we had been lacking somewhat previous.
 
Don't know exactly how this plays out but were going to give it a shot. Guys and gals of fornits go easy on us folks also.

[Troll Control]

OK, so what we have so far is that the Behrens study concluded that abusing children is effective in biasing them to self-report improvement in order to be allowed to leave the program.

Programs Included in Behrens' Work:

ASR - cited for child abuse by the state of MA
MBA - forcibly closed for "systematic child abuse and neglect" by the state of OR
Youth Care - killed a boy through neglect and was cited by state authorities

Anyone have further info on the other programs behrens concluded were "effective"?

Let's stick to the topic, folks.  We're talking abusive Aspen facilities and their inclusion in the Behrens work.

Back to the topic, people.

[Troll Control]

Not only have these programs abused and even killed children, the Behrens study shows a "success rate" of less than forty percent of the rate of traditional treatment:

Let's have a look at Behrens' numbers from her report:

31% reported improvement that exceeded the 2 standard deviation cut-off for reliable change (>28 raw score points) and 50% reported improvement below the cut-off for reliable change.

So, after up to two years of being at Aspen programs, the reliable change data rate for participants is a mere 31% compared to 60-80% for traditional inpatient treatment.  And this is self-report data that Behrens admits is biased to make the kids look better than they actually are to justify their being discharged.  Unbiased data would show a much lower number.

No wonder Whooter doesn't want to talk about Behrens!  He only wants to talk about the other researchers who studied traditional treatment and try to conflate the two.

Aspen - up to 2 years and up to $175K for a 31% positive change self-report with no follow up to assess permanency of change

Traditional - up to 90 days, covered by insurance, 60-80% improvement in longitudinal clinical trials

[Anne Bonney]

A gunman allegedly shot dead three people after a drunken argument in the queue at a McDonald's all-night drive-through in Finland turned deadly, police say.

Why does McDonalds conduct studies on their food and not revel the fact that people are dying at their restaurants?   Why wasnt this picked up?  Wasnt death part of their study?  Who oversaw all these studies?  If this study was peer reviewed by Burger King then it would never have been released!!

Charges Filed in Death of Brendan Blum
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caretakers at Draper youth care center charged with child abuse in death of 14-year-old

By Jason Bergreen
The Salt Lake Tribune Article
Last Updated: 10/11/2007 05:22:00 PM MDT

Two caretakers at a Draper assisted-living facility were charged Thursday with failing to provide medical aid to a 14-year-old resident who died under their supervision in June. Jorge Ramirez and Deborah Cole were both on duty at Youth Care Inc. on June 27 when 14-year-old Brendan Blum of Santa Barbara, Calif., died.

An autopsy concluded that Blum died from an inadequate blood supply to his small bowel, according to a criminal complaint filed in 3rd District Court. On the night of his death, Blum had a loss of bowel control, vomited and complained of stomach pain, but Ramirez and Cole did not provide or seek medical help for him, the complaint states.

Blum was found dead on the morning of June 28. A state medical examiner concluded that Blum's death could have been prevented if he had been given medical attention.

"Secure treatment facilities are responsible for providing appropriate medical treatment and care for the children entrusted to their supervision," Salt Lake County District Attorney Lohra Miller said in a news release. "In this case, it is alleged that a young boy's need for emergency medical treatment was ignored and that this negligence resulted in the boy's death." Miller also said that state law requires that treatment facilities and their employees be held to a "heightened standard of care."

Blum was at the facility because he had Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder related to autism.

Cole and Ramirez are each charged with one third-degree felony count of abuse or neglect of a child. The crime is punishable by up to five years in jail.

--> LINK for the above two articles.

[Anne Bonney]

Classic.  I never thought people would be this upset over a study being done of the industry.  I thought you guys would try to down play it, but WOW!!  this has really rocked your boat.

all that  "Show me a study"!!!  lol

ooops, now what do I do?    Hmmmm... maybe try to discredit the study?  Only thing left to do.

Actually, we've always asked for longitudinal, clinical, peer reviewed studies.  At least that's what I've always been asking for and not one program supporter has ever been able to deliver on it.  You just keep throwing up Aspen's exit surveys and try and pass them off as something substantial.  They're not.  They're a marketing ploy.  But you already knew that.

[Anne Bonney]

DJ, stop acting like you are disconnected from this, you were part of this system that as you say, "committed these crimes". Yet we never hear about you in this anywhere. Ya know when Joel and Che speak they usually share their experiences as staff, not you.

Nor do you.  We keep asking about the girl that you supposedly dragged around behind a van as a therapeutic tool, but you never do answer.

Your buddy Paul thinks he has a hot case here, well, I will found out once and for all who is Danny and Whooter. I'll expose them if it is the last thing I do.

 :beat:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

My purpose here is, to have balanced conversation.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[Troll Control]

Classic.  I never thought people would be this upset over a study being done of the industry.  I thought you guys would try to down play it, but WOW!!  this has really rocked your boat.

all that  "Show me a study"!!!  lol

ooops, now what do I do?    Hmmmm... maybe try to discredit the study?  Only thing left to do.

Actually, we've always asked for longitudinal, clinical, peer reviewed studies.  At least that's what I've always been asking for and not one program supporter has ever been able to deliver on it.  You just keep throwing up Aspen's exit surveys and try and pass them off as something substantial.  They're not.  They're a marketing ploy.  But you already knew that.

Anne, Whooter no longer even mentions the Behrens study now that he can't deny their whopping 31% success rate versus 60-80% at non-Aspen facilities.  He has dropped his claims after a couple weeks of lying about what's in the study.  

Now he only cites Curry, 1991; Curtis et al., 2001; Epstein, 2004; Hair, 2005; Wells, 1991 who studied non-Aspen facilities.  He shitcanned Behrens after holding her out as a modern-day messiah for the last four years.  Even he abondoned Aspen's FUBARed "study" marketing program.

[Troll Control]

This thread is now the #1 Google return if you enter "Behrens study" in the engine.  

Thanks to Whooter's obsessive/compulsive replying, now anyone searching for Behrens gets the first hit on "Programs in Behrens Study Charged with Abuse."  Somehow I don't think this POV was the one he intended to present. :notworthy:  :nods:  :cheers:  :roflmao:

But it's good news anyway.

[Paul St. John]

did not see where the founders wrote a "members only" clause in here. Though I do believe there are many here who believe there are "unwritten rules" here as far as posting goes, just my opinion. Enough said about that. I accept the conditions here, hey, I voted for O'bama in Georgia, in Woodstock Ga.(just outside of Kennesaw) 100% Republican and 98% white, so I know a little about going against the tide.

No shit... Most of my family lives in Woodstock, GA.  Maybe it's a coincidence, that you chose to write that, but probably not.  You have been frequenting my  facebook page, so you would know that.

You have tried friending me in the past couple of days, and even sent me a message offering to take me and my friends out on your friend's boat, fishing.  And you thought it would be a great opportunity for me to meet your son.  I never responded, because I knew that you were just trying to buy my support on Fornits.

In regards to the Woodstock reference, I'm not gonna say anything Danny.  If you know anything about me, you already know.

Paul St. John

[Troll Control]

We all know about Mount Bachelor Academy's recent closure due to child abuse and neglect and that Aspen Education has claimed in court that it provides no therapy.  

MBA was one of the programs that was studied in Behrens' work.  The fact that MBA was closed for abusing children and that Behrens concluded MBA was "effective" despite offering no therapy and abusing hundreds of children is terribly troubling to say the least.

Here's a list of the all of the programs she looked at:

Academy at Swift River, Aspen Ranch, Copper Canyon Academy, Mount Bachelor Academy, Stone Mountain School, Pine Ridge Academy, SunHawk Academy,Turnabout Ranch, and Youth Care, Inc.

Academy at Swift River has been cited by state authorities for child abuse.  

How many of the others have been as well?  Are there any untainted entities in this study?

Here's a sworn statement from a Copper Canyon staff member:

* Many of the staff members were very rude to the girls. They seemed to think the girls were the "enemy" and that you must treat them with hostility in order to make them obedient. They saw how I spoke to the girls respectfully, and I know this was not okay with them. They treated me badly as a result, worse than I have ever been treated at any job.

* Girls were expected to learn all the rules within 3 days, and after that point they were responsible (and could be given "work hours" etc. if they broke rules). But there were so many rules, and not all of them were listed in the book. I brought this up to some of the staff (including supervisors), and they said the girls should be able to learn the rules from word of mouth. But I couldn't even learn all the rules! And I had trouble enforcing them when I didn't know them because they weren't all written down. The staff members seemed to think I should just somehow know them. But my opinion is that in a system like theirs (in any authoritarian kind of system), they like to keep the rules somewhat a mystery so that people will break them. The people who run these kinds of systems want to punish others!

* Girls were occasionally put on silence, meaning no speaking except for things like "I need to use the bathroom". Sometimes the silencing lasted for several days.

* I heard at least one staff member make fun of a lesbian girl about her sexuality.

* I read in the handbook that girls could be sent to the school for problems such as depression, drug addiction, difficulty in school, and quite an assortment of other things. We staff members were never told what problems each girl had when she arrived (unless other staff members knew, but nobody ever told me). So one day I asked a staff supervisor about one particular girl. I wasn't sure if anyone was willing to tell me anything or not, but I figured it was worth a try. But the staff supervisor seemed very angry at my question, and went off for a while about how all the girls deserved to be there. She spoke of it as if this boarding school was a punishment for naughty behavior. So I wondered, does this woman think that suffering with depression deserves punishment? Did she realize that some girls were there simply because they were depressed? Of course, I don't think any of the girls deserved what they got in that place, no matter what they had done in order to end up there.

* A girl who attempted to run away was made to sleep on a mattress on the bathroom floor for a few days. She was also dropped to a negative level, which meant she could have only one shirt, one pair of pants, one bra, one pair of socks, and one pair of underwear. The poor girl was on her period at the time, which must have made it even more uncomfortable, and I remember wondering if they would give her new clothes if she happened to bleed through them. I figured they wouldn't, and I already knew at that point that they didn't appreciate questions or suggestions from me.

* One day when all the girls were running the track (as a punishment for being too noisy at a mealtime), one of the girls asked me if I could go and get her inhaler (she obviously needed it). I said yes, of course, and went to go get it. Then the staff supervisor stepped in to tell me not to give her inhaler to her (she was quite rude to me, too, I might add). So I asked her at what point we should give a girl her inhaler, and the woman replied something like "when she's huffing and puffing and her lips are turning blue". She said it with such malice, too.

* The girls all had to read "Ten Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up Their Lives", by Dr. Laura Schlessinger, and write a report on it. I wanted to give the girls another viewpoint, so I brought in an article critiquing Dr. Laura. The staff supervisors found out about this, and they brought me into the office to tell me I was not permitted to do such a thing. It was obvious that they didn't want the girls to be exposed to viewpoints other than those held by the school. No, they wanted them to swallow whatever they taught them, no questions asked, no independent thinking whatsoever!

Sounds like an abusive quack factory to me.  Every time we look into these programs in the Behrens study, we find this type problem.  

Are there any at all that haven't been exposed for abuse?  What the hell was  Behrens thinking when she studied these programs?  No wonder she doesn't talk about progrram methodology in her report.