Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?

[Whooter]

A couple of paragraphs that jump out at me from the above post:

The industry tends to attract affluent parents simply because of the staggering cost. A month of treatment can cost up to twenty thousand dollars. And there are plenty of parents who will say it's worth every penny. "A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.

A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.

That works out to 72% of the kids are still heading down a healthy path after a year.  Thats not too bad.



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[Anne Bonney]

A couple of paragraphs that jump out at me from the above post:

The industry tends to attract affluent parents simply because of the staggering cost. A month of treatment can cost up to twenty thousand dollars. And there are plenty of parents who will say it's worth every penny. "A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.

A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.

That works out to 72% of the kids are still heading down a healthy path after a year.  Thats not too bad.

Stop spamming dickhead.  You've posted those a couple of times now in a failed attempt to distract from the FACT that this guy makes his living off of these places.  Of COURSE he's gonna rave about them.  He's an Ed Con (emphasis on the word Con), he's hawking a book and he thinks he can dx kids from an internet survey filled out by their parents.

Let's look at some of the programs he's worked at, shall we?

Sagewalk - killed a kid http://cafety.org/privately-funded-prog ... r-sagewalk

A Portland mother is talking about the death of her teenage son at a Redmond-based wilderness school. But it's not the first time this has happened at camps here.

http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=11355998

New to the program he was given plenty of water, but his diet was restricted. For breakfast, he was given just two cups of granola or oatmeal. An hour into the hike other's noticed Sergey walking awkwardly, a sign of heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

Video of grieving mom
http://www.kptv.com/video/20685256/


Obsidian - killed a kid http://www.nospank.net/n-g81.htm

William H. Edward Lee died Monday night at a Bend hospital after instructors of the Obsidian Trails wilderness camp held him down in a remote patch of the south Central Oregon desert. An autopsy was performed Wednesday, but the results had not reached the office of Lake County District Attorney David A. Schutt on Thursday night.

http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Edward%20Lee2.htm
A 15-year-old Scappoose boy died while being "restrained" at a wilderness school in the Oregon high desert on Monday night after he exhibited "defiant behavior."


Sure....I'd trust this guy with my kids.....suuuuuure

[AuntieEm2]

Quick point of correction/clarification on H.R. 911, the "Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2009." The legislation passed the House of Representatives with broad bipartisan support last year, and a sponsor is needed in the Senate for it to proceed to a vote there.

More info here: http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/02/t ... side.shtml

Auntie Em

[Anne Bonney]

Sagewalk - killed a kid http://cafety.org/privately-funded-prog ... r-sagewalk

A Portland mother is talking about the death of her teenage son at a Redmond-based wilderness school. But it's not the first time this has happened at camps here.

http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=11355998

New to the program he was given plenty of water, but his diet was restricted. For breakfast, he was given just two cups of granola or oatmeal. An hour into the hike other's noticed Sergey walking awkwardly, a sign of heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

Video of grieving mom
http://www.kptv.com/video/20685256/


Obsidian - killed a kid http://www.nospank.net/n-g81.htm

William H. Edward Lee died Monday night at a Bend hospital after instructors of the Obsidian Trails wilderness camp held him down in a remote patch of the south Central Oregon desert. An autopsy was performed Wednesday, but the results had not reached the office of Lake County District Attorney David A. Schutt on Thursday night.

http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Edward%20Lee2.htm
A 15-year-old Scappoose boy died while being "restrained" at a wilderness school in the Oregon high desert on Monday night after he exhibited "defiant behavior."


Sure....I'd trust this guy with my kids.....suuuuuure

The C & I show that I posted about yesterday featured the William Lee story and it was horrible.  Same shit, different day.  Restraints.  The 911 call from the staff said exactly what happened...she said they "sat on him for 15 minutes".  Face down.  In the dirt.  Then he "stopped struggling".  Yeah...he was fucking DEAD you piece of shit!!

[Whooter]

A couple of paragraphs that jump out at me from the above post:

The industry tends to attract affluent parents simply because of the staggering cost. A month of treatment can cost up to twenty thousand dollars. And there are plenty of parents who will say it's worth every penny. "A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.

A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.

That works out to 72% of the kids are still heading down a healthy path after a year.  Thats not too bad.



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No one is spamming.  These were taken directly from the original post.  Professionals write books all the time about the industry they are involved in and recommend the programs that they deal with.  I think if they didnt it would raise an eyebrow or two.  Imagine a heart surgeon saying saying "whoa! stay away from heart procedures or you could die on the table" lol.
 

Its interesting reading your reaction.  I posted a study awhile back which showed the effectiveness of programs and everyone here was up in arms because one of the researchers had a background in the industry.  Most people outside of fornits would be up in arms if there wasnt anyone with a working knowledge in programs. lol  Imagine a heart study which didnt have any doctors with a background in medicine?  

So  it depends on your individual perspective.  The studies shouldnt be a threat to anyone here.  



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[Anne Bonney]

No one is spamming.  These were taken directly from the original post.  Professionals write books all the time about the industry they are involved in and recommend the programs that they deal with.  I think if they didnt it would raise an eyebrow or two.  Imagine a heart surgeon saying saying "whoa! stay away from heart procedures or you could die on the table" lol.
 

Its interesting reading your reaction.  I posted a study awhile back which showed the effectiveness of programs and everyone here was up in arms because one of the researchers had a background in the industry.  Most people outside of fornits would be up in arms if there wasnt anyone with a working knowledge in programs. lol  Imagine a heart study which didnt have any doctors with a background in medicine?  

So  it depends on your individual perspective.  The studies shouldnt be a threat to anyone here.  
[/quote]

They're not a threat.  They're a joke.  As are you.  They guy has worked at programs that have killed kids.

Just stop.  Seriously.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

[Whooter]

No one is spamming.  These were taken directly from the original post.  Professionals write books all the time about the industry they are involved in and recommend the programs that they deal with.  I think if they didnt it would raise an eyebrow or two.  Imagine a heart surgeon saying saying "whoa! stay away from heart procedures or you could die on the table" lol.
 

Its interesting reading your reaction.  I posted a study awhile back which showed the effectiveness of programs and everyone here was up in arms because one of the researchers had a background in the industry.  Most people outside of fornits would be up in arms if there wasnt anyone with a working knowledge in programs. lol  Imagine a heart study which didnt have any doctors with a background in medicine?  

So  it depends on your individual perspective.  The studies shouldnt be a threat to anyone here.  

They're not a threat.  They're a joke.  As are you.  They guy has worked at programs that have killed kids.

Just stop.  Seriously.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

Why does it matter that he works at a program where kids have died?  What does that mean?  That he kills kids?  Your logic is totally off, Anne.  Horst Köhler is  presently president of a country that killed millions upon millions of people.  But that doesnt mean that he is going to start killing people too!  lol
What is wrong with you?  You dont even take the time to understand what someone stands for before you start to fault them.



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[Anne Bonney]

Why does it matter that he works at a program where kids have died?  What does that mean?  That he kills kids?  Your logic is totally off, Anne.  Horst Köhler is  presently president of a country that killed millions upon millions of people.  But that doesnt mean that he is going to start killing people too!  lol
What is wrong with you?  You dont even take the time to understand what someone stands for before you start to fault them.

Whatever helps ya sleep at night dude.  Wow...the guilt you feel must truly be overwhelming at times for you to go to the lengths you do to defend even the indefensible.

[Whooter]

Why does it matter that he works at a program where kids have died?  What does that mean?  That he kills kids?  Your logic is totally off, Anne.  Horst Köhler is  presently president of a country that killed millions upon millions of people.  But that doesnt mean that he is going to start killing people too!  lol
What is wrong with you?  You dont even take the time to understand what someone stands for before you start to fault them.

Whatever helps ya sleep at night dude.  Wow...the guilt you feel must truly be overwhelming at times for you to go to the lengths you do to defend even the indefensible.

Well its worth it to help people see the point they are missing.  Some people just judge others very harshly without ever meeting them (or getting to know what they stand for) and its due to ignorance or maybe it is an attempt to deceive others, I dont know.  But to disregard a persons opinion or lifes work because they are running an organization which had problems in its past is just wrong.  How can we fault Horst Köhler for all the jews who were killed? Should we disregard what he says because he is part of Germany's ruling party?

All I am saying is slow down and look at who you are criticizing and for what reason are you closing your eyes and ears.  You can still disagree with what a person says and the studies that are quoted but we dont know if this person is bad or not.  We shouldnt assume.



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[Anne Bonney]

buncha bullshit Whooter wrote about what he thinks I need to so

Fuck off prick

[Whooter]

I just hate spending my time reading up on the facts.  I just feel that anyone who works for a program must be evil and wants to hurt kids.  If this makes me evil and ignorant so be it, but my brain will never process any new information as long as I live.  All programs suck and kill people!!!!  That’s where I am stuck and will stay.

Cool, Anne, hope this works out for you but  there are other readers who do continue to watch the industry change and grow, are open minded, and have reformed their opinion and this is why I continue to post here.



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[Pile of Dead Kids]

Oh wow, he's hurting bad. Looks like that list of lawyers really cheesed him off.

[maruska]

Whooter, you are a strange guy:))

I mean...it is so easy to recognize what your agenda is...yet you sit here day by day and post and post and post...what a sad life you must have...

Why do you do it?

[wdtony]

Quick point of correction/clarification on H.R. 911, the "Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2009." The legislation passed the House of Representatives with broad bipartisan support last year, and a sponsor is needed in the Senate for it to proceed to a vote there.

More info here: http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/02/t ... side.shtml

Auntie Em

Thank you for posting this, I don't usually have enough time to keep an eye on everything I need to and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Anne Bonney]

I just hate spending my time reading up on the facts.  I just feel that anyone who works for a program must be evil and wants to hurt kids.  If this makes me evil and ignorant so be it, but my brain will never process any new information as long as I live.  All programs suck and kill people!!!!  That’s where I am stuck and will stay.

Cool, Anne, hope this works out for you but  there are other readers who do continue to watch the industry change and grow, are open minded, and have reformed their opinion and this is why I continue to post here.

Again...when I change the words I'm quoting, I make it very obvious that I'm doing so as not to confuse the reader.  You don't because your intention IS to confuse, obfuscate and deflect.  You're here doing damage control because we're getting the truth out about these abusive hellholes.

Whatever helps ya sleep at night dude.