Author Topic: High Impact  (Read 13838 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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High Impact
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2003, 01:38:00 PM »
I cannot speak for Karen, but I can use her terms:  "I assume, I believe", which by and of themselves do not void any comments which follow, despite other poster's comments to the contrary....

OK, Karen has told me and the whole world several times over that she pulled her son when she finally put together enough "hunch" intuitive feelings that Dundee was not what she wanted to help her son.  She continued on with the BBS, but was alarmed when former student Ryan Pink (look it up; his well-written statements are archived) came on the BBS with statements of abuse at TB.  She added to the thread with questions about the allegations, as well as questions as to the Mormon influence (which went counter to her preferred religious practices).  She was summarily booted within seconds of this posting.

Now, this isn't hard to understand, is it?  Nothing really subversive...sorry.  Not much fun when the truth is really simple, is it?
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Offline anon

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« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2003, 01:40:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 14:19 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2003, 02:33:00 PM »
anybody that's every been involved in any kind of legal action knows it takes time and is important to come with your guns loaded...I'd be worried it they went ahead too soon...as it is the TEEN HELPERS better rest up while they can...cause it's gonna come like a thud...

 :grin:
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Offline Carey

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« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2003, 03:10:00 PM »
Quote
As for weather or not it was a group decision - I know more about that than you do - and If you'll tell the truth , you'll admit I tried very hard to get you to calm down and back off so as to prevent your being tossed again. You wouldn't listen to good advice then, just as you won't listen now.

That is pretty funny. Who WAS giving me good advice?  Who IS giving me good advice?  You?  :lol:

Let's talk about why I was booted, again.  
It was because I wanted the pictures of High Impact given to the media.  Sue, and others, were against that.  They wanted to save them for the "class action" law suit.

Let me refresh your memory:

Quote
Yes, I was removed from the list because the people on the list did not want to hear what I had to say about it, they prefer to keep the pictures to use in a court case that could take up to a year to ever even happen. A year is a long time for kids to have to wait to be saved, especially knowing there is evidence out there right now that would help parents to see the the truth now, today.

Most of the people on the list have kids who are already home, they don't see the need to move quickly to save those who are still in these programs. So the need of urgency is less important to them. The need for "revenge" for lack of a better word, is on the top of their list. I want accountabiltiy and I want to prosecute those guilty of child abuse but I want kids out of these programs and safe first. I want the parents to have all information that is available out there for them to view. Then we can go after and make accountable those who have profited off of this terrible "child warehousing institution."

I don't care what media they use, it does not have to be on Lon's website. However, I was asked by the person who owns the pictures to see if Lon was willing to post them. He said he could not and suggested that they be taken to the media.

I know if my boys were still in a WWASP program and I found out someone was holding evidence that would show me what can and has happened in one of these schools then I would hold them accountable for letting it continue to happen. I don't think you should hold on to evidence for a court case when it could help save kids today.


By the way, why were they released to Inside Edition now?  Hmm...why did the "groups" mind change all of a sudden?  Do you suppose all of the groupies now realize I was right?  Looks that way.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2003, 03:36:00 PM »
Let's talk about why I was booted, again.

PLEASE, LET'S NOT.

SOME OF US ARE SICK OF HEARING IT. WOULD YOU PLEASE JUST POST THE LINK TO YOUR PREVIOUS RESPONSE AND STOP TAKING UP BAND WIDTH TO ARGUE WITH THE SAME PERSON ABOUT THE SAME ISSUE REPEATEDLY.  

WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE PICTURES, ETC BEFORE TOO.
AS I RECALL, THEY CLAIMED YOU WANTED TO POST THE PICTURES ON STRUGGLING TEENS. I THINK THEY MADE A WISER CHOICE GOING WITH INSIDE EDITION...IF INDEED THE PICTURES IN QUESTION WERE USED IN THE PIECE.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2003, 03:38:00 PM »
Carey - you wanted to send some still photos to Lon Woodburry.
When you hit resistance from the group, you got more and more agitated and belligerent.
Then you got tossed.
It was just that simple.
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Offline Carey

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« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2003, 03:41:00 PM »
Quote
THEY CLAIMED YOU WANTED TO POST THE PICTURES ON STRUGGLING TEENS. I THINK THEY MADE A WISER CHOICE GOING WITH INSIDE EDITION..


Hey Shannon, I mean Anon, who is they?  By the way, "they" for got to tell you that it did not matter to me where it was posted, whether on Lon's site or where ever.  I suggested the media, but they wanted to hold on to the information for the "class action" all the while your kid was still in the program.  That doesn't bother you.  I would think it should.  It might have saved your child some pain and suffering.

I love it when I am told to quit discussing certain topics.  Let me make a suggestion to you.  Why don't you just not read them.  Then I can post what I want and you can read what you want and we both will be happy.
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Offline Carey

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« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2003, 03:44:00 PM »
Quote
Carey - you wanted to send some still photos to Lon Woodburry.
When you hit resistance from the group, you got more and more agitated and belligerent.
Then you got tossed.
It was just that simple.


Really.  Could you please post those discussions for us?  That is the agitated and belligerent ones.  The only ones I have are the ones sent to Sue and to BK. And, these were sent to Sue and BK after I was booted. I would like to see the other agitated and belligerent ones you claim exist. So please, provide the evidence.  You do know evidence is important when you make an accusation.

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-26 12:48 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2003, 06:39:00 PM »
:idea:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2003, 08:30:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-09-26 10:40:00, KarenZ wrote:

"The story is up all over the place. My son was pulled months before Kay booted me.



If you really want to know - look it up.





This post can be found on the Bridge To Understanding Discussion Forum.

http://www.bridgetounderstanding.com/cg ... ?read=1449

Academy at Dundee Ranch/wwasp/teen help

Posted by Karen Burnett on Tuesday, 6 May 2003, at 10:41 p.m. (eastern time)

The Following is my account of my family's WWASP experience.

To whom it may concern,

I'm writing in regard to TeenHelp/World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools/ WWASP. Their Program in Costa Rica is the Academy at Dundee Ranch.

I would like to tell you about my and my sons experience with WWASP. I'll attempt to be brief.

My son began using drugs and drinking at about age 15. By 16 he had lost control of the situation, was expelled from his school, robbing us blind, running away, coming home stoned - lots of worrisome stuff.

None of the less restrictive measures where able to make any difference - so I went looking for a residential situation that might.

I found WWASP/teenhelp on Lon Woodburry's web sight - strugglingteens.com.

I spent several months calling and asking questions. I did speak with other unrelated residential programs, but cost was a hindrance. WWASP had programs out of the States, which I was told made them more affordable, as the dollar was so strong in these countries. We are not a wealthy family, and I was paying for this with what I had just inherited from my father's estate - so funds where limited.

The program sounded great. I was sent a list of parents to contact, and they all said it was great. I could find nothing negative anywhere. I ended up having my son escorted to Academy at Dundee ranch, in April of 2002.

I'd like to try at this point and give you an idea of the ways in which I was mislead and manipulated by WWASP.

I was told a student with a profile and history like my son's could expect to graduate within 6 months. Graduating the program is the all important goal. Once he was at Dundee, and I was able to access the WWASP parent's bulletin board, the BBS, I soon realized this 6 month time frame was a farce. Even a year would be conservative, and two years appeared to be the average, although, I also noticed, younger students seemed to take much longer. Three or Four years wasn't unusual. I have come to feel there are many ways to slow down and sabotage a student's progress, and the motivation to do so is a powerful one - money.

I was also mislead about the basic nature of the program. I was lead to believe it was a school. I asked about this specifically. Repeatedly. I didn't want a hospital like placement, or a placement where many of the students had emotional or mental health issues. I needed and wanted a residential drug rehab with a good educational program.
I was told in answer to my questions, the program was a boarding school type of environment, with a therapeutic eliminate, which was daily group sessions, and emotional growth seminars. I thought I understood what this meant, but I was mistaken. The group sessions where not related to drug rehab in any meaningful way. Nor where the seminars what I had believed them to be. This I came to slowly understand from my activity on the BBS.

The 'school' consist of computer classes, with no actual instruction from an actual teacher. I had been told all the Program schools where fully accredited, but this wasn't true. Dundee didn't attain accreditation until sometime after my son arrived, and much of his early work was wasted. He found it impossible to take anything that needed explaining, such as algebra. He mostly spent his time doing minor electives he could manage from a store of basic common knowledge. It turns out "working the Program" is the first and foremost with education being of far less importance.

It also turned out that there where in fact a large number of students with emotional and mental health issues. It is apparently believed this particular program is a one size fits all cure.

As I mentioned, there was no actual drug rehab component, and the education wasn't of the high quality I had been lead to believe; also, the true nature of the seminars wasn't something I wanted to be part of, as the beliefs and practices they promote, conflict with many of our family's beliefs as evangelical Christians. And so I began looking for a different placement, and transferred my son out of the WWASP program at Dundee, to the Abundant Life Academy, in August of 2002.

At this point, I began to learn of things I had been mislead about, that are of a very serious nature.

I was told the program was points and levels based. Points where gained or lost, depending on how a student did in several areas of behavior, and levels gained or lost depending on the number of points. Gaining levels being desired, as it not only leads to graduating the program, but also more privileges; Such as field trips and activities, like maybe a dance or a movie.
Even calls home to Mom and Dad are considered a privilege that must be earned. I was mislead about this as well. I had been told my son couldn't call home until attaining level three. I was lead to believe this might take a couple or three weeks. This wasn't really alarming. I soon learned it could and would take much longer, three or four Months being a more appropriate estiment. Some go for much longer than that - many, many months, with no calls home allowed.

The Points and levels where the only form of 'consequence' ever mentioned prior to enrollment.

I was never told, in any way shape or form, that Food is part of the reward system. I don't mean just the use of condiments. I mean food. My son felt he was being starved. He was always hungry. Hunger became a real issue for him and was always present. I think I understand now, why the new and lower level kids are kept hungry, but I'll just ask you to believe me when I say he was in fact kept hungry, for whatever reason.

I was also not told the program has a method of punishment that mirrors a practice that was inflicted on prisoners of Devils Island, Observation Place. The History channel has a show they do on prisons - and when they did Devil's Island, they gave a good description of Observation Place -
In Observation Place, the hapless student must remain silent, on their knees, face to the wall, hands behind their back, for up to twelve hours a day, for days at a time. Some of the 'schools' make them lay on their stomachs - Sometimes they did this at Dundee as well; but a forced body position and silence are always a part of it. My son spent three days in O. P for trading his medicine for candy.

On this occasion, when I asked - "what is O. P?" as I hadn't prior to this, ever herd of it; All I was told was, it was a place where the students had to remain quite and think about their non working choices. Maybe so. But there was an awful lot left unsaid. I didn't have a clue, until reading a description of O.P. in a New Orleans news paper article.

Its my understanding, some students spend the majority of their time in O. P., as they have a harder time conforming to the strict regimented demands of the program.

Another misleading was how restraint is used in the program. I was told restraint was sometimes used. This wasn't alarming, as I could easily imagine there where occasions when restraint would be needed, for the safety of the students. I was told it happens but was a rare occurrence, and as this made sense, I didn't question it.

What I have learned since my son has been transferred out of WWASP, is that restraint is very common and brutal. Its a common consequence to many minor infractions.

Lower level students are restrained for talking, as they are not allowed to talk - something else that was never disclosed to me upfront. Students are restrained for looking out of windows or smiling when they shouldn't be.

The restraint is painful. It isn't the sort of restraint that is to prevent ones harming themselves or others - but intended to hurt. My son told me, the students where told, the staff could break one bone with no reprisals, as all the parents had signed documents to that effect. I never signed anything giving my permission to break my son's bones.

He also told me it is a common thing for students to be beat up. He said it happened every day. At Dundee, he said it was the Jamaicans, who are transplants from WWASPs' Tranquillity Bay, that tended to beat up on the kids, and where so quick to restrain the students for minor things.

One last issue for my family is a matter of Faith. I had been assured that even though the WWASP/TeenHelp programs are Mormon owned and operated, no one particular Faith was encouraged or taught. However, it seems they do in fact consider the students a captive mission field. My son has told me, he was glad I sent him books to read, as oftentimes, if a student lacked a book of their own, they where handed a book of Mormon and made to read it.
On another occasion, he was invited to a Bible study, where instead of the Holy Bible, they passed out the book of Mormon. Many of the students are Mormon, and other families have no strong feeling about this issue; but for us, it's a real serious problem. I was upset about this.

All these things are why I think this program needs to be shut down.

There are good people at Dundee. I have been grateful for the kindness of my son's family Rep, as well as another young Costa Rican, who allowed my son to visit his home and travel to with him to meet me in Miami. There are good people, who deserve much heartfelt gratitude; But they have a despicable employer, In my opinion.

God's Peace,

Karen J Burnett

PS
For those who are confident my son has manipulated me with a pack of lies - I'd like to point out, I had transferred him out of there, and it was months later, before I learned most of the things I've related. The point being - he had no motive to lie. Neither do I.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2003, 01:04:00 PM »
Quote
Posted by Karen Burnett on Tuesday, 6 May 2003, at 10:41 p.m. (eastern time){/QUOTE]

Did anybody notice the date and time that this was posted?  I did.  It was after Karen got to know Sue.  Hmm...Karens story seems to have hit the net quite some time after her son was pulled from Dundee.  Karen's story seems to have been molded and unfolded after becoming aquainted with Sue.


Karen, can you provide evidence that you were speaking out against Dundee back when your son was pulled?  Or has your outcry only began to surface, like say since after October of 2002?
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Offline Carey

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« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2003, 01:06:00 PM »
Sorry that was mine.  Anyway, Karen can you answer  the question and back it up with proof?

By the way, I do know you posted this same story on Sue's site back in Jan of 2003.  I want to see where you were talking out against Dundee from before October of 2002.  You know, before you came to have heard about Dundee in the news.  Back when you would have formed your opinion or would have come to some sort of proof on your own, that Dundee was not a good place.  Or, has your discovery of the truth come after that fact.

What I am trying to figure out is, did you pull Nathan because you knew something was wrong there at Dundee or did you pull Nathan for other reasons only to learn it was a good thing that you had?

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-27 10:27 ]
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Offline Carey

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« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2003, 01:36:00 PM »
Quote
I was told a student with a profile and history like my son's could expect to graduate within 6 months.


Karen, didn't you have to sign a one year contract?  If so, how would you figure that your son would be allowed to graduate in 6 months?  The contract that my ex had to sign was for a year.  He had to promise to pay the program at the very least, that length of time.  It did not mention in the contract that if they graduated in less time, that he would be released from his payment thereof.  To me, that is the program saying they will be there at least a year.
:question:

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-27 10:46 ]
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Offline anon

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« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2003, 02:05:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 14:25 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2003, 02:36:00 PM »
Karen, I followed the link you provided and read your statement.  Very disturbing to learn about your concerns as to whether these programs are an appropriate placement for children suffering from a serious personality disorder.  It's too bad you were booted off the parents support board for expressing your opinion.  Sometimes I get the impression from reading posts on Lon's board that there is an underground network of parents who are successfully pitching non-WWASPS programs ... to their own financial gain. Am I wrong?  

http://strugglingteens.com/news/lettert ... karen.html
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