Michael R. made the choice to kill himself.

[Anonymous]

Michael R. made the choice to kill himself.  There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide.  You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to  himself or others.  It's time to grow up folks.

[Anonymous]

Wait, is Whooter actually trolling with HIS OWN DEAD KID?

We have reached the pinnacle, here. There is no greater troll than this. 13/10 and a triple platinum star.

[Anonymous]

Was Michael R a dirty Jew?  I think Adolf Hitler threw him in the ole oven!

[Anonymous]

If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program,  how can you credit them?

(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point?  How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )

It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.

[psy]

Michael R. made the choice to kill himself.  There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide.  You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to  himself or others.  It's time to grow up folks.

I'd tend to agree that ultimately a person has a choice.  Still doesn't make it right to push somebody to it or make their existence and self image so miserable they want to.

[Whooter]

If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program,  how can you credit them?

(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point?  How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )

It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.

Valid point.  So the the thousands of lives that they save each year easily offsets the 1 or 2 that they miss.  Based on this they should be building more programs.

[Whooter]

Michael R. made the choice to kill himself.  There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide.  You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to  himself or others.  It's time to grow up folks.

I'd tend to agree that ultimately a person has a choice.  Still doesn't make it right to push somebody to it or make their existence and self image so miserable they want to.

I have read alot here and havent seen where he was pushed into it by anyone.  The only info we have is the obit.  Does anyone have anything else that we missed?  Are people making things up again?  Are there any threads dedicated to discussions based on facts here?

[Anonymous]

If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program,  how can you credit them?

(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point?  How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )

It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.

Valid point.  So the the thousands of lives that they save each year easily offsets the 1 or 2 that they miss.  Based on this they should be building more programs.

Proof of these "thousands of lives saved" every year? Love to see what you come up with! So far, there's lots of articles in respected main stream media featuring your victims' descriptions of torture and brainwashing, which have been proved to cause serious, deadly psychological debilitation, permanent insanity and suicide

But no independent peer reviewed articles that the teen torture industry does anything to benefit kids.

Your main teen torture groups the straights, CEDU have been outed as cults and closed under pressure of criminal and civil prosecution. Your largest teen torture groups tpday (aspen education group, wwasp) are near dead or have admitted NOT to provide medical treatment.

What teen torture group do you represent DRA.

 Ive read your victim's sworn testimony. Torturing kids doesn't help them. It just gives freaks like you a hard-on.

[Whooter]

According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility.  So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also.  So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.

You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.

[Anonymous]

According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility.  So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also.  So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.

You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.

No.

 I know you’re ignorant and dull as one of the corpses you produce, but here’s a hint, killer, that you would have taken long ago were you a thinker at a 4th grade level.

 Before making a medical claim, you need what we non-goons call "proof."

There has never been any sort of proof from your industry that has corroborated that their kidnap and imprisonment and “therapies”(torture and brainwash_ do anything positive whatsoever.

On the other hand there has been tons of peer reviewed evidence to corroborate the effects of long term imprisonment, kidnap, and brainwash—none of them positive.

Therefore we can say kidnap, imprisonment, torture and brainwash (the actions of org.s like diamond ranch academy, or Straight, or CEDU for example) cause suicide, and mental illness, and not that they have mental health benefits.

This will be hard for you to grasp. I know, your an idiot, with nothing to offer the world except cruelty.

[Whooter]

I think you just got my point.  

So lets test you out at the 5th grade level (since you claim to be smart):

So I ask you, again: "Where is the proof that these suicides are the responsibility of the program?",  "How do you hold the program responsible when a kid dies in a car accident, commits suicide or overdoses months or years after graduation from a program"

Lets see what was it you said again, ah yes, "Before making a medical claim, you need what we non-goons call "proof."

So how do you prove what they cannot in the autopsy?

[try another castle]

Where is the proof that these suicides are the responsibility of the program?

There is none.


All you can do is run a study to compare the # of suicides committed by program grads to the # of suicides in a control group. (probably several control groups)

Then attempt to determine what exactly is the nature of the causal relationship, if there is one. (that will be determined by the significance of the disparity) The cause may be the program, it could also be some other criteria that the experimental group has in common, which the control group does not. There may not be any way to even develop a causal hypothesis, and all people will have are the numbers and percentages. Sometimes, that data alone is enough.

Due to the fact that no study has been conducted, neither you nor anyone else, can refute or confirm any sort of hypothesis regarding this. So as far as Im concerned, all of you should just STFU. You don't exactly sound like a statistician, and neither is anyone else here, so nobody is qualified to have any conclusive proof about any of this, whether the rates be that of "success" (which is a bogus, subjective criteria) or suicide. (which is slightly more concrete)


Of course, this issue has been discussed extensively in other threads already, so you either have not read them, or you are just looking to be the proverbial itchy asshole.


Also, re: OP, saying someone had the choice to kill themselves is rather redundant. If it wasn't their choice, then it wouldn't be a suicide, it would be murder.

Also, please fix your spambot. You're leaving a trail all over the place.

[Anonymous]

According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility. So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also. So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.

You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.

Fornits people are devoted to blaming the programs for everything.  If a child kills himself outside of the program, it's the programs fault.  If a child beats someone, it's the program's fault.  Fornits motto:  Blame the cults!

[Anonymous]

PSY,

Is there a program that is any good or are you equally predjudiced against any attempts to help a seriously conduct disordered youth.  Hypothetically if you had a 13 year old daughter (which is very hypo because you are gay or arn't you?)  that was having sex with a 35 year old drug dealer and contracted a severe form of herpes what would you do?  Have her go live with Ursus and just allow her to do doobies all day and go out all night and have the drug dealing old man to stay over every night.  What is your answer.  We are all waiting for an alternative?  Now don't be shy you Ursus and the rest of your obsessive compulsive little looser fornits have all glummed together in a groupthink support tank and leveled heavy artillery at the whole world and everyone in it.  WHAT'S YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

And leave all your little dirty mouthed responses and all your dirty mouthed fornits responses out of the debate.  Just good rational Obama language.
RA

[Anonymous]

All programs are bad according to Psy because he was tortured at Benchmark.