new JRC Article

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Pile of Dead Kids]

I don't know, Joel. What alternative could we possibly have to shocking kids for some psycho's fetish? I mean, Massachusetts kids (but not kids from anywhere else in the country, where this is fucking illegal) with mental problems really have nowhere else to go, right? I mean if we sent the autistics to the kind of homes autistics go everywhere ELSE in the US, you know, the ones without all the shocking, what good would THAT do? And of course we can't send the juvenile felons to, well, prison, because obviously life is a bad 80's movie where they can expect every prison trope in existence to apply. So we better just let the torture continue, because we really can't do anything else with them.

[Dr Fucktard]

I don't know, Joel. What alternative could we possibly have to shocking kids for some psycho's fetish? I mean, Massachusetts kids (but not kids from anywhere else in the country, where this is fucking illegal) with mental problems really have nowhere else to go, right? I mean if we sent the autistics to the kind of homes autistics go everywhere ELSE in the US, you know, the ones without all the shocking, what good would THAT do? And of course we can't send the juvenile felons to, well, prison, because obviously life is a bad 80's movie where they can expect every prison trope in existence to apply. So we better just let the torture continue, because we really can't do anything else with them.

At LAST... someone on this forum who understands REALITY!!!  :tup:

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Pile of Dead Kids]

I would also explore keeping JRC open while banning shock therapy

That's like castrating a violent rapist and letting him go- sure, you've taken away his primary weapon, but he's still fucking dangerous.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Inculcated]

@Joel's questions re: alternatives. Well there are a lot of purported treatments available out there that claim to cure, alleviate or manage this that or the other. More than most, Autism spectrum has a variety of such claims associated with it ranging from Auditory Training and dietary restrictions to Craniosacral Therapy or Judge Rotenberg Center issued Graduated Electronic Decelerators.
It seems as if most methods available for Autism include some caveats and uncertainty ( Even ones that don’t involve outfitting the recipient with an apparatus by which they’ll receive repeated painful electroshocks) A couple of these are as follows:
Higashi (Daily Life Therapy)
TEACCH Lovaas Method (Behavior modification program)
Doman/ Delacato Method

@Who and his belief that JRC’s applications shock treatment is analogous to chemo for kids
Treatments that can be described as effective or cruel aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when the harm is being inflicted to alter behavior. JRC uses a treatment of delivering painful shocks to students that leave burns. When considering the physical and emotional harm caused by a treatment, that it has an effect on limiting self injury becomes moot imo.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Inculcated]

As mentioned, I found a lot of uncertainties when looking for an answer to your question. I imagine you’d do well as anyone by info seeking the question you’ve posed. Will you get back to us if you find some specifics?

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Craniosacral Therapy - Unmitigated quackery.

Higashi (Daily Life Therapy) - Well-meaning, but not likely to accomplish much.

TEACCH - The only sane one in the bunch. Works with special-ed, on known foundations of autistic brain dysfunctions, with IEPs and the educational system. Has no relation to:

The Lovaas Method (Behavior modification program) - Founded on industrial-strength vicious, evil shit. Holy crap, I remember this shock-floor from that one Stephen King movie with the cat!

Doman/ Delacato Method - Oh hey, a word, a word, it's been used around here before, what's that word.. Oh yeah! Infantilism!

[Inculcated]

K’ care to continue the research and review?

Oh um, back to the OT point

...From the JRC website:
If positive and educational procedures alone are not effective, then after trying them for an average of 11 months, we approach the parents to suggest supplementing the rewards with a corrective (aversive) consequence for the problem behavior.

The JRC website describes these practices as “intensive treatment procedures” but almost every national disability organization agrees that the use of painful procedures to change a person’s behavior is unnecessary, inhumane, and should be banned.

[Whooter]

@Who and his belief that JRC’s applications shock treatment is analogous to chemo for kids
Treatments that can be described as effective or cruel aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when the harm is being inflicted to alter behavior. JRC uses a treatment of delivering painful shocks to students that leave burns. When considering the physical and emotional harm caused by a treatment, that it has an effect on limiting self injury becomes moot imo.

If a little girl had cancer in her arm she could receive chemo/Radiation therapy, her arm could be amputated or they could do nothing.  If they amputated her arm they could spare her the pain and suffering of Chemo/radiation (which can burn the skin also).

If a child had a behavior problem which caused her to self inflict pain on herself to the point she would bang her head so hard that she severed the retina from her left eye would it be justified to restrain this child 24/7 and drug her to the point that she sits and drools all day?  Or give her a chance at a higher quality of life and try shock treatment?

Which path is inhumane?  If it were your child which would you choose?

If you amputated the girls arm there would be a high probability that the girl would live a long life (but without an arm).  If you tried Chemo/Radiation you may be able to save the arm but the child would lose her hair and be sick for weeks and you risk having the cancer return or spread to other parts of the body causing an early death.  If you did nothing you could spare your child pain in the short term but possibly early death.

If you sedated the child with the behavior problems and restrained her she would probably live a long life but her quality of life would be near zero.  If you did nothing the child would probably injure herself severely.  If you tried shock treatment the child may respond and be able to live a long a happier life.

I think it is a good parallel and doesn’t make it easy to conclude that shock treatment is inhumane considering the alternative paths.



...

[Anne Bonney]

@Who and his belief that JRC’s applications shock treatment is analogous to chemo for kids
Treatments that can be described as effective or cruel aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when the harm is being inflicted to alter behavior. JRC uses a treatment of delivering painful shocks to students that leave burns. When considering the physical and emotional harm caused by a treatment, that it has an effect on limiting self injury becomes moot imo.

 :notworthy:  :notworthy:

[DannyB II]

@Joel's questions re: alternatives. Well there are a lot of purported treatments available out there that claim to cure, alleviate or manage this that or the other. More than most, Autism spectrum has a variety of such claims associated with it ranging from Auditory Training and dietary restrictions to Craniosacral Therapy or Judge Rotenberg Center issued Graduated Electronic Decelerators.
It seems as if most methods available for Autism include some caveats and uncertainty ( Even ones that don’t involve outfitting the recipient with an apparatus by which they’ll receive repeated painful electroshocks) A couple of these are as follows:
Higashi (Daily Life Therapy)
TEACCH Lovaas Method (Behavior modification program)
Doman/ Delacato Method

@Who and his belief that JRC’s applications shock treatment is analogous to chemo for kids
Treatments that can be described as effective or cruel aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when the harm is being inflicted to alter behavior. JRC uses a treatment of delivering painful shocks to students that leave burns. When considering the physical and emotional harm caused by a treatment, that it has an effect on limiting self injury becomes moot imo.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Inculcate spoke:
@Who and his belief that JRC’s applications shock treatment is analogous to chemo for kids
Treatments that can be described as effective or cruel aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when the harm is being inflicted to alter behavior. JRC uses a treatment of delivering painful shocks to students that leave burns. When considering the physical and emotional harm caused by a treatment, that it has an effect on limiting self injury becomes moot imo.


 
Inculcate,
I get where you are going with this Inculcate but what I am not hearing from folks is alternatives (not to the abuse) for the severe disabilities these children have, as Joel was saying. I can relate to being out of control and no other facility wanting you but a place like JRC, I have had this experience.
If this is within your field of expertise please do share I would like to read it or if anyone else has info, share.
I know how folks feel about Whooter but so far outside of Joel, he is the only person willing to share anything worth reading concerning remedies for these kids. I understand shock treatments are cruel, I just would like to read more about them.

Danny

[Anne Bonney]

Inculcate,
I get where you are going with this Inculcate but what I am not hearing from folks is alternatives (not to the abuse) for the severe disabilities these children have, as Joel was saying. I can relate to being out of control and no other facility wanting you but a place like JRC, I have had this experience.
If this is within your field of expertise please do share I would like to read it or if anyone else has info, share.
I know how folks feel about Whooter but so far outside of Joel, he is the only person willing to share anything worth reading concerning remedies for these kids. I understand shock treatments are cruel, I just would like to read more about them.

Danny

So, criticism isn't valid unless accompanied by a solution?  Really?  I have no clue how to handle the situation, but I know how NOT to. Primum non nocere.