Author Topic: Long-Term Outcome Studies  (Read 18426 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2009, 12:27:06 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "John D. Reuben"
Quote from: "Inculcated"
Wow you actually provided a link!


you should read the link first!!

The therapist is licensed and needs to adhere to the HIPPA laws which they do. The counselors and staff who are not licensed do not need to adhere to these (see DJ misread it, the counselors and staff don’t need to be licensed). Aspen education knows this and you just choose to misinterpret the posting.

DJ tried to blur the difference between therapist and counselor, Nice try.

One of the struggles here with posters is differentiating between counselors/staff and therapists.  One is licensed by the state and the other doesnt need to be.  We all know that but you like to mislead the readers.... we all know that and that is why I am here.





One of the struggles here with you is your being too stupid to defend the Aspen Education Group torture cult you fed your boy too. Come up with better duplicities, Reuben.


There‘s no relevant distinction between a "therapist" and "counselor."  These terms are fairly interchangeable, and, anyway, to call yourself either one you need to have a LICENSE—something the people overseeing Pence’s "therapy" did not.

http://www.counselingseattle.com/consumer/2.htm

In this case, Aspen education program, plaintiff and judge use the terms "counselor" and "therapist" interchangeably about the woman in question.
Quote from: "Pence v Aspen Education Group 2"
NorthStar did not promise to do the things that plaintiffs complain they failed to do, such as provide counseling by a LICENSED counselor

Matthew Pence met with NorthStar COUNSELOR Trudy Godat sometime around 5:00 or 5:30PM on July 2, 2003.

Plaintiffs complain that Matthew Pence was seen by an unlicensed THERAPIST, Trudy Godat

Quote from: "Pence v Aspen Education Group 2"
Plaintiffs find the duty of confidentiality in Oregon's confidentiality statute, Oregon statutes regulating professional COUNSELORS, and the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). Oregon's confidentiality statutes provide only that a confidential relationship is not breached if a disclosure is permitted by state or federal law. Or. Rev. Stat. § 192.523; Or. Rev. Stat. § 192.520. Because she is not a LICENCED COUNSELOR and there is no evidence she is an employee of a licensed counselor, Harless is not subject to confidentiality laws applicable to licensed counselors and their employees.



Aspen Education Group’s whole defense stands on the premise it NEVER promised to, NOR does it provide therapeutic treatment conformative to accepted medical practices, that it is not a treatment program for mental or drug disorders, by any legal definition, that the “counseling sessions” it provides are not therapeutic processes, and that the employees that provide them are not licensed therapists or medical personnel enough for it  to be libel  HIPPA statutes.

Also, Aspen Education Group specifies on its website that it does not differentiate between 'counselor' and 'therapist,' 'counseling' and 'therapy'.
http://www.northstarcenter.com/drugtrea ... #honorcode

Quote from: "Aspen Education Group, North star center"
Definition of Counselor: This term is used interchangeably with therapist to indicate the staff member who is primarily responsible for the emotional growth of the student. The counselors meet with students one to two times weekly and work on a wide range of recovery, emotional and family issues



Quote from: "Aspen Education Group, North star center"
Definition of Therapy
This is used interchangeably with counseling. The counselors meet with students one to two times weekly and work on a wide range of recovery, emotional and family issues. A variety of therapy techniques are used depending on the counselor. Due to confidentiality restrictions, what takes place in therapy sessions is between the student and his/her counselor.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2009, 08:27:19 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"

Well it may not be considered treatment but they do a great job addressing the kids problems and getting them back on track.  Their outcome studies are impressive.  I think they call it a model.  All the kids go through the same stages and then emerge together and are back on track.  They can see licensed therapists if their family wants them to or if it is part of their plan.  Some are part of the school and others are independent depending on the program.

So the parents get to decide if they want their child to receive therapy or not?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2009, 09:56:13 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"

Well it may not be considered treatment but they do a great job addressing the kids problems and getting them back on track.  Their outcome studies are impressive.  I think they call it a model.  All the kids go through the same stages and then emerge together and are back on track.  They can see licensed therapists if their family wants them to or if it is part of their plan.  Some are part of the school and others are independent depending on the program.

So the parents get to decide if they want their child to receive therapy or not?

Well each program is different.  If you son or daughter is presently seeing a therapist then that will continue and his and her medication will be monitored by a therapist at the school.  But if your child is not presently seeing a therapist then you can decide if this is something that is right for you.  But most of these questions can be answered by the individual program depending on what they offer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2009, 10:21:58 AM »
I found this finding interesting:

About 95% of the youth in our study had received and "failed" prior treatment at other levels of care and/ or types of treatment."


Youth who entered the programs with extreme and sometimes disabling psychological and social problems ranked in the 97th percentile, meaning they were functioning worse than 97% percent of teenagers.
 "Typically, in outcome research, you'll see a change but not like what we found in this study, which showed a dramatic change of 30-40 percentile points. Not only did the youth change significantly for the better while they were in treatment, but that change was not dependent on their demographic background, treatment history or types of problems.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2009, 01:56:17 PM »
The point being made here is that there was no treatment.  Aspen has stated they do not treat people.  Not for medical or drug or any other issues.  They like to call themselves counselors and therapists, but they are not.  So any study claiming they have treated anyone is nonsense as they have already claimed they don't do that at all.  You cannot have it both ways.  

And I am sure that 90% to 95% of all people who see professional therapists show a 40% to 45% immediate improvement in their attitudes and behaviors.  How you measure this is beyond me.  Such a study would likely be bogus unless you have measurable criteria to base such statements on.  People crave attention, especially when suffering from depression, drug use, anxiety issues.  Any attention, in the short terms is helpful.  But depending on the quality of that attention, long term benefits would be questionable.  But professionals have years of experience learning about what works and why, and what doesn't work and why.  Hacks, like those found in these programs, have no such backgrounds.  They base their pseudo counseling and pseudo therapy on pseudo claims.  Just because a staff member has taken drugs, does not qualify them to "counsel" teens on drug usage.  Though talking to someone who has had a similar experience may have a very short term benefit.  But I would emphasize "may".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2009, 02:48:25 PM »
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
The point being made here is that there was no treatment.  Aspen has stated they do not treat people.  Not for medical or drug or any other issues.  They like to call themselves counselors and therapists, but they are not.  So any study claiming they have treated anyone is nonsense as they have already claimed they don't do that at all.  You cannot have it both ways.
 

Where does it say that Aspen doesnt provide treatment?

Quote
And I am sure that 90% to 95% of all people who see professional therapists show a 40% to 45% immediate improvement in their attitudes and behaviors.

Now how can you say that with a straight face with no links and data to back you up, yet you critisize a research firm because it had employees who may have worked in the industry.   You dont even see yyoiur own bias.  You discredit people because of results dont align with your believe, not because of the work that was done.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2009, 03:04:59 PM »
Yes, the link was already provided several time to the lawsuit where Aspen used a defense based on the fact that they do not provide treatment.  You even said before, Whooter, that "Aspen doesn't have to provide treatment only results."  You've already conceded the point and so did Aspen, in court, under oath.  It's cut and dried.

Aspen admitted it provides no treatment of any kind, therapy or medical.  Too late for you, Whooter.  Your boss already admitted what you don't want to hear.  Don't cry about it.  You should be outraged.  They killed you son and did it with non-treatment.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2009, 03:05:48 PM »
< YAWN >
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2009, 04:13:27 PM »
And my purpose in stating that 90 to 95 percent will show a 40 to 45 percent improvement was meant to convey that such a statement, without some kind of context, some basis in reality, without showing methods used to reach such a statement, are therefore bogus.  And you validated my point.  

You post "articles" about Aspen conducting studies, yet we see no methods used for reaching their conclusions. Thus the argument is invalid by the very lack of details regarding how such conclusion were made.  You might have solid, unwavering support for everything Aspen related, but some of us do not.  And because Aspen has no employees working for them with the qualifications needed to conduct studies, research or make valid conclusions on any topic, including what toilet paper has been favored by the majority of students over a twenty year time period... Everything they claim is suspect.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2009, 09:00:57 PM »
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
And my purpose in stating that 90 to 95 percent will show a 40 to 45 percent improvement was meant to convey that such a statement, without some kind of context, some basis in reality, without showing methods used to reach such a statement, are therefore bogus.  And you validated my point.  

You post "articles" about Aspen conducting studies, yet we see no methods used for reaching their conclusions. Thus the argument is invalid by the very lack of details regarding how such conclusion were made.  You might have solid, unwavering support for everything Aspen related, but some of us do not.  And because Aspen has no employees working for them with the qualifications needed to conduct studies, research or make valid conclusions on any topic, including what toilet paper has been favored by the majority of students over a twenty year time period... Everything they claim is suspect.

I have seen it stated that Aspen doesn’t provide treatment or have licensed people.  But there isnt anything to back that up.  All we see is a lawsuit from Northstar but no reference to other programs,  so the methods of drawing conclusions can be consistent and all statements are suspect unless followed up with evidence.

As long as we are clear on both sides of the issue.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2009, 09:01:33 PM »
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
And my purpose in stating that 90 to 95 percent will show a 40 to 45 percent improvement was meant to convey that such a statement, without some kind of context, some basis in reality, without showing methods used to reach such a statement, are therefore bogus.  And you validated my point.  

You post "articles" about Aspen conducting studies, yet we see no methods used for reaching their conclusions. Thus the argument is invalid by the very lack of details regarding how such conclusion were made.  You might have solid, unwavering support for everything Aspen related, but some of us do not.  And because Aspen has no employees working for them with the qualifications needed to conduct studies, research or make valid conclusions on any topic, including what toilet paper has been favored by the majority of students over a twenty year time period... Everything they claim is suspect.

I have seen it stated that Aspen doesn’t provide treatment or have licensed people.  But there isnt anything to back that up.  All we see is a lawsuit from Northstar but no reference to other programs,  so the methods of drawing conclusions can be consistent and all statements are suspect unless followed up with evidence.

As long as we are clear on both sides of the issue.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2009, 10:25:53 AM »
http://http://www.northstarcenter.com/drugtreatmentterms.html#honorcode

Hmmmm...Whooter claimed DJ tried to "blur the line between therapist and counselor" but Northstar's VERY OWN WEBSITE states that the terms "counselor" and "therapist" are "used interchangeably" and that the term "counseling" is "used interchangeably" with the term "therapy."

Looks like Whooter is caught with his pants down again.  His own beloved Aspen program admits what DJ said, but Whooter denies it.  Now Whooter wants us to believe him over the program's own words again.  I'll go with what the facility says in cold print rather than a troll (Whooter).

We all know it stings, Whooter.  And that your credibilty is damaged beyond repair.  But don't lash out at us, it's Aspen that discredited you, not us.  Your anger should be reserved for them, not us.  It's hard to deal with for you.  I understand.  But we're patient and once you can admit the truth to yourself and to others, you will heal from this emotional damage Aspen inflicted on you by admitting the truth.  Try to keep your chin up and take your medicine like a man.  Maybe some people would respect you for trying to tell the truth for the first time in your Fronits career.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2009, 12:43:12 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"

I have seen it stated that Aspen doesn’t provide treatment or have licensed people.  But there isnt anything to back that up.  All we see is a lawsuit from Northstar but no reference to other programs,  so the methods of drawing conclusions can be consistent and all statements are suspect unless followed up with evidence.

As long as we are clear on both sides of the issue.

I have something from court documents which may help:

2 The parties seem to agree that although Trudy Godat (Director of North Star) was not licenced, one member of Matthew Pence's "treatment team" was a licenced therapist.

So we can all see that Aspen Education Group provides treatment and their therapists (or counselors if you like) are licensed.

Court Records
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2009, 12:46:06 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
http://http://www.northstarcenter.com/drugtreatmentterms.html#honorcode

Hmmmm...Whooter claimed DJ tried to "blur the line between therapist and counselor" but Northstar's VERY OWN WEBSITE states that the terms "counselor" and "therapist" are "used interchangeably" and that the term "counseling" is "used interchangeably" with the term "therapy."

Looks like Whooter is caught with his pants down again.  His own beloved Aspen program admits what DJ said, but Whooter denies it.  Now Whooter wants us to believe him over the program's own words again.  I'll go with what the facility says in cold print rather than a troll (Whooter).

We all know it stings, Whooter.  And that your credibilty is damaged beyond repair.  But don't lash out at us, it's Aspen that discredited you, not us.  Your anger should be reserved for them, not us.  It's hard to deal with for you.  I understand.  But we're patient and once you can admit the truth to yourself and to others, you will heal from this emotional damage Aspen inflicted on you by admitting the truth.  Try to keep your chin up and take your medicine like a man.  Maybe some people would respect you for trying to tell the truth for the first time in your Fronits career.

So, when they say therapist=counselor and counseling=therapy on their website (that link above goes right to it) are they lying to the public, i.e. advertising falsely?  If not, they lied in court.

I wonder why if Aspen can admit that they don't provide treatment that TheWho keeps saying they do.  they just said they didn't.  I believe the court records over TheWho's trolling.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Long-Term Outcome Studies
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2009, 01:05:25 PM »
Whenever there is confusion I like to go back to the source.  The courts and the lawyers for Aspen and the Pences Lawyers all agree that Aspen Provides "Treatment" and that they employ "Licensed Therapists (or counselors if you like)".  Lets take another look:

I have something from court documents which may help:

2 The parties seem to agree that although Trudy Godat (Director of North Star) was not licenced, one member of Matthew Pence's "treatment team" was a licenced therapist.

So we can all see that Aspen Education Group provides treatment and their therapists (or counselors if you like) are licensed.

Court Records[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »