Civil discussion: Troubled Teen Industry

[Troll Control]

Go to WWASPS info and you'll see it is happening today.  WWASPS uses isolation cells to control kids' behavior.

[Whooter]

Go to WWASPS info and you'll see it is happening today.  WWASPS uses isolation cells to control kids' behavior.

I did check the web site and Spring Creek Lodge (The one with the Hobbit) is closed, DJ.  Just want the readers to know this.



...

[DannyB II]

Would you two take this elsewhere please.
You are disturbing a thread that has nothing
to do with your squabble.

Thanks

[Troll Control]

This lawsuit details the use of isolation cells, abuse, neglect, etc. at WWASPS facilites including several that are still operating.

WWASPS is still operating and still using isolation cells.  It can't be swept under the rug.

[Whooter]

This lawsuit details the use of isolation cells, abuse, neglect, etc. at WWASPS facilites including several that are still operating.

WWASPS is still operating and still using isolation cells.  It can't be swept under the rug.

WWASPS is still operating, yes.  I wouldn't send my child to a WWASPS program.  But we need to be honest with the readers.  If we are referencing a program which has been closed and their use of the "hobbit" we should indicate that clearly.  I was pointing out that you were using the present tense in your reference to Spring Creek Lodge and the use of the Hobbit.  Many posters do that here and I think it is deceiving to those who are new here.
Nothing against you personally, you may have had good intentions.



...

[Ursus]

Go to WWASPS info and you'll see it is happening today.  WWASPS uses isolation cells to control kids' behavior.

I did check the web site and Spring Creek Lodge (The one with the Hobbit) is closed, DJ.  Just want the readers to know this.

Yep. And I imagine that a good number of Lifers amongst the former staff went on to other programs, be they other WWASP facilities or some new hybrids... I'm sure you'll want the readers to know this, Whooter.

Spring Creek Lodge's Mickey Manning teamed up with Lorne Riddell (founder of another program which I can't recall at the moment) to open RiverView Academy a few months ago.

Mickey Manning being interviewed while at SCL / SCL students:

"As far as the kids are concerned, they are going to manipulate to the hills, because that's what these kids do."

— Mickey Manning

[/size]

[Whooter]

Go to WWASPS info and you'll see it is happening today.  WWASPS uses isolation cells to control kids' behavior.

I did check the web site and Spring Creek Lodge (The one with the Hobbit) is closed, DJ.  Just want the readers to know this.

Yep. And I imagine that a good number of Lifers amongst the former staff went on to other programs, be they other WWASP facilities or some new hybrids... I'm sure you'll want the readers to know this, Whooter.

Spring Creek Lodge's Mickey Manning teamed up with Lorne Riddell (founder of another program which I can't recall at the moment) to open RiverView Academy a few months ago.

Mickey Manning being interviewed while at SCL / SCL students:

"As far as the kids are concerned, they are going to manipulate to the hills, because that's what these kids do."

— Mickey Manning

[/size]

See now this is current information, thank you Ursus.  If we get news that they built and isolation chamber or a "Hobbit" then this would be of concern to parents considering sending their kids there.

Just assuming all programs are "good" or all programs are "bad" are dangerous assumptions.



...

[Froderik]

"to the hills"?  :timeout:

Didn't that knuckleheaded woman mean to say "to the hilt"?

[Troll Control]

Go to WWASPS info and you'll see it is happening today.  WWASPS uses isolation cells to control kids' behavior.

I did check the web site and Spring Creek Lodge (The one with the Hobbit) is closed, DJ.  Just want the readers to know this.

Yep. And I imagine that a good number of Lifers amongst the former staff went on to other programs, be they other WWASP facilities or some new hybrids... I'm sure you'll want the readers to know this, Whooter.

Spring Creek Lodge's Mickey Manning teamed up with Lorne Riddell (founder of another program which I can't recall at the moment) to open RiverView Academy a few months ago.

Mickey Manning being interviewed while at SCL / SCL students:

"As far as the kids are concerned, they are going to manipulate to the hills, because that's what these kids do."

— Mickey Manning

[/size]

This facility is the old Spring Creek Lodge.  It has been reopened under a new name by the old SCL players.

On the evening of Friday, Sept. 9, a 16-year-old boy was found approximately 30 feet below the lip of a cliff above the Clark Fork River west of Thompson Falls. The boy was a student at Spring Creek Lodge Academy, a specialty boarding school in Sanders County and member of the World Wide Association of Specialty Schools and Programs (WWASPS). Two sources close to Spring Creek told the Independent that Adrian Sanders was being transported from Spring Creek to an associated facility in Jamaica when he escaped his teen transport service, Second Chance Transport of Thompson Falls. He was later found by search and rescue personnel below the cliffs behind the Rimrock Lodge motel, one mile west of Thompson Falls on State Hwy 200. He was transported to Clark Fork Valley Hospital in Plains.

Details of the incident and the extent of the boy’s injuries have been hard to come by.

Queries directed to traditional sources of information including the local sheriff’s department, ambulance service and hospital, have turned up little or no information. It is still unknown if an investigation into the boy’s attempted escape and subsequent fall and injury was ever conducted.

The level of secrecy surrounding even minor details related to the incident is startling. Officials at the Clark Fork Valley Hospital refuse to confirm whether the boy was ever a patient. A Thompson Falls Volunteer Ambulance official refuses to comment on whether or not the ambulance company even responded to the incident. The local sheriff says there was no investigation into or documentation of the incident other than an EMS/Fire initial dispatch report, which includes 18 lines of frustratingly vague narrative of the response to the incident. The private company responsible for transporting Adrian Sanders refused to comment other than to say that their charge suffered a “minor concussion” and that everything “turned out fine.” Neither Spring Creek Lodge’s director nor the school’s principal returned phone calls regarding the incident. A spokeswoman for Spring Creek said the school is “not authorized to give information on the student.” Information on where Adrian Sanders is from, why he was being transported, how he escaped, the extent of his injuries and the nature of the rescue have all been withheld from the Independent or were never documented.

The day before Adrian Sanders’ fall, Spring Creek’s principal, Michele “Mickey” Manning, took her seat on the new governor-appointed Private Alternative Adolescent Residential or Outdoor Programs board.

Kids were literally willing to risk death to escape the clutches of Mickey Manning and her associates.

[Whooter]

Yep. And I imagine that a good number of Lifers amongst the former staff went on to other programs, be they other WWASP facilities or some new hybrids... I'm sure you'll want the readers to know this, Whooter.

I think anyone who has been in an industry and has changed jobs (or has done any hiring) knows this.  If a guy has 10 – 15 years working in a program and then it gets shut down their marketability is whatever they have done for the past 10 – 15 years and can attain the best salary by staying with what they are experienced in.  If the new program has lifesteps then they will do life steps, if it doesn’t then they wont do it.  Employees cannot redesign the model.  

Why does this continue to be a big deal for you Ursus?  You can walk into say Aetna Insurance Company in Hartford today and talk to 100 employees who had previous jobs before taking a job at Aetna and you would find that the lions share or close to 90% (I would be willing to bet) would have come from John Hancock, Prudential, Allstate etc or other insurance companies…. people stick with what they know and what they have experience with.  This is not just unique to programs.



...

[RobertBruce]

WWASPS is still operating, yes. I wouldn't send my child to a WWASPS program.

Didn't you claim to have sent your imaginary daughter to a wwasp program?

[DannyB II]

Yep. And I imagine that a good number of Lifers amongst the former staff went on to other programs, be they other WWASP facilities or some new hybrids... I'm sure you'll want the readers to know this, Whooter.

I think anyone who has been in an industry and has changed jobs (or has done any hiring) knows this.  If a guy has 10 – 15 years working in a program and then it gets shut down their marketability is whatever they have done for the past 10 – 15 years and can attain the best salary by staying with what they are experienced in.  If the new program has lifesteps then they will do life steps, if it doesn’t then they wont do it.  Employees cannot redesign the model.  

Why does this continue to be a big deal for you Ursus?  You can walk into say Aetna Insurance Company in Hartford today and talk to 100 employees who had previous jobs before taking a job at Aetna and you would find that the lions share or close to 90% (I would be willing to bet) would have come from John Hancock, Prudential, Allstate etc or other insurance companies…. people stick with what they know and what they have experience with.  This is not just unique to programs.

...

Oh but according to Ursus, DJ and the rest here this lateral movement is paramount to a conspiracy, a ongoing clandestine operation to make sure that the, "Abusive, Corrupt, Education Depravity and Thought Manipulative Programs" stay open.

I now believe they all meet right after the G-20 summits, ya know so there hidden. Every program from the TTI in the world meet and discuss how they will continue there assault on the youth of this world.

Ya know because we want more disturbed, drug addicted and uneducated kids on our streets, creating more claims for the Insurance Industry to take advantage of, Big Pharma to practice experimental drugs on and Adult programs to maximize on.

Politicians are having a field day also spinning and weaving alongside there lobbyist.

Watching all these components connected to the TTI it is like watching the Philadelphia Philharmonic, what a orchestra of events.

It is Sunday morning and I thought I would give my two cents, I was not invited to any of the Sunday News Shows, so I decided to entertain you folks.

This is why I call It a, "ISOLATED INCIDENT" because it is.

[Troll Control]

Here's an "isolated incident" in which the state ruled that Aspen Education was systematically abusing SEVENTY-SEVEN CHILDREN in their care.

I agree with a lot of what you say, DJ.  But they concluded that there were only 9 substantiated cases of abuse.  There were many "findings" but the findings have not been substantiated as of yet except 9 of them.  I am sure the number will rise once they decipher which they can substantiate and which of the findings they cannot.
But at this point only 9 are substantiated which is about 10%, not 100%.

That is not quite how the Department of Human Services in the state of Oregon saw it.

From the Complaint and Order to Correct Conditions, color emphasis added:

In October 2009, the Office of Investigations and Training (OIT) completed its investigation and determined that eight allegations of abuse involving five individual students were substantiated against the agency, Mt. Bachelor Academy. The report indicates that the abuse allegations are "exemplars" in that these five clients' experience is not unique and is "substantially consistent" with the experience of all children enrolled in the program. The report further substantiated an allegation of abuse against the Executive Director. The Executive Director either knew of the abusive practices of the agency, or she should have known what was happening under her authority.[/list]

From the above transcribed Order of Emergency License Suspension:

Ultimate Findings of Fact: DHS finds that due to MBA's abuse and neglect of students and violations of the licensing rules listed above, MBA poses a serious danger to public health or safety should MBA be permitted to continue operating as a therapeutic boarding school for children. DHS finds that a condition exists that immediately endangers the health or safety of the children at MBA should MBA be permitted to continue providing therapeutic, educational and residential services to children.[/list]

So there is an indication that the 8 substantiated abuses are typical of what the rest of the students endured in the reports findings.  So there is a strong possibility that they will conclude that all the kids (100%) were abused.
 



...

"Isolated Incident," my ass.  It's the program game plan.

[Troll Control]

Not sure what a "cow web" is but the report is just a couple of months old.  You are always saying "that happened thirty years ago!" but this happened a few months ago.  It's obviously relevent, pertinent and contemporary.  But, the point is it was happening thirty years ago and it's happening now - nothing has changed.

[DannyB II]

Here's an "isolated incident" in which the state ruled that Aspen Education was systematically abusing SEVENTY-SEVEN CHILDREN in their care.

I agree with a lot of what you say, DJ.  But they concluded that there were only 9 substantiated cases of abuse.  There were many "findings" but the findings have not been substantiated as of yet except 9 of them.  I am sure the number will rise once they decipher which they can substantiate and which of the findings they cannot.
But at this point only 9 are substantiated which is about 10%, not 100%.

That is not quite how the Department of Human Services in the state of Oregon saw it.

From the Complaint and Order to Correct Conditions, color emphasis added:

In October 2009, the Office of Investigations and Training (OIT) completed its investigation and determined that eight allegations of abuse involving five individual students were substantiated against the agency, Mt. Bachelor Academy. The report indicates that the abuse allegations are "exemplars" in that these five clients' experience is not unique and is "substantially consistent" with the experience of all children enrolled in the program. The report further substantiated an allegation of abuse against the Executive Director. The Executive Director either knew of the abusive practices of the agency, or she should have known what was happening under her authority.[/list]

From the above transcribed Order of Emergency License Suspension:

Ultimate Findings of Fact: DHS finds that due to MBA's abuse and neglect of students and violations of the licensing rules listed above, MBA poses a serious danger to public health or safety should MBA be permitted to continue operating as a therapeutic boarding school for children. DHS finds that a condition exists that immediately endangers the health or safety of the children at MBA should MBA be permitted to continue providing therapeutic, educational and residential services to children.[/list]

So there is an indication that the 8 substantiated abuses are typical of what the rest of the students endured in the reports findings.  So there is a strong possibility that they will conclude that all the kids (100%) were abused.
 



...

"Isolated Incident," my ass.  It's the program game plan.

DJ, you have worn this out, move on.