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Offline Awake

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2009, 11:48:34 AM »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2009, 11:49:40 AM »
Op. I guarantee you that if you ever mention the term 'teen torture industry' to anyone other than the losers on fornits, you will be immediately discredited in the eyes of your audience, and they will have a hard time keeping in the laughter.

you: I want to inform you about the TEEN TORTURE INDUSTRY.

them: WTF are you talking about? Abu gharib or something?

you: No, I'm talking about TEEN PROGRAMS. Take a look at this website for one for one of them.

them: Huh. It doesn't look that bad. Look at the kids having fun playing sports and making music, and doing therapy.

you: They are FORCED to do those things. Hence, it's torture.

them: OK. Have a good day now, sorry, but I don't have any spare change.

you: No worries, sir. God bless you anyways.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2009, 11:54:59 AM »
Abu gharib is were everyone associated with fornits should have went.
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Offline Awake

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2009, 12:28:55 PM »
figured its post worthy. Anyways the direct connections, as you will see, are Carl Rogers worked with the CIA on MK-Ultra and at the same time founded Humanistic psychiatry (which models "exceptional" people and figures in society as opposed to traditional psychiatry which studies disfunctional members) and spawned the Human Potential Movement with Abraham Maslow who partnered with Synanon. The Human Potential Movement's beliefs, in short, are that humans have unlimitted potential and it is just a question of unlocking it, essentially nobody is living up to their full potential, from their psychiatric viewpoint that makes you mentally ill. Synanon seems to have been the perfect model community to implement their social agenda.

Below are excerpts from a paper about Carl Rogers, co-founder of the Human potential Movement With Maslow. It is taken from the Journal of Humanistic Psychology so it is biased in favor of Rogers, but still revealing.
Carl Rogers and the CIA
Journal of Humanistic Psychology 2008; 48; 6 originally published online Oct 24, 2007;
Carl Rogers was a pioneer and leader in the humanistic psychology movement. Although his many professional activities and accomplishments are well known, the story of his association with the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology—a front organization for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)—is barely known and has never been explored in any depth. This article attempts to tell that story in the context of America during the 1950s, Rogers’s academic career, and the mission of the CIA.
Symbolic of Rogers’s stature in the world of psychology in the 1950s was his historic debate in 1956 with the leading figure in the behaviorist school of psychology, B. F. Skinner (Rogers & Skinner, 1956; Skinner, 1948, 1968). On that occasion, Rogers warned of the growing danger of governments using the behavioral sciences to exercise more effective control over their citizens. In his conclusion, Rogers stated,
“It is my hope that we have helped to clarify the range of choice which will lie before us and our children in regard to the behavioral sciences. We can choose to use our growing knowledge to enslave people in ways never dreamed of before, depersonalizing them, controlling them by means so carefully selected that they will perhaps never be aware of their loss of personhood.” …… (Rogers & Skinner, 1956, p. 1064)
What Rogers did not mention and what virtually no one at the time knew was that while Carl Rogers was voicing these noble sentiments and was becoming arguably the leading spokesperson for the emerging movement in humanistic psychology, he was also working with the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
1977 that John Marks, of the Center for National Securities Studies in Washington, D.C., dramatically exposed the CIA’s involvement in mind control and behavior control research. Marks’s book, The Search for the “Manchurian Candidate”: The CIA and Mind Control, appeared in 1979 and included additional information on Rogers’s involvement. Also of interest was psychological knowledge that might help the CIA understand “brainwashing,” that is, techniques to change a person’s belief, control a person’s thought processes, or get a person to carry out the controller’s wishes.
Agency officials were convinced that the Soviet Union and communist China had, or might soon have, powerful brainwashing techniques and witnessed the 70% of 7,190 American Korean War prisoners held in China who made confessions, denounced their country, or signed petitions against the U.S. role in the war, many of whom even held on to their beliefs after they were repatriated to the United States (Marks, 1979; Thomas, 1989). Hence, the CIA was committed to doing whatever it took to learn as much as possible about psychological processes that might facilitate or resist brainwashing and other forms of psychological persuasion.
Thus, within a few years of its creation, the CIA was involved with drug experiments, the use of hypnosis, and behavior-control programs, activities that continued for many years (Marks, 1979).
Ross (2000) documented that MKULTRA was the umbrella for 149 “subprojects” that covered
a wide range of topics, including but not limited to the effects of LSD and other drugs, hypnosis, stress, and sensory deprivation. In many of these projects, the participants were unknowing or unwilling participants—research that would be illegal or at least highly unethical today.
Although some scientists were funded without knowledge of CIA and MKULTRA backing, Rogers seemed to have top-secret clearance for his work and knowledge of the CIA connection (Ross, 2000). Why would the CIA want to give money to Rogers to study “the correlation of psychological and physiological variables in personality and personality change,” as he described it in his annual report?
Rogers’s work with schizophrenics outside the CIA context might seem worthwhile and admirable. However, this same work, when placed in the context of CIA mind control, may, to some, stain Rogers’s image or raise questions about his motivations or ethics.
As Rogers explained his motives to Greenfield (1977), “ It seemed as though Russia was a very potential enemy and as though the United States was very wise to get whatever information it could about things that the Russians might try to do, such as brainwashing or influencing people. So that it didn’t seem at all dishonorable to me to be connected with an intelligence outfit at that time. I look at it quite differently now. (p. 10)”
Or perhaps he knew the general content of the research but not the details. For example, a proposal might request funding to study the effects of LSD on the self-disclosure or memory of college students, but it seems unlikely that the full board would be told that the college students were to be duped into the experiment and not informed that they would be receiving an experimental drug.


Synanon and Eupsychia. Journal of Humanistic Psychology 1967; 7; 28
These are excerpts from a speech given by Abraham Maslow, leading figure in the Human Potential Movement alongside Carl Rogers, at the Synanon branch in NY, Daytop Village, Staten Island, N. Y., on August 14, 1965. Synanon is a community run by former drug addicts to which addicts come to be cured. (Cedu was started in ’67. Also in 67' Synanon adopted the idea of lifetime therapy and became a self-proclaimed utopian community.)

What I have read about Synanon, as well as what I saw last night and this afternoon, suggests that the whole idea of the fragile teacup which might crack or break, the idea that you mustn't say a loud word to anybody because it might traumatize him or hurt him, the idea that people cry easily or crack easily or commit suicide or go crazy if you shout at them - that maybe these ideas are outdated.
I've suggested that a name for this might be "no-crap therapy." It serves to clean out the defenses, the rationalizations, the veils, the evasions and politenesses of the world. The world is half-blind, you might say, and what I've seen here is the restoring of sight. In these groups people refuse to accept the normal veils. They rip them aside and refuse to take any crap or excuses or evasions of any sort.
Well, I have been asking questions, and I have been told that this assumption works fine. Did anybody ever commit suicide or crack in any way? No. Has anyone gone crazy from this rough treatment? No. I watched it last night. There was extremely direct talking, and it worked fine. Now this contradicts a whole lifetime of training, and that makes it terribly important to me as a theoretical psychologist who has been trying to figure out what human nature is like in general. It raises a real question about the nature of the whole human species. How strong are people? How much can they take? The big question is how much honesty can people take. There are all sorts of games cooked up to cover the truth, but the truth is that the average American citizen does not have a real friend in the world. Very few people have what a psychologist would call real friendships. The marriages are mostly no good in that ideal sense as well. You could say that the kinds of problems we have, the open troubles - not being able to resist alcohol, not being able to resist drugs, not being able to resist crime, not being able to resist anything - that these are due to the lack of these basic psychological gratifications. The question is, does Daytop supply these psychological vitamins? My impression as I wandered around this place this morning is that it does.
It seems possible that this brutal honesty, rather than being an insult, implies a kind of respect. You can take it as you find it, as it really is. And this can be a basis for respect and friendship. I remember hearing an analyst talking a long time ago, long before group therapy. He was talking about this honesty too. What he was saying sounded foolish at the time, as if he was being cruel or some-thing. What he said was that "I place upon my patients the fullest load of anxiety that they can bear." Do you realize what that implies? As much as they can take, that is what he is going to dish out, because the more he can dish out, the faster the whole thing will move. It doesn't seem so foolish in the light of experience here.
On the new social therapy. This is a thought which may turn out to be of professional interest to you. There is a new kind of job opening up that is an activist's job, and it is one that demands experience rather than book training. It is a sort of a combination of an old-fashioned minister and a teacher. You have to be concerned with people. You have to like working with them directly, rather than at a distance; and you have to have as much knowledge of human nature as possible. I have suggested calling it "social therapy." Well, this seems to be developing very gradually over the last year or two. The people who are doing best are not the people with Ph.D.s and so on; they are the people who have been on the streets and who know what it is all about themselves. They know what they're talking about. They know, for example, when to push hard and when to take it easy. With the sudden effort to try to teach the illiterate how to read; and of psychiatry to help people to maturity and responsibility; and so on, there is already a great shortage of people to do these jobs.
Well, one of the interesting things about Daytop is that it is being run by people who have been through the mill of experience. You people know how to talk to others in the same boat. And this is a job; it may be a new type of profession.
On the current social revolution. I could give you a half hour of examples of the way it takes place in different spots. There is a revolution going on. There are some spots which are more growing points than others; but they are all growing in the same Eupsychian direction, that is in the direction of more fully human people. This is going on in education as well. I think that it would be possible, if we got together and pooled all the experiences, bad and good, that we could all pool together, to take the skin off the whole damn educational system. But we could also rebuild it. Well, this is explosive because it demands a human reality, human needs, and human development, rather than a sort of traditional heritage from a thousand years ago which is outdated. It is difficult to speak about Eupsychian education. I think that you can contribute some with the thought that I suggested to you that you consider this as a sort of pilot experiment.
On encounters. May I tell you something. I've been in only one encounter group - last night - and I don't know how I would react if I'd been in that thing for a long time. Nobody has ever been that blunt with me in my whole life.
A major research question. That raises a question that I am asking around here. It is a very important question, and you don't really have the answer, I guess. The question is why do some people stay and others not? That also means, if you take this as a kind of educational institution, how good will it be for how much of the population? How many customers do you expect? How many people won't it work for? You know, the people who never show up do not get counted as failures. You people here overcame a hurdle, you overcame a fear. What is your theory about the people who don't jump over the fear? What is the difference between them and you? This is a practical question, since you people will be the graduates who will be running places like this somewhere else in the future. Then you must face the problem of how to make a larger percentage stay. I report to you that by comparison with that picture that procedure - what happens here is that the truth is being dished out and shoved right in your face. Nobody sits and waits for eight months until you discover it for yourself. At least the people who stay can accept it, and it appears to be good for them. That is in contradiction to a whole psychiatric theory.
From the kind of talking that we did last night, I very definitely have the feeling that the group would feed back things that you could not get in a hundred years of psychoanalysis from one person. Talking about what somebody looks like and what you look like to somebody else, and then having six other people agreeing about the impression you give, is revealing. Maybe it is not possible to form your own identity or a real picture of yourself unless you also get the picture of what you look like to the world. Well, that is a new assumption. In psychoanalysis that assumption isn't made. What you look like to other people isn't taken into account.
After you get over the pain, eventually self-knowledge is a very nice thing. It feels good to know about something rather than to wonder about it, to speculate about it. "Maybe he didn't speak to me because I'm bad, maybe they behaved that way because I'm bad." For the average man, life is just a succession of maybes. He doesn't know why people smile at him or why they don't. It is a very comfortable feeling not to have to guess. It is good to be able to know.

Catharsis in Human Potential Encounter
Journal of Humanistic Psychology 1974; 14; 27

In this article I shall focus on the rediscovery and use of catharsis in human potential encounter groups. I have chosen a limited topic. Catlarsis is but one aspect of contemporary encounter (Rogers, 1970; Schutz, 1967), and encounter itself is but one of many practices being explored by human potential practitioners (Peterson, 1971). Catharsis is not common to all human potential work. But its use is more widespread than in encounter groups. Practitioners of bioenergetics (Lowen, 1971), the Synanon game (Yablonsky, 1965), primal therapy (Janov, 1971) and gestalt therapy (Perls, 1969) utilize catharsis. From my point of mew, catharsis is a relatively easy and reliable way to produce a peak experience (Maslow, 1962), a period of self-transcendence. During this period, healing and personal growth take place more quickly than usual. Healing, personal growth, and self-transcendence loosely define the goals and purpose of the human potential practitioner. The range and scope of these myriad vehicles of transpersonal experience and exploration can best be judged through inspection of the Esalen Institute catalog or the more general listing made by Peterson
(1971).
Catalog of the Ways People Grow
In the discussion that follows, I shall focus attention on one such
practice: the use of human potential encounter groups to promote healing,
growth, and transcendence. Even more specifically, I shall emphasize the
use of catharsis in such groups, since I believe that catharsis is the most
frequent and valued tool for entry into transcendental realms of
experience.
CATHARSIS IN ENCOUNTER
Frequently in the course of an encounter group, participants experience a cathartic release of pent-up emotions or tension followed by an unusual, even ecstatic, sense of well-being-a feeling of having been cleansed or reborn. In this postcathartic state, conditions for healing, growth, and transcendence exist to an unusual degree: psychosomatic symptoms fall away, insights into personal behavior come easily and naturally, and a transcendent sense of union with cosmic order is common. But it is true that transcendent experience is the crown of the group experience. There exists no easier way to produce transcendent experience in a group of participants than through catharsis, assuming that we forego the use of psychedelic drugs.

POSTCATHARTIC PERIOD
Following the massive emotional release of catharsis, a person typically, but not inevitably, experiences an ecstasy, then a depression, and finally a return to normal. This relationship between a peak experience followed by a valley experience, a depression, resembles the postparturant depression following childbirth, the letdown that may follow a festival or holiday, or the state following ecstatic sexual union.
The blissful state arises no matter how catharsis comes about. This state of bliss, this mini-satori, however transient, is sought and cherished by encounter practitioners and participants alike. We seek and desire this cleansing and rebirth, and we patronize encounter groups as one of the few institutions in our middleclass subculture fostering such experiences.
The symptoms of this first stage of the postcathartic period are virtually identical to those described by Maslow (1962) in his study of peak experiences.
In brief, the postcathartic individual appears radiant, even luminous, to others. The eyes are unusually clear; muscles are relaxed yet energized; physical movement and verbal expression are graceful, even beautiful, and very much to the point. Inner symptoms include a remarkable sensitization to color and sound; an unusual perception of somatic events; a pervasive feeling of energy; and a feeling of profound well-being, ease, and familiarity within the ongoing, existential flow of life.
All of the unusual powers or abilities attributed to ecstatic states of being are confirmed in encounter experience. The postcathartic person has an unusual number of coincidences and other intimations of paranormal perception or comprehension. Healings and other so-called miracles or gifts are manifested. Psychological, somatic, and spiritual pathology may be suddenly washed away as if disease were in some way antithetical to the radiant state. The pragmatic consideration for group leaders is this: during the postcathartic radiant period, remarkable conditions favoring healing and growth obtain. We call this good working space. In good working space, change occurs easily.
Laski (1970) has described the similarities between religious conversion, the psychoanalytic ab reactive event, and political uses of brainwashing following cathartic breakdown of customary controls. In each case, for better or worse, a person’s entire belief system may be quickly and radically altered.
In human potential work, we say that the postcathartic individual has been deconditioned or unprogrammed and may be reconditioned or reprogrammed according to new beliefs and values. At this impressionable time, a person may readily fall in love, accept another person’s value system, or reaffirm an essential faith in personal values and beliefs. It is as if the participant were returned to the neonatal state, open and susceptible to the imprinting process described by ethologists. Because the postcathartic radiant person may be so impressionable, even unconscious values of the group leader or cultural event which produced the catharsis may be adopted. The responsibility of any programming agent is very great.

I cut ut down a bit. there's more on this page
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26020&start=30
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2009, 12:40:33 PM »
More conspiracy bullshit!  It is amazing how far conspiracy theorists will go on fornits.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2009, 12:48:12 PM »
Quote
Agency officials were convinced that the Soviet Union and communist China had, or might soon have, powerful brainwashing techniques and witnessed the 70% of 7,190 American Korean War prisoners held in China who made confessions, denounced their country, or signed petitions against the U.S. role in the war, many of whom even held on to their beliefs after they were repatriated to the United States (Marks, 1979; Thomas, 1989). Hence, the CIA was committed to doing whatever it took to learn as much as possible about psychological processes that might facilitate or resist brainwashing and other forms of psychological persuasion.
The Korean War may have given them more of a push/incentive, but they were already long at their dirty business by that time.

It was during World War II that MKULTRA got its start. Wasn't that what Operation Paperclip was all about? It was a program to import and recruit all these Nazi torture experts for their potential contribution to the CIA's mind control database.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2009, 12:56:51 PM »
I find it interesting that Maslow seems to believe that whatever one individual stated about another individual in these sessions he observed at Daytop were the manifestation of honesty and were also reflective of reality.  This is an underlying flaw in the entire concept.  The techniques do induce a break-down of the defences, but there is no reason to assume that the new notions of self being imparted to the subjects reflect reality.  Garbage in, garbage out.
"The people who are doing best are not the people with Ph.D.s and so on; they are the people who have been on the streets and who know what it is all about themselves. They know what they're talking about. They know, for example, when to push hard and when to take it easy."

Who better to compose brand new personalities for young people than folks who learned how dominate others out on the streets?
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Ursus

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2009, 01:07:44 PM »
It was also during World War II that experiments were first conducted as to the efficacy of a therapeutic community model for getting groups to have a desired mindset. This happened at Tavistock, a military psych hospital in the U.K., in 1939 and again in 1942. Experimental subjects were British soldiers hoping to go home on psych leave. Instead, they "convinced" each other, through raps led by military psychologists, to return to the battlefield and to continue fighting the war.

TCs were also used on the American troops, though I have less data on the specifics. It was through these means, however, that TCs were ultimately introduced into the American civilian penal system in the mid-late 1940s. "Positive Peer Culture" is a direct outgrowth of this.
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Offline Awake

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2009, 01:32:01 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote
Agency officials were convinced that the Soviet Union and communist China had, or might soon have, powerful brainwashing techniques and witnessed the 70% of 7,190 American Korean War prisoners held in China who made confessions, denounced their country, or signed petitions against the U.S. role in the war, many of whom even held on to their beliefs after they were repatriated to the United States (Marks, 1979; Thomas, 1989). Hence, the CIA was committed to doing whatever it took to learn as much as possible about psychological processes that might facilitate or resist brainwashing and other forms of psychological persuasion.
The Korean War may have given them more of a push/incentive, but they were already long at their dirty business by that time.

It was during World War II that MKULTRA got its start. Wasn't that what Operation paperclip was all about? Importing and naturalizing all these Nazi torture experts for their potential contribution to the CIA's mind control database...

Yup. You can find much of that history if you research the Tavistock institute in England where many social and behavioral psychologist fled to from Nazi Germany during the collapse. A big figure of which would be Kurt Lewin who studied social relations, personality and attitude change, and father of social psychology. He founded the Tavistock of the U.S., the National Training Labratories, where they studied social and behavioral control and developed Sensitivity Training. Other instititutions followe suit, The Esalen institute who's figurehead was Fritz Perls (another big player in the Human Potential Movement) and he developed Gestalt Therapy based on Lewin's theories. Another is the Mental Research Institute in Palo Alto CA. Through the 60's the Palo Alto group had develped a theory of Schizophrenia and saw that it was the result of disfuctional family systems. They researched how Schizophrenia could be induced in a person by a mother (or important family figure) just as a hypnotist could induce trance. What they discovered led to the formulation of the theory of Cybernetics, the study of machines that rely on feedback frm their environment and what happens when they interract with each other.
Heres some good info

Kurt Lewin, another of those who left Germany as the Nazis consolidated their power, adapted and applied the Gestalt perspective to personality theory and social dynamics and called it "Field Theory." He Translated gestalt ideas into social experience involving people and made them useful in this context.He was a social reformer as well as a psychological theoriest. Widely recognized as the founder of the subdiscipline of social psychology, he was especially interested in the applications of psychology to psychological problems and founded the Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues, Divsion 9 of the American Psychological Association. He was also responsible for the founding of the National Training Laboratories in Bethel Maine, best known for "sensitivity training" for corporate leaders.

 SOME CENTRAL IDEAS:

An interest in intergroup conflict, and in conflict between individual and group wishes.
We always exist in relation to a social context. Gestalt ideas can be applied to understanding our place in our social and environmental situation.
We are culturally taught how to see, look, and act. Changing these is in a real sense changing the perceived culture within which we life.
Change can be carried out in ways that respects and humanizes our opponents as well as ourselves. If carried out in violent, dehumanizing ways, it is self-defeating.

Perls and Gestalt Therapy. Fritz Perls' took Lewin's work on tension systems and made it one of the central concepts of Gestalt Therapy. He called tension systems "unfinished business." A healthy persom will complete most of their life situations while they're involved with them. A less healthy person is likely to move through life dragging this ball and chain of a whole mass of unfinished business. This may relate to unfinished situations from childhood, with a previous partner, etc.--anything the person has left incomplete that at some conscious or unconscious level continues to influence and trouble him or her.

There more in this link.
http://www.sonoma.edu/users/d/daniels/lewinnotes.html
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Offline ajax13

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2009, 01:46:46 PM »
I posted this link before in another forum, but Bernays' involvement with Dulles, head of the CIA and principle in operation Paperclip, is pertinent to the question of gubment involvement in the creation of TTI.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e12642.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2009, 01:08:08 PM »
:bump:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2009, 07:15:45 PM »
It seems to me that mkultra had nothing to do with synanon, but rather, both mkultra and synanon were borne from the same dogma/philosophy/school of thought. i.e. human potential movement.

The government DID research synanon, and that is documented fact. I also recall reading (sorry, dont have source) that the duponts were involved, specifically, bobby. However, I don't feel any of that research went to fund mkultra... rather, it was put into the Seed.

I've read and seen (on youtube) testimony by people who were subjects in the mkultra project, and having been a "subject" myself of a first-gen synanon descendant, (CEDU), there are not nearly enough similarities for one (mkultra) to have spawned from the other (synanon). They do, however, seem to have enough similarities to share an ideal, and there are other programs that may share more similarities, but the fact of the matter is, it doesn't share nearly enough with synanon to be an offspring.

However, compare the Seed with synanon, or cedu, and it seems quite clear that was where *that* government funding went.


Sorry, dudes. I don't buy it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2009, 09:48:03 PM »
Sorry dude, no one claimed MK ULTRA was funded by synanon.  The goal of depatterning as practised by Ewen Cameron as one of dozens of different MK ULTRA experiments was to eliminate and replace the psychological make-up of the subject, with the controller determining the new psychological structure.  Sounds just like TTI.  
You don't have to buy it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2009, 11:26:43 PM »
Quote from: "TAC"
It seems to me that mkultra had nothing to do with synanon, but rather, both mkultra and synanon were borne from the same dogma/philosophy/school of thought. i.e. human potential movement.

The government DID research synanon, and that is documented fact. I also recall reading (sorry, dont have source) that the duponts were involved, specifically, bobby. However, I don't feel any of that research went to fund mkultra... rather, it was put into the Seed.

I've read and seen (on youtube) testimony by people who were subjects in the mkultra project, and having been a "subject" myself of a first-gen synanon descendant, (CEDU), there are not nearly enough similarities for one (mkultra) to have spawned from the other (synanon). They do, however, seem to have enough similarities to share an ideal, and there are other programs that may share more similarities, but the fact of the matter is, it doesn't share nearly enough with synanon to be an offspring.

However, compare the Seed with synanon, or cedu, and it seems quite clear that was where *that* government funding went.


Sorry, dudes. I don't buy it.

How did you manage to get that out of this thread? Synanon is such small potatoes, no one is saying it inspired MK ultra. But The evidence is right there, the same players in Mk-ultra were players in the Human Potential Movement, and that WAS influential in the development of Synanon. If u dont buy it, then 1+1 aint 2. Synanon did nothing more than provide a framework to practice coercive tactics without having to adhere to any of the ethics that licensed therapist have to.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: mk ultra
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2009, 05:59:37 AM »
Quote from: "awakw"
Quote from: "TAC"
It seems to me that mkultra had nothing to do with synanon, but rather, both mkultra and synanon were borne from the same dogma/philosophy/school of thought. i.e. human potential movement.

The government DID research synanon, and that is documented fact. I also recall reading (sorry, dont have source) that the duponts were involved, specifically, bobby. However, I don't feel any of that research went to fund mkultra... rather, it was put into the Seed.

I've read and seen (on youtube) testimony by people who were subjects in the mkultra project, and having been a "subject" myself of a first-gen synanon descendant, (CEDU), there are not nearly enough similarities for one (mkultra) to have spawned from the other (synanon). They do, however, seem to have enough similarities to share an ideal, and there are other programs that may share more similarities, but the fact of the matter is, it doesn't share nearly enough with synanon to be an offspring.

However, compare the Seed with synanon, or cedu, and it seems quite clear that was where *that* government funding went.


Sorry, dudes. I don't buy it.

How did you manage to get that out of this thread? Synanon is such small potatoes, no one is saying it inspired MK ultra. But The evidence is right there, the same players in Mk-ultra were players in the Human Potential Movement, and that WAS influential in the development of Synanon. If u dont buy it, then 1+1 aint 2. Synanon did nothing more than provide a framework to practice coercive tactics without having to adhere to any of the ethics that licensed therapist have to.


Sorry, must have confused it with one of the other four thousand conspiracy theory black ops conversations I've had with other survivors. No, I'm serious. I can't keep track any more.

however, still not buying it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »