Long-Term Outcome Studies

[Troll Control]

http://http://www.northstarcenter.com/drugtreatmentterms.html#honorcode

Hmmmm...Whooter claimed DJ tried to "blur the line between therapist and counselor" but Northstar's VERY OWN WEBSITE states that the terms "counselor" and "therapist" are "used interchangeably" and that the term "counseling" is "used interchangeably" with the term "therapy."

Looks like Whooter is caught with his pants down again.  His own beloved Aspen program admits what DJ said, but Whooter denies it.  Now Whooter wants us to believe him over the program's own words again.  I'll go with what the facility says in cold print rather than a troll (Whooter).

We all know it stings, Whooter.  And that your credibilty is damaged beyond repair.  But don't lash out at us, it's Aspen that discredited you, not us.  Your anger should be reserved for them, not us.  It's hard to deal with for you.  I understand.  But we're patient and once you can admit the truth to yourself and to others, you will heal from this emotional damage Aspen inflicted on you by admitting the truth.  Try to keep your chin up and take your medicine like a man.  Maybe some people would respect you for trying to tell the truth for the first time in your Fronits career.

So, when they say therapist=counselor and counseling=therapy on their website (that link above goes right to it) are they lying to the public, i.e. advertising falsely?  If not, they lied in court.

I wonder why if Aspen can admit that they don't provide treatment that TheWho keeps saying they do.  they just said they didn't.  I believe the court records over TheWho's trolling.

I like to go right to the defendant's website that clearly states all of their counselors are therapists and all couseling sessions are therapy.  If they do it without a license, they're criminals and should be jailed.  TheWho is really bent out of shape that Aspen admits this.  He wants to keep denying it, but what's the sense.  Aspen admitted they provide no treatment.  What's done is done.

[Whooter]

I like to go right to the defendant's website that clearly states all of their counselors are therapists and all couseling sessions are therapy.  If they do it without a license, they're criminals and should be jailed.  TheWho is really bent out of shape that Aspen admits this.  He wants to keep denying it, but what's the sense.  Aspen admitted they provide no treatment.  What's done is done.

The main thing is that the courts feel that Aspen provides treatment and employs licensed counselors (or Therapists if you like)

The courts looked into it and here is what they had to say:


2 The parties seem to agree that although Trudy Godat was not licenced, one member of Matthew Pence's "treatment team" was a licenced therapist.

So we can all see that Aspen Education Group provides treatment and their therapists (or counselors if you like) are licensed.

Court Records

[Troll Control]

http://http://www.northstarcenter.com/drugtreatmentterms.html#honorcode

Hmmmm...Whooter claimed DJ tried to "blur the line between therapist and counselor" but Northstar's VERY OWN WEBSITE states that the terms "counselor" and "therapist" are "used interchangeably" and that the term "counseling" is "used interchangeably" with the term "therapy."

Looks like Whooter is caught with his pants down again.  His own beloved Aspen program admits what DJ said, but Whooter denies it.  Now Whooter wants us to believe him over the program's own words again.  I'll go with what the facility says in cold print rather than a troll (Whooter).

We all know it stings, Whooter.  And that your credibilty is damaged beyond repair.  But don't lash out at us, it's Aspen that discredited you, not us.  Your anger should be reserved for them, not us.  It's hard to deal with for you.  I understand.  But we're patient and once you can admit the truth to yourself and to others, you will heal from this emotional damage Aspen inflicted on you by admitting the truth.  Try to keep your chin up and take your medicine like a man.  Maybe some people would respect you for trying to tell the truth for the first time in your Fronits career.

So, when they say therapist=counselor and counseling=therapy on their website (that link above goes right to it) are they lying to the public, i.e. advertising falsely?  If not, they lied in court.

I wonder why if Aspen can admit that they don't provide treatment that TheWho keeps saying they do.  they just said they didn't.  I believe the court records over TheWho's trolling.

I like to go right to the defendant's website that clearly states all of their counselors are therapists and all couseling sessions are therapy.  If they do it without a license, they're criminals and should be jailed.  TheWho is really bent out of shape that Aspen admits this.  He wants to keep denying it, but what's the sense.  Aspen admitted they provide no treatment.  What's done is done.

Excellent Point, guest.  It's all over save for the crying, which Whooter is currently doing.

[Ursus]

I like to go right to the defendant's website that clearly states all of their counselors are therapists and all couseling sessions are therapy.  If they do it without a license, they're criminals and should be jailed.  TheWho is really bent out of shape that Aspen admits this.  He wants to keep denying it, but what's the sense.  Aspen admitted they provide no treatment.  What's done is done.

The main thing is that the courts feel that Aspen provides treatment and employs licensed counselors (or Therapists if you like)

The courts looked into it and here is what they had to say:


2 The parties seem to agree that although Trudy Godat was not licenced, one member of Matthew Pence's "treatment team" was a licenced therapist.

So we can all see that Aspen Education Group provides treatment and their therapists (or counselors if you like) are licensed.

Court Records

ONE licensed member out of a whole friggin' team of what Aspen likes to call "counselors" or "therapists" is NOT the same thing as a team of licensed counselors or therapists.

Stop fudging by twisting the semantics, Whooter. This is a false and misleading statement:

"So we can all see that Aspen Education Group provides treatment and their therapists (or counselors if you like) are licensed."[/list]

Just because one member of Mathew Pence's treatment team is licensed does not by any stretch of the imagination imply that all are licensed.

In fact, it was found that only one member was licensed, the others were not.

[Whooter]

So we agree that Aspen Education Group hires licensed therapists.  We also agree that not all staff members are licensed nor need to be.  What needs to be established is how many licensed therapists does each school need to have.  Is it one?...two?  ten?

If one licensed therapist is sufficient then North Star is in compliance.

[Troll Control]

In compliance with what?  They have unlicesned counselors doing therapy sessions.  That's illegal.  It's a crime in fact.

The lawsuit is still ongoing.  Aspen is being sued for illegally providing therapy using unlicensed counselors which they call "therapists" on the website.

You're flailing and failing, Who boy.

Please show us the Oregon law where unlicensed people can deliver therapy.

[Whooter]

In compliance with what?  They have unlicesned counselors doing therapy sessions.  That's illegal.  It's a crime in fact.

Whenever possible we go back to the source and in this instance the courts just dont agree with you.  Lets take another look at it:

2 The parties seem to agree that although Trudy Godat (Director of North Star) was not licenced, one member of Matthew Pence's "treatment team" was a licenced therapist.

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.

Court Records

[Troll Control]

Here's a quote from the link you provided, Whooter:

There is evidence that NorthStar employees went through HIPAA training and took HIPAA quizzes prior to the disclosure at issue. Rose Aff., ¶ 4. This suggests the possibility that NorthStar may be a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA.

Northstar gave HIPAA training to all of it's unlicensed therapy providers.  They must think they are a covered entity. The court will decide this.  HIPAA has nothing to do with individuals, only the facility.

[Whooter]

Here's a quote from the link you provided, Whooter:

There is evidence that NorthStar employees went through HIPAA training and took HIPAA quizzes prior to the disclosure at issue. Rose Aff., ¶ 4. This suggests the possibility that NorthStar may be a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA.

Northstar gave HIPAA training to all of it's unlicensed therapy providers.  They must think they are a covered entity. The court will decide this.  HIPAA has nothing to do with individuals, only the facility.

One may think that and many would agree with you, but here is what the court says:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/i]

Court Records

[RMA Survivor]

The court said many things, but people are taking them out of context.

Those who are not licensed, are not covered, thus they are allowed to make police reports and give information whereas someone who is licensed might not be able to do so because of patient/doctor confidentiality.  I say might, because a therapist is required by law in many cases, such as expressions or suicide by the patient, to in fact call the police and report this.  However the case is explaining that those who are not licensed are not covered by this, thus the fact North Star called the police was legal and therefore the lawsuit claim invalid.

Second, the case is suggesting that although Matthew had an actual licensed therapist, and thus receiving treatment, North Star was indeed offering treatment.  What the case did not cover is whether the other staff, who are not licensed, are allowed to offer treatment or counseling under the law.  It also did not cover whether those other staff who are not licensed health professionals were providing treatment or counseling.  We however know that they do provide it and this is not legal.  But it does not appear to have been discussed or ruled upon specifically in the court case.

HIPAA rules cover entire entities and not individuals thus by having one person covered by the rules, the entity (North Star) had to be covered.  Whether the other staff who are not licensed or trained are covered is obvious by virtue of North Star being covered for their one licensed therapist.  And if North Star, or even Aspen as a whole give their staff training in HIPAA, that's cool.  However I highly doubt they actually follow those guidelines.

But the main argument here is whether staff, who are not licensed or trained should be performing any level of mental health work on teens?  And I think those who are not suck puppets tend to think this is illegal and immoral.  

If Aspen group had staff who simply worked with teens, providing them with an education, taking them on hikes, building simple teacher/student relationships and nothing else, and then the teen received ALL of their therapy and counseling directly from a licensed and trained medical person and NONE from the other staff, that would be a better setting.  But we know this is not the case.  We know even when a real trained person is on hand, the students receive the bulk of their counseling and treatment from unlicensed, untrained staff and this is wrong and immoral.

[Ursus]

Here's a quote from the link you provided, Whooter:

There is evidence that NorthStar employees went through HIPAA training and took HIPAA quizzes prior to the disclosure at issue. Rose Aff., ¶ 4. This suggests the possibility that NorthStar may be a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA.

Northstar gave HIPAA training to all of it's unlicensed therapy providers.  They must think they are a covered entity. The court will decide this.  HIPAA has nothing to do with individuals, only the facility.

One may think that and many would agree with you, but here is what the court says:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/i]

Court Records

Again, you quoted discussion pertinent to only one of the claims, intimating that it applied to all, and ignored that the court was unable to reach a finding on three out of the five claims. These three were:

III. Third Claim - Negligent Provision of Mental Health Tx
IV. Fourth Claim - Breach of Confidential Relationship
V. Fifth Claim - Punitive Damages[/list]

The HIPAA issues were pertinent to the 4th claim, not the 2nd as you attempt to imply.

Pence v. Aspen Education Group, Inc.

[Anonymous]

Here's a quote from the link you provided, Whooter:

There is evidence that NorthStar employees went through HIPAA training and took HIPAA quizzes prior to the disclosure at issue. Rose Aff., ¶ 4. This suggests the possibility that NorthStar may be a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA.

Northstar gave HIPAA training to all of it's unlicensed therapy providers.  They must think they are a covered entity. The court will decide this.  HIPAA has nothing to do with individuals, only the facility.

One may think that and many would agree with you, but here is what the court says:

The court agrees with defendants (Aspen Education Group) that Harless's alleged disclosure of Matthew Pence's confessions to police was not an extreme transgression of the bounds of socially tolerable conduct. Matthew Pence's IIED claim therefore fails as a matter of law.[/i]

Court Records

You just make things up as yo go along, whooter. Anyone who can read can see that was not the finding.

Of note is the fact that the judge ruled Aspen Education Group was liable for Harless's actions not because it provides "treatment," but only because some of its employees took HIPPA classes.

Also of note is that Aspen Education Group's legal position is that it's employees are free to inform the law about the details of participant confessions; the individual therapists who do so are only individually responsible for acts of confidentiality breach, not aspen itself, not being a healthcare treatment provider, and all non licensed therapists are free of even individual accountability.

That puts a new spin on all those stipulated "confession letters,"  and all those public confessions of wrongdoing which non licensed personnel are privy to during the course of the "program" as they are free to be handed over to the authorities and legally used against participants at any moment.

[Troll Control]

Whooter's "interpretation" of HIPAA is so astoundingly ignorant, one must wonder if he recently took a sever blow to the head.  Let me educate you, Whooter.  HIPAA covers facilities, not individuals.  And any individual who works for the covered entity, from the janitor to the director is forbidden from disclosing anything that happens with any client of that facility.  Get it now?

And so far as this lawsuit is concerned, the judge simply sated that if Aspen provides no treatment, then HIPAA doesn't apply.  If that's the case, fine, disclose client information whenever you want.  The problem is that this facility performed therapy with its clients and the therapists are not licensed.  Providing therapy (or counseling) when unlicensed to do so is a crime, plain and simple.  Like practicing medicine without a license.  Same deal.

So we clearly see Aspen is guilty of at least one criminal/tortious action.  They either provided therapy without a license to do so (a crime) or they were licensed and violated HIPAA (a tort).  Either way, they're guilty as sin.

[RMA Survivor]

Bingo!  Well said.

[Ursus]

Anybody know how this case turned out?

As I mentioned previously, whether it was this thread or one of the other ones discussing this case, I was unable to find any further mention of it despite extensive searching. The case as it stands right now, i.e., what has been posted, is a summary judgment requested by both parties in the hopes of foregoing a jury trial.

The judge ruled on two of the five claims. The remaining three are assumed to continue to a jury trial.

It's possible that this case is stashed in one of those pay-per-view or subscriber archives such as WestLaw. It's also possible that it hasn't come to trial yet. And it's also possible that Aspen may have offered some kind of settlement to prevent said damning issues from seeing any more light of day.