Elan discussion from New Forum Policies

[DannyB II]

Though I am the first to acknowledge that psychological trauma incurred through program abuse (or any abuse, for that matter) seriously undermines one's ability to make healthy and constructive decisions, I also say that hell no, one can't blame everything on their program, whatever program it was.  Life is about choices, and taking responsibility for them.

True that player...

And I'm loving how some of the instigators of this shit are playing the victim. Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
 
:suicide:

Sharon can we stop, take a break, catch our breath and put off any more pleasantries for another time, what do you think.
Danny

There is no need for compromise here Danny, you just need to do this for your own good, and not worry or think about Sharon.

SEKTO
Most of this message you have posted here is from your disdain for the offender as "YOU SEE IT". Free speech is especially important in this circumstance, it allows the parties to express all of their emotions.
Danny

So free speech is what you've been calling this muddle? I call it actively aiding and abetting Elan in their sick work.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Well it sounded good when I wrote it, but now...LMAO... :beat:
Danny

[karen p]

:tup:

[Ursus]

When people pretty much completely stop posting because of the excess of trolling, what is effectively happening is that he (the troll) is moderating the ability of others to post. This is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

Free speech gives one the right to say whatever one wants; it does not give one the right to say anything one wants, wherever one wants to say it.

IMO it's about time that fornits was much better moderated.  There have got to be some kind of rules, standards.  

Without these, it's just one big trollfest and fornits turns into a farce.  Again, just my opinion.

I think you are taking that quote out of context. It came about when fornits was experiencing some pretty extraordinary trolling conditions which do not, imho, currently apply (at least as of yet).

At the time, it was well nigh impossible - for major portions of the day - to find a single solitary thread on the first page of the active topics thread which did not end with a most recent post containing the highly edifying content of the word "FUCK" repeated for several screenfuls. Or several hundred emoticons, complete with motion, which slowed the page loading for those with less than broadband conditions. Or repeated pics of Hitler and/or Mussolini, I think the specs were at least 1000px wide. Or seemingly endless program copypasta. Let us not forget the explicit depictions of fornication and various debasing poses of men, women, and assorted other mammals.

There was not exactly much content there, to put it mildly, that one could even respond to, discuss, or debate. And this had been going on for several months. It was a flood of trolling. Extraordinary measures were called for. Preferably for as little time as possible, imho.

This is not what we are dealing with now.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Ursus ,,,I'm not sure what you mean this is not what we are dealing with now .

I  am tired of having to explain or talk about the facts again. I choose to live my life after elan as an honest ,good , productive man of society. I don't blame elan or its henchmen for that or give elan or its henchmen credits for that . I choose to be that person because of me .

I could have believed what elan told me  (then)that I was a horrible person , liar. sick, instigator, manipulator , and that people did not like me, and ALL the nonsense  and out right lies that have  been slammed in my face in the past 3 weeks( by someone who did not know me then and has no clue as to who I am now),and if I had believed that (what elan told me ) then I would have been dead a long time ago.

I  choose life and I don't live in the past no matter how hard some one tries to take me there. Just not gonna happen, I love life and my world too much to even be thinking about buying that ticket. The world I know ,elan, I left many ,many years ago. When I step to the edge and I look down at that world that I know ,elan (by way of the memories that I carry in my mind ) yeah it moves me .

I learned long ago to put elan in its proper perspective  and no longer associate the intense emotionallity that I use to with those memories. that is not to say that the world that I know of elan doesn't make me sad it does. It just doesn't prevent me from talking about elan with the clarity and factuality , that an emotionally clouded mind wouldn't be able to do.

No I left elan a long time ago ,the memories of that world I know (elan) I will carry with me forever .

And yes I hold elan responsible for what happened in elan , If it had been a caring, had real psychiatrists and doctors trained in abused children's issues, non bazarre , not cruel ,not twisted , had a  compassionate  way of dealing with people, and allowed people to feel safe then , I would never have attempted suicide nor would I have felt the need to assault another resident. Damn right elan is resposible for what went on in that insane hellhole.

And if it had been that type of caring place elan would have never had to try to keep the truth about what was going on in there from the public eye, which it still tries to do today as evidenced by what has transpired over the past three weeks.

No elan wasn't  a safe  healthy enviorment for any human being . The world that I know as elan was a cruel , sick , twisted ,painful , and criminally insane practices went on in there in the guise of therapy. Yeah I have trust issues from elan ,thats my problem , I know where it came from but ,I can't blame elan for that , it is my problem .

I choose to deal with trust issues my way. If I let you in the world that I live in now which is full of love , and happiness and you prove to me that I can't trust you . well thats it , you aren't part of my world anymore.And as hard as you pound on my door to come back in again , it is simply not going to open again for you. You have proven to me that I can't trust you.

I have lots of people in my world that I know and trust .

If some one trust me, with something they can take it to the bank that I am with them and can be trusted by them. I expect the same from myself as I would of them.

Any way I seriously digress , Ursus  the past three weeks I have felt that if I posted anything contrary to someones belief (no matter how gentle I went about it) about elan ,AA my experiences in elan, any facts about  the program, and the fact that I survivied the program , that the program was going to do anything in its power  (personal attacks and threats)to try to attack my credibility, and survivourship (that I own) of that place. And I find that dispicable,and those are my feelings on the  matter.

I don't consider myself to be elan's cream of the crop...but I will work for beggars pay to learn a way to sink that ship of fools on a cruel sea. elan and its henchmen , in my opinion have aided and abetted elan in running a continueing criminal enterprise for over 36 years, they do  anything in their power to keep its horrible secrets from seeing the light of day, and to keep on keeping on.

Peace

Matt

[Inculcated]

When people pretty much completely stop posting because of the excess of trolling, what is effectively happening is that he (the troll) is moderating the ability of others to post. This is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

Free speech gives one the right to say whatever one wants; it does not give one the right to say anything one wants, wherever one wants to say it.

IMO it's about time that fornits was much better moderated.  There have got to be some kind of rules, standards.  

Without these, it's just one big trollfest and fornits turns into a farce.  Again, just my opinion.

I think you are taking that quote out of context. It came about when fornits was experiencing some pretty extraordinary trolling conditions which do not, imho, currently apply (at least as of yet).

At the time, it was well nigh impossible - for major portions of the day - to find a single solitary thread on the first page of the active topics thread which did not end with a most recent post containing the highly edifying content of the word "FUCK" repeated for several screenfuls. Or several hundred emoticons, complete with motion, which slowed the page loading for those with less than broadband conditions. Or repeated pics of Hitler and/or Mussolini, I think the specs were at least 1000px wide. Or seemingly endless program copypasta. Let us not forget the explicit depictions of fornication and various debasing poses of men, women, and assorted other mammals.

There was not exactly much content there, to put it mildly, that one could even respond to, discuss, or debate. And this had been going on for several months. It was a flood of trolling. Extraordinary measures were called for. Preferably for as little time as possible, imho.

This is not what we are dealing with now.

Ursus,
I disagree. The rules and policies (posted by Administrators) cover very six very specific points that cover more than simply flooding.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Some one please tell me what does IMHO mean ...I for the life of me can;t figure that out .

Thanks

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Che Gookin]

Inculated:

If we go that road we better ban Mark Babitz and Cleveland Steamer (plus his four other or so accounts) as well. Banning people isn't going to help anyone. We've tried it here before and it didn't do a lick of good.


And Matt, Anyone who considers themselves the cream of the crop of Elan ought to check themselves out in the mirror. That's like saying you are "King Shit on Turd Island".  You'll never see me lining up for that dubious honor.

[Ursus]

When people pretty much completely stop posting because of the excess of trolling, what is effectively happening is that he (the troll) is moderating the ability of others to post. This is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

Free speech gives one the right to say whatever one wants; it does not give one the right to say anything one wants, wherever one wants to say it.

IMO it's about time that fornits was much better moderated.  There have got to be some kind of rules, standards.  

Without these, it's just one big trollfest and fornits turns into a farce.  Again, just my opinion.

I think you are taking that quote out of context. It came about when fornits was experiencing some pretty extraordinary trolling conditions which do not, imho, currently apply (at least as of yet).

At the time, it was well nigh impossible - for major portions of the day - to find a single solitary thread on the first page of the active topics thread which did not end with a most recent post containing the highly edifying content of the word "FUCK" repeated for several screenfuls. Or several hundred emoticons, complete with motion, which slowed the page loading for those with less than broadband conditions. Or repeated pics of Hitler and/or Mussolini, I think the specs were at least 1000px wide. Or seemingly endless program copypasta. Let us not forget the explicit depictions of fornication and various debasing poses of men, women, and assorted other mammals.

There was not exactly much content there, to put it mildly, that one could even respond to, discuss, or debate. And this had been going on for several months. It was a flood of trolling. Extraordinary measures were called for. Preferably for as little time as possible, imho.

This is not what we are dealing with now.

Ursus,
I disagree. The rules and policies (posted by Administrators) cover very six very specific points that cover more than simply flooding.

The original context of the quote specifically addressed flooding, and flooding alone.

Moreover, I do think those "rules" are more or less unenforceable, for all practical purposes.

[SEKTO]

Moreover, I do think those "rules" are more or less unenforceable, for all practical purposes.

Why are the rules unenforceable?  

To me, it's very simple, very black and white: somebody reads the forum rules.  If a person can follow the rules, then they can participate.  If they cannot, then they get a few warnings, and if they STILL cannot follow the rules, then they get banned.  

We're trying to have an intelligent conversation about the TPI here, at least most of us are.  This is not the online equivalent of The Jerry Springer Show.

You might find the ongoing fracas really amusing, and maybe even entertaining, Ursus.  

But most of the rest of us find it really annoying, and at this point more and more participants (actual and potential) are choosing to "tune out."

Fornits loses a lot of people for the simple reason that it's so poorly monitored and moderated.  Rather than sit back and complain, I for one am trying to do something to change that.

I'd be willing to bet you that for every one new and legitimate poster who comes here looking for discussion, networking with other program survivors, and support (after all, that's why I started posting to fornits) there are ten who look at the melee and trolling and choose not to post at all.  And then the whole purpose of this place has been defeated.  

Let's change a couple of words in that original quote, and maybe then you'll see my point more clearly.

When people pretty much completely stop posting because of the excesses of a certain belligerent Irish bully, what is effectively happening is that he (the bully) is moderating the ability of others to post. This is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Hi Aaron ,

LOL ,the cream of the crop   LOL   was what a group of us were called on facebook recently.... the folks that have been trying to expose that hellhole and possibly shut it down  are supposedly the cream of the crop...,

 No Aaron I certianly don't want that doubious honor placed on my head, by a person IMHO that tries to run the program on fornits, and facebook, again in my opinion.

I said my piece on a post that ,Aaron is pulling the cream of of the crop from .... I said my piece as to how the past 3 plus weeks has made me feel.

Has anyone read Lord of the Flies?

Peace

Matt

[SEKTO]

Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!

[mark babitz]

Moreover, I do think those "rules" are more or less unenforceable, for all practical purposes.

Why are the rules unenforceable?  

To me, it's very simple, very black and white: somebody reads the forum rules.  If a person can follow the rules, then they can participate.  If they cannot, then they get a few warnings, and if they STILL cannot follow the rules, then they get banned.  

We're trying to have an intelligent conversation about the TPI here, at least most of us are.  This is not the online equivalent of The Jerry Springer Show.

You might find the ongoing fracas really amusing, and maybe even entertaining, Ursus.  

But most of the rest of us find it really annoying, and at this point more and more participants (actual and potential) are choosing to "tune out."

Fornits loses a lot of people for the simple reason that it's so poorly monitored and moderated.

I'd be willing to bet you that for every one new and legitimate poster who comes here looking for discussion, networking with other program survivors, and support (after all, that's why I started posting to fornits) there are ten who look at the melee and trolling and choose not to post at all.  And then the whole purpose of this place has been defeated.  

Let's change a couple of words in that original quote, and maybe then you'll see my point more clearly.

When people pretty much completely stop posting because of the excesses of a certain belligerent Irish bully, what is effectively happening is that he (the bully) is moderating the ability of others to post. This is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

:jawdrop:  I dont see were the conversation on this or any other thread stops any of you from posting, I am responding to your post.as a matter of fact. I agree that some of the arguments get loud, but they do burn them selfs out without any help from the peanut gallery.The thing I have had with the Seymours burned itself out.I think and can see from thier last post Joel and AAron are done fighting. Who won ?? Well it wasnt a competition no one did, Just some views got shot around.But all of us are ok and maybe grew from the experience. Everyone here is an adult and dont need a den mother to watch us.The views on this thread are at 5600.and post are 421.page has been around since Jan 17th 2010 and all of the threads we post on have unbelievable numbers and posts.Thats almost 1900 views a month  63 per day. You folks need a math class.Its called open free for all, and that what it is.The free for all. get all 3 of your attention and posts.Even your view points are listen too.There are plenty of pages on this site to go and hug trees and talk about stuff that doesnt concern any of you . And run around talking about changing the mental health world,etc. we all have our dreams and hopes.But arguments are real and deal with real changeable things.I think that if someone doesnt like what they read move the fuck on .Dont try and sensor or direct.,you wouldnt want anyone to do that to you when your posting bull-shit to bull-shit, Talking about thing that will never change or something that has no pertinence to the topic. No one follows any of you around  judging or criticizing your posts. Because no one cares what any of you post, the adults here relies and respect thats your opinion. Maybe not agree but non the less dont throw their two cents in. Perhaps thats something you persecutors of free speech should look at and do. After all your doing the complaining on a thread that has more views  and actively than most of anything going on here.No Free For All is a huge success, and draws the numbers. Trolls go both ways, read the definition   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet). And your posting stop the fighting on a basic fight page AKA Free For All your trolling. What you are posting is off topic on this page.This page and the free for all pages are for saying whats on your mind, There are plenty of spots on this fourm to behave yourself, thats why some of us come here , because we want to. Thats why the numbers are off the chart. it causes entertainment and great info about Elan and our goals to shut it down.There is infinite space on the internet,So these few threads dont take up much room in the big picture, nor are any of the complainers forced to read them or given no choice because its the only thing to read.So If some body doesnt like the post move on,but I know from the proof of numbers you will still tune in to see whats next .A person cant help it it is fun and entertaining. and in the middle are some good lessons and info about Elan and life.Your just reading the highlights not everything in the tread, but thats why all  of you are  for, are the highlights, they are the most fun I agree. :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:

[Ursus]

Ursus ,,,I'm not sure what you mean this is not what we are dealing with now .

I mean that we are not dealing with a flooding situation, where it is damned difficult to even physically find the threads and posts ya want to respond to, for the load of chaff at the forefront. And that this had been going on for months, and that all other less intrusive and more mediating-type methods had failed to stem that tide.

Ursus  the past three weeks I have felt that if I posted anything contrary to someones belief (no matter how gentle I went about it) about elan ,AA my experiences in elan, any facts about  the program, and the fact that I survivied the program , that the program was going to do anything in its power  (personal attacks and threats)to try to attack my credibility, and survivourship (that I own) of that place. And I find that dispicable,and those are my feelings on the  matter.

And you've been doing a fantastic job! I personally find your posts both eloquent and compelling.

But how can someone disagreeing with you possibly undermine that? Let alone someone who consistently communicates with gutter-level ad hominems, incoherent rantings, and yet with such a clear agenda. Can you not see how that looks to any sane person reading this board?

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Ursus,

I understand your point now  about the flooding .

And as to be able to undermine my credibility or how I conduct my self or my life, and my beliefs and convictions  . You are right if I step back and look at the big picture .... Ok I see that ....and you are right , it can't be done .....

I guess when the agenda reaches out and slaps the living daylights out of you , it is hard not to respond , and God forbid if you do, because here, comes the back slap and on and on it will go. It is a wonder that I have any tongue left in my head from biting it (lol) .

I reckon I'm human  , clear agenda or not , attacks hurt , and they cause pain ..no matter how laughable they are.

And there in lies the distraction. which does nothing to expose and shutdown elan..... or does it?  Hmm.

Sane readers  ,I reckon I forgot about  those folks , forgive me please.

Matt