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Offline Anne Bonney

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Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« on: March 17, 2010, 09:59:37 AM »
Found this while looking for the 'Uncovered' link.  

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/can_wil ... l_your.php

Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
Monday, June 22, 2009
filed under: family

It's an industry that preys on desperation.
matthew meyer was killed at camp

Gina Kaysen Fernandes: If your teenager has emotional issues, abuses drugs, or is promiscuous, help is just a phone call away. Wilderness intervention programs promise to "fix" bad behavior by teaching your child life skills and building self-esteem. These facilities offer a beacon of hope for parents like Crystal Manganaro, who sent her son, Matthew, to a wilderness camp outside of Houston. But what Crystal didn't realize was that the camp she entrusted with her son's life would so carelessly take it away.

Troubled Teen

At the age of 14, Matthew Meyer was flunking out of school and became a social outcast. "We argued about everything," says Crystal. Doctors diagnosed him with a bipolar disorder, but medication and weekly counseling didn't work. His mother had reached the breaking point. Her only son's belligerent behavior was uncontrollable. "I felt like he'd be isolated from the rest of the world socially and would end up living with me for the rest of his life." Crystal believed she had no choice but to seek professional help. She, along with thousands of parents in similar situations, turned to a wilderness intervention program because "I thought that was the answer."

In September 2004, Matthew's parents drove him hours away to a facility known as Lone Star Expeditions, located in the Davey Crockett National Forest in Texas. Stranded in an unfamiliar environment, Matthew was subjected to forced hikes while carrying a heavy backpack in hot weather. Communication with family was limited to several e-mails. "You have no way of knowing how it's going," said Crystal, who had no idea about her son's torturous treatment until it was too late.

Tragic Death


Just eight days into the program, Matthew and his group hiked several miles in 90-degree weather. A combination of excessive heat, a constrictive uniform, and Matthew's obesity caused him to overheat. He suffered a condition called hyperthermia, the worst form of heatstroke. "His body was literally burning up from the inside," says Crystal.

But instead of taking the boy's situation seriously, inexperienced and indifferent staffers thought Matthew was joking. They ignored his complaints of numbness in his legs. They told him he was having an anxiety attack when he suffered shortness of breath. Then they dumped water on him after he vomited and collapsed on the ground. Matthew Meyer died an hour later at the hospital. He was 14 years old.

Camp administrators refused to tell Crystal what happened to her son. It took three and a half years of investigation and litigation to reveal the truth. Aspen Education Group, the owners of Lone Star Expeditions, settled the case out of court.

The California-based company provided a written response to momlogic: "Safety is paramount within each of our outdoor programs, therefore each group is supported by a professionally trained wilderness first responder. In addition, all direct care staff are First Aid and CPR certified," wrote Kristen Hayes, Communications Director, adding, "Outdoor behavior health programs provide struggling young people with a wilderness-based experience, far removed from their current temptations, distractions and negative influences. Therapists, counselors and nature enable each student to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth."

An Industry that Operates Under the Radar


Nationwide, there are hundreds of wilderness programs, boot camps, and residential treatment facilities that practice a "tough love" approach to modifying children's behavior. This billion-dollar industry operates under the radar, without government oversight or intervention. "There are a number of gaps in federal and state oversight," said Kay Brown, director of the Government Accountability Office's Education, Workforce, and Income Securities Team, the federal agency that investigated Matthew Meyer's death.

The GAO recently released a series of scathing reports detailing its concerns regarding abuse and death in certain programs for troubled teens. The agency found thousands of allegations of abuse and, in some cases, death in American-owned and American-operated facilities at home and abroad between 1990 and 2007. Investigators believe the data under-reports the scope of the problem because the data doesn't catch incidents at private facilities. Brown explains, "Owners and operators can self-declare what kind of facility they're running and can bypass state requirements by categorizing themselves as a program that's not subject to licensing."

Some of the biggest red flags investigators uncovered were evidence of ineffective management, untrained staff, and reckless or negligent operating practices. "The so-called counselors who were responsible for monitoring the kids were basically high school babysitters," says Crystal. "The staff is trained to believe the kids are faking it to get out of the elements." There's also no way to track the number of abuse cases at any of these facilities because, according to the GAO, there's not a single website, federal agency, or other entity that collects comprehensive nationwide data.

The industry tends to attract affluent parents simply because of the staggering cost. A month of treatment can cost up to twenty thousand dollars. And there are plenty of parents who will say it's worth every penny. "A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy. Doctor Conner believes parents need to do their homework before sending their kids to one of these programs. "Don't trust what you see online," said Conner. "Don't trust parent testimonials. Trust professionals who have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. "

Doctor Conner thinks parents need to take more responsibility before committing their kids. "Licensed mental health professionals who are familiar with a program should be making referrals for severely disturbed kids, not the parents," said Conner. "All programs will tell you they can help your child. But they won't tell you which is the best program for your child." He disputes claims that the staff at wilderness camps may be unqualified. "The wilderness programs I've worked with have better trained staff than you'd find in a residential treatment program," he said.

"Programs Do Make Mistakes"

A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.

Crystal Manganaro is paying dearly for one camp's mistakes. "Ever since Matthew died, I'm not the same person. I'm not a fun-loving person anymore. I'm not the same and never will be," said Crystal. She's now focused on advocacy work that involves changing the laws regulating wilderness intervention programs. Crystal, along with many other parents and teens who have had harmful experiences at these programs, is urging lawmakers to sign onto a bill called "Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2009." The main focus of the legislation is setting up an ongoing review process for investigating and monitoring reported cases of abuse and neglect. The bill, H.R. 911, is still waiting for a sponsor.

Crystal is determined to prevent other parents from suffering what she has endured. "I feel like I have a mission now. Matthew didn't die in vain. He will still teach this world something."



One of the comments at the bottom of the page......

I have been sent to 2 wilderness rehabilitation programs in my life. any parent even considering sending their kids, needs to log off the computer and take a hard look at their life and parenting up till this point. There have been over 40 reported deaths, and countless reports of abuse. Iv’e witnessed first hand exactly what goes on. I’ve done the forced hikes, watched as kids collapsed due to hypothermia, witnessed physical and mental abuse. I could’nt even send a letter. my face was literally torn to shreds from sun burn, I still have scars. I had 2 pairs of clothes so i changed close once a week. That’s all you got. I was there for over 2 months and had a total of 4 showers. I had lost all feeling in my toes from the onset of frost bite. Worse however is the mental torture which i cannot even describe except to say that i don’t think i will ever be the same. This poor kid Mathew obviously wasn’t as lucky as me, may he rest in peace. To any parent considering this, PLEASE RECONSIDER. This is the time when your kids need you most. You really think haveing them hike until they collapse is going to change them into the child you wish they were. I lost the best years of my life because of these programs, and will never forgive my parents for what they have done.
- Bobby
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 11:37:03 AM »
That was sad.  I remember reading about Matthew.  Thanks for finding this article, Anne.  A few quotes from the article:


Quote
Doctor Conner thinks parents need to take more responsibility before committing their kids. "Licensed mental health professionals who are familiar with a program should be making referrals for severely disturbed kids, not the parents," said Conner. "All programs will tell you they can help your child. But they won't tell you which is the best program for your child." He disputes claims that the staff at wilderness camps may be unqualified. "The wilderness programs I've worked with have better trained staff than you'd find in a residential treatment program," he said.

This is where I think a third party sign-off would benefit.  Most professionals agree that wilderness is highly effective but the parents are not trained to know which program would be the best choice for them.

Quote
"A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.



Quote
A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.

So if I did the numbers right ….out of 100 kids 72 will be functioning well and still heading down a healthy path after 1 year.




...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 11:42:21 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
That was sad.  I remember reading about Matthew.  Thanks for finding this article, Anne.


Fuck you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 11:50:32 AM »
A few quotes and excerpts from the article.



She, along with thousands of parents in similar situations, turned to a wilderness intervention program because "I thought that was the answer."


Just eight days into the program, Matthew and his group hiked several miles in 90-degree weather. A combination of excessive heat, a constrictive uniform, and Matthew's obesity caused him to overheat. He suffered a condition called hyperthermia, the worst form of heatstroke. "His body was literally burning up from the inside," says Crystal.

But instead of taking the boy's situation seriously, inexperienced and indifferent staffers thought Matthew was joking. They ignored his complaints of numbness in his legs. They told him he was having an anxiety attack when he suffered shortness of breath. Then they dumped water on him after he vomited and collapsed on the ground. Matthew Meyer died an hour later at the hospital. He was 14 years old.

Camp administrators refused to tell Crystal what happened to her son
. It took three and a half years of investigation and litigation to reveal the truth. Aspen Education Group, the owners of Lone Star Expeditions, settled the case out of court.




The GAO recently released a series of scathing reports detailing its concerns regarding abuse and death in certain programs for troubled teens. The agency found thousands of allegations of abuse and, in some cases, death in American-owned and American-operated facilities at home and abroad between 1990 and 2007. Investigators believe the data under-reports the scope of the problem because the data doesn't catch incidents at private facilities. Brown explains, "Owners and operators can self-declare what kind of facility they're running and can bypass state requirements by categorizing themselves as a program that's not subject to licensing."

Some of the biggest red flags investigators uncovered were evidence of ineffective management, untrained staff, and reckless or negligent operating practices. "The so-called counselors who were responsible for monitoring the kids were basically high school babysitters," says Crystal. "The staff is trained to believe the kids are faking it to get out of the elements." There's also no way to track the number of abuse cases at any of these facilities because, according to the GAO, there's not a single website, federal agency, or other entity that collects comprehensive nationwide data.




One of the comments at the bottom of the page......

I have been sent to 2 wilderness rehabilitation programs in my life. any parent even considering sending their kids, needs to log off the computer and take a hard look at their life and parenting up till this point. There have been over 40 reported deaths, and countless reports of abuse. Iv’e witnessed first hand exactly what goes on. I’ve done the forced hikes, watched as kids collapsed due to hypothermia, witnessed physical and mental abuse. I could’nt even send a letter. my face was literally torn to shreds from sun burn, I still have scars. I had 2 pairs of clothes so i changed close once a week. That’s all you got. I was there for over 2 months and had a total of 4 showers. I had lost all feeling in my toes from the onset of frost bite. Worse however is the mental torture which i cannot even describe except to say that i don’t think i will ever be the same. This poor kid Mathew obviously wasn’t as lucky as me, may he rest in peace. To any parent considering this, PLEASE RECONSIDER. This is the time when your kids need you most. You really think haveing them hike until they collapse is going to change them into the child you wish they were. I lost the best years of my life because of these programs, and will never forgive my parents for what they have done.
- Bobby
[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 12:01:44 PM »
Dueling quotes!!  LOL


Quote
Doctor Conner thinks parents need to take more responsibility before committing their kids. "Licensed mental health professionals who are familiar with a program should be making referrals for severely disturbed kids, not the parents," said Conner. "All programs will tell you they can help your child. But they won't tell you which is the best program for your child." He disputes claims that the staff at wilderness camps may be unqualified. "The wilderness programs I've worked with have better trained staff than you'd find in a residential treatment program," he said.

This is where I think a third party sign-off would benefit.  Most professionals agree that wilderness is highly effective but the parents are not trained to know which program would be the best choice for them.

Quote
"A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.



Quote
A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.
[/color][/size]

So if I did the numbers right ….out of 100 kids 72 will be functioning well and still heading down a healthy path after 1 year.




...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 12:11:30 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
a bunch of quotes Whooter picked out of the article without mentioning that the guy he was quoting makes his living off of wilderness therapy


Yes, surprise surprise.  A guy that works for wilderness therapy recommends wilderness therapy.  Brilliant!


http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Vita.htm

2003 to Current - Program Director and Instructor for with Outdoor Therapy Institute (OTI).

Develop program curriculum and course materials for continuing education training for mental health professional interested in developing and expanding their practice in adventure, wilderness and outdoor therapy interventions. OTI is a program sponsored by Mentor Research Institute (MRI).


1999 to 2000 - Clinical Director and Therapist,  Obsidian Trails. Bend ,OR.

    Outdoor and indoor residential intervention program. Provide therapy and counseling to students and families. Supervised and approved admissions. Consultation, supervision, clinical training and debriefing to line and administrative staff.

1998 to 1999 - Clinical Director and Therapist,  SageWalk the Outdoor School. Bend ,OR.

    Outdoor residential intervention program. Provide therapy and counseling to students and families. Supervised and approved admissions. Consultation, supervision, clinical training and debriefing to line and administrative staff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 12:20:50 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
I regret posting this article because it points out the benefits of sending a child to wilderness.  In the future I will read the articles before I post them.  Please disregard these quotes from the article:


Quote
Doctor Conner thinks parents need to take more responsibility before committing their kids. "Licensed mental health professionals who are familiar with a program should be making referrals for severely disturbed kids, not the parents," said Conner. "All programs will tell you they can help your child. But they won't tell you which is the best program for your child." He disputes claims that the staff at wilderness camps may be unqualified. "The wilderness programs I've worked with have better trained staff than you'd find in a residential treatment program," he said.

This is where I think a third party sign-off would benefit.  Most professionals agree that wilderness is highly effective but the parents are not trained to know which program would be the best choice for them.

Quote
"A 30-day wilderness intervention program is the most powerful intervention tool that exists to save children's lives," said Michael Conner, Psy.D., a licensed psychologist and leading expert in wilderness-based therapy.



Quote
A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.
[/color][/size]

So if I did the numbers right ….out of 100 kids 72 will be functioning well and still heading down a healthy path after 1 year.


Anne your idea of changing peoples quotes is very effective.  Does this work for you?



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 12:29:17 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Anne your idea of changing peoples quotes is very effective.  Does this work for you?


Unlike you, I make it very clear that I'm changing the words.  I'm not trying to confuse the reader.  You, apparently, are.


It doesn't change the fact that you like to quote from sources who are extremely biased.  In this case, he actually works in the industry.  Any logical thinker would consider that biased.



Edited to add...


And posts like yours above are exactly why people consider you a pompous and dishonest asshole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 12:36:04 PM »
I didn't even have to look to know, but just to prove my point, I checked to see if Michael Conner PsyD was affiliated with a program.

But of course he is affiliated with a program! The very program, Sagewalk, that has killed multiple students due to malfeasance, including Sergei B. who died in September of 2009. Sagewalk is owned by Aspen Education Group, which also owns Mount Bachelor Academy, the school ordered closed by the State of Oregon because it's "treatment practices" were found to meet the definition of child abuse under Oregon law. He also runs a referral service for sending kids to programs. And--oh, I love this--he has developed an online tool you can use to diagnose your child!!  You can even "measure the value of medications and therapy" online. (Talk about an online tool...)

His website promotes his books, public speaking, referral consultation services, online screening (click "purchase"!), and all the other ways this guy makes money off the desperation of parents and the misery of kids.

Credibility = FAIL

Auntie Em
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael G. Conner, PsyD
An active outdoorsman, Dr. Conner moved to Bend Oregon in 1999 becoming the clinical director for Sagewalk, an intervention program for youth. Opening a private practice in 2002, Dr. Conner now provides clinical counseling, therapy and diagnostic services to individual adults, couples, parents and adolescents.  developing a national reputation, his diagnostic and youth intervention practice draws parents of youth at-risk from throughout the United States. In 2003, Dr. Conner began research n ationally on youth at risk; creating new online behavioral screening and information gathering technologies.
Bio: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Michael ... iceBio.pdf
Referral service: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/consult/index.htm
Online Tool: http://www.steponeforparents.org/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Whooter

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 12:38:47 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

It doesn't change the fact that you like to quote from sources who are extremely biased.  In this case, he actually works in the industry.  Any logical thinker would consider that biased.

Ha,Ha,Ha  Anne... I quote from an article that you posted!!   Just a suggestion, next time dont post biased articles if it gives you heart burn.  Try to find articles which show a nice balance between pro and anti program.  lol



...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 12:46:32 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Ha,Ha,Ha  Anne... I quote from an article that you posted!!   Just a suggestion, next time dont post biased articles if it gives you heart burn.  Try to find articles which show a nice balance between pro and anti program.  lol


You're a mere annoyance to me anymore.  Something to simply put up with.  No heartburn so don't you fret.  

You selectively pulled those quotes without disclosing the source's history of working for wilderness therapy programs.  Spin it all you want, post all the 'hahahas' and lols and ...s you want, we all see you for what you are.  All this is is damage control.  Deflect, distort, derail, distract etc. etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 12:48:34 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
I didn't even have to look to know, but just to prove my point, I checked to see if Michael Conner PsyD was affiliated with a program.

But of course he is affiliated with a program! The very program, Sagewalk, that has killed multiple students due to malfeasance, including Sergei B. who died in September of 2009. Sagewalk is owned by Aspen Education Group, which also owns Mount Bachelor Academy, the school ordered closed by the State of Oregon because it's "treatment practices" were found to meet the definition of child abuse under Oregon law. He also runs a referral service for sending kids to programs. And--oh, I love this--he has developed an online tool you can use to diagnose your child!!  You can even "measure the value of medications and therapy" online. (Talk about an online tool...)

His website promotes his books, public speaking, referral consultation services, online screening (click "purchase"!), and all the other ways this guy makes money off the desperation of parents and the misery of kids.

Credibility = FAIL

Auntie Em
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael G. Conner, PsyD
An active outdoorsman, Dr. Conner moved to Bend Oregon in 1999 becoming the clinical director for Sagewalk, an intervention program for youth. Opening a private practice in 2002, Dr. Conner now provides clinical counseling, therapy and diagnostic services to individual adults, couples, parents and adolescents.  developing a national reputation, his diagnostic and youth intervention practice draws parents of youth at-risk from throughout the United States. In 2003, Dr. Conner began research n ationally on youth at risk; creating new online behavioral screening and information gathering technologies.
Bio: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Michael ... iceBio.pdf
Referral service: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/consult/index.htm
Online Tool: http://www.steponeforparents.org/


Yep.  I thought Sagewalk was one of the literally lethal programs.  Yeah, I'd trust that guy with my kids. ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2010, 01:12:36 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"

But of course he is affiliated with a program! The very program, Sagewalk, that has killed multiple students due to malfeasance, including Sergei B. who died in September of 2009. Sagewalk is owned by Aspen Education Group, which also owns Mount Bachelor Academy, the school ordered closed by the State of Oregon because it's "treatment practices" were found to meet the definition of child abuse under Oregon law. He also runs a referral service for sending kids to programs. And--oh, I love this--he has developed an online tool you can use to diagnose your child!!  You can even "measure the value of medications and therapy" online. (Talk about an online tool...)

His website promotes his books, public speaking, referral consultation services, online screening (click "purchase"!), and all the other ways this guy makes money off the desperation of parents and the misery of kids.

Credibility = FAIL

Auntie Em
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael G. Conner, PsyD
An active outdoorsman, Dr. Conner moved to Bend Oregon in 1999 becoming the clinical director for Sagewalk, an intervention program for youth. Opening a private practice in 2002, Dr. Conner now provides clinical counseling, therapy and diagnostic services to individual adults, couples, parents and adolescents.  developing a national reputation, his diagnostic and youth intervention practice draws parents of youth at-risk from throughout the United States. In 2003, Dr. Conner began research n ationally on youth at risk; creating new online behavioral screening and information gathering technologies.
Bio: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Michael ... iceBio.pdf
Referral service: http://www.crisiscounseling.com/consult/index.htm
Online Tool: http://www.steponeforparents.org/


Because it  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 02:16:40 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
You selectively pulled those quotes without disclosing the source's history of working for wilderness therapy programs. Spin it all you want, post all the 'hahahas' and lols and ...s you want, we all see you for what you are. All this is is damage control. Deflect, distort, derail, distract etc. etc.


Anne,  I was quoting from an article you posted.... Lol Its not up to us readers to locate and disclose the sources for you.

 I don’t think any of us are surprised that they interviewed someone with ties to the industry (most reporters would lose their job if they didnt).  If the article were about childs health I am sure they would seek out the opinion of someone who was tied to the industry of children’s health.  The readers wouldn’t want the opinion of someone outside the industry would they?  They would want a pediatrician.
If the article were about car maintenance the readers could be assured that they would interview someone with working knowledge of how to maintain a car etc.
So if Dr. Connor was not affiliated with the troubled teen industry I don’t think his opinions would hold much water.  But seeing that he does gives his words credibility.
With that said it does give us more study results:

Anne Bonneys article stated that:
Quote
A two-year study looked at 50 kids in three programs. After 30 days, 90% of the kids had improved to a functional level. After six months, 40% of those kids had relapsed, and after one year, half of those kids had recovered. "What these programs are doing is saving lives, but programs do make mistakes," said Conner.
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So if I did the numbers right ….out of 100 kids 72 will be functioning well and still heading down a healthy path after 1 year.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Can Wilderness Camps Kill Your Kid?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 02:26:01 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Anne,  I was quoting from an article you posted.... Lol Its not up to us readers to locate and disclose the sources for you.

Yes, you moronic piece of shit, I know.  You selectively took those quotes from the article and attributed them to the author of the article when they actually came from someone else.

Again...this is why you're dismissed as a lying shill and a complete asshole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa