WWASPS/High Impact

[Carey]

Deborah, isn't that what you are doing on this forum, debating?  Excuse me for not debating the topic of your choice.

You know, Ryan can do what ever he so wishes.  If he wants to jump in and explain what in the hell he has meant by a "bribe" or "ransom" he is free to do so.  Don't think for a minute he is not reading what is being posted here on this site.  You would only be kidding yourself, if you do.

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-08-22 12:39 ]

[Anonymous]

Carey,  

Your information about lead plaintiff is inaccurate. Non of your business either.

My facts came form the horses mouth.

Your jealousy of Sue is boring. The horse has died quit beating it.

[Anonymous]

To the anonymous with the facts straight from the horse's mouth ....

Obviously you have your facts confused with some major B.S. that came out of the mouth of a donkey's ass.

 :smokin:

[Deborah]

Carey,
THIS debate is going nowhere and it doesn't appear that there will ever be a resolution. No new information is presented, no "proof" (is that possible?), and most importantly, no first-hand information from the horse's mouth. Just the same tired comments and imaginings repeated, ad nauseum.

The "debate" consists of you and your advarsaries calling each other liars. That's not a debate- in fact it's an arguement, a fued, a conflict, with no end in sight.

Personally, I don't care if the argument wages on forever- but out of common curteousy for others here, might you and your advarsaries consider containing the argument to its own thread titled "The ongoing Carey/Pure/Ryan/Karen? Argument". The rest of us could check in every month or two to see if anything pertinent has been posted.

Have you considered building your own website or creating your own forum? Would you allow your advarsaries to post there? Or would the lack of a public audience diminish the enthusiam, for both sides?

If you're trying to educate the public, it's not working well, in my opinion. Half the comments from both sides, make no sense to the general public, whom are not privy to the history of this fued.

You Pure folks- I resent you for banning Carey, then following her here, taking up space on someone else's server to continue the arguement.

And, I ask you with all sincerity-
Do you think you're ever going to "prove" that Ryan is lying?
What will have to occur for you to feel satisfied, resolved?
And, is there a liklihood of that ever happening?

You make the comment, "Don't think for a minute he is not reading what is being posted here on this site. You would only be kidding yourself, if you do."

Don't kid yourself. I could not care less if Ryan is reading here and not posting. It just doesn't matter to me, or alot of other people. And I can't imagine why you feel that should be important to me.

And so, if he was? What would that imply? Is he secretly gathering information? Is he a spy? If so, for who? Don't assume that I and others can read between the vague lines you provide. Stop hem-hawing and spit things out, don't attempt to give information to the public in the form of questions. Questions that lead to dead ends for most of us. The only people who might have an inkling about what you're inferring is you, and a handful of other people.

It's like this: I come on this board and I say Joe Scum is a dirt bag. I can't really expose all I know. I'll throw out questions every now and then- that the majority reading could not follow to any meaningful conclusion. But for the most part, I just want you to take my word. He's a liar and a sensationalist, and he's been manipulated by some evil people.
Does this make any sense to you at all?

Is your story, in its entirity, start to finish, including all your interactions with the different entities and personalities, posted in ONE place anywhere? If it is, you might consider adding the link to your signature. It could be helpful to those who attempt to understand.

Deborah

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 17:12 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2003-08-22 18:34:00, KarenZ wrote:

"Deb writes:

"The ongoing Carey/Pure/Ryan/Karen? Argument".



Please leave me out of this.

I am trying so very hard not to engage in any more of this; because your right, and I know it,  and I want nothing more to do with it."

This coming from the person who initiated the smear campaign against Carey in retaliation for her anti-pure statements.  What's wrong Karen Z., finally had enough of your own crap??!!

[Anonymous]

Deborah,

When you start talking about things that do not interest me, I do not jump in and ask you to take your conversation somewhere else, as I am not interested in hearing it.  Ex.  the conversation on Mormons and abuse.  I think that is far fetched and a very racist way of looking at the problem however, you and others seem to want to discuss, debate, whatever else you may want to call it. Discuss it to your hearts content.  You want to talk about it and others seem to want to join in. No problem, So be it, go ahead.  I am not interested, therefore I have nothing to add or take away from your converstation.  And you know what, I am not going to tell you to take your conversation somewhere else.  Start your own thread about you and your obsession with Mormons as I find it confusing and boring.

Stop hem-hawing and spit things out, don't attempt to give information to the public in the form of questions. Questions that lead to dead ends for most of us. The only people who might have an inkling about what you're inferring is you, and a handful of other people.

Exactly what don't you understand about anything I have said?  You know exactly what I am talking about when I address topics such as Ryan, PURE etc.  You may not have an interest and that is fine...DON'T READ IT.  My feelings won't be hurt.  

I ask questions for two reasons.  One, because I don't have all of the answers. Two, because sometimes I think others need to be challenged to think for themselves.  I am not here to just state a fact as I may know it and expect programed parents to believe me, just because I said so.

I really do not care if you do not want to hear what I have to say.  If you are looking for a place where everyone is on the same page then join the BBS or join PURE's listserv.  This is an open forum and you can choose to write what you want to write and read what you want to read.  This holds true for both you and me.

[Carey]

Deborah that was from me.

One more thing, when did I ever say Ryan was a liar?  Never.  I don't know whether or not the kid is telling the truth.  I don't claim to know that.  I am just giving people something to think about.  Why is that so threatning to everyone?

[Carey]

Yes Karen, you better stay out of it, you don't want to end up putting your foot in your mouth again.

[Deborah]

***This coming from the person who initiated the smear campaign against Carey in retaliation for her anti-pure statements. What's wrong Karen Z., finally had enough of your own crap??!!

Perfect example. Can you provide a link where others might read about the smear campaign? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Hell, we don't even know who you are. Why would we?

[Anonymous]

I haven't been reading this site or following this thread closely...I have don't have much time or patience for the on-going saga of the teen-help section of Antigen's larger site.  I am not privy or informed on Ryan's experiences.  But I'll tell you this, the shit that I personally endured and witnessed at Straight, Inc in the 1970's was far above most things people could even believe.  When I tell people things like seeing an an 11 year old boy hog tied and hoisted upside down.  And witnessesing staff call out kids from the group to smack him with a broom.  While it didn't appear that he was getting hit terribly hard, the terror on that childs face is something I will never forget.  So if a survivor tells me that they saw this or say that this happended to him or her, I believe 'em.  Guess its one of those, you had to be there things.

[MORSEGLASS]

i think it wwasp people trying to get others to keep posting diverting the real subject, now that im posting i wanted to say i think that ryan is doing a great job!! keep up the great work!! you are headed in the right direction!! you do what ever you have to make things right and get a head in life!!!! to all the anons  would you be happier if he turned out to be a junkie going nowhere??  i dont think he would be a topic if this were the case!!! wwaspies only want to belittle someone who had a bad memory of wwasp! and is doing everything to make sure people see them  for what they are! my postion is against wwasp not pure, carey ryan, karen, or sue. i feel they have frauded, manipulated, and flat ass lied to me!!(for real) if you anon people would sit down and simply ask your children, what did you eat?  (show them the menu) ask them did you hear screaming coming from O.P?(most didnt see) were you able to talk to the government? did you get your meds? did you ever get sick while in the program? why? was it the water? was someone ever treated badly? (not talking about the child themselves) did you have soap , shampoo and laundry soap, (everyday)? did you ever sleep on the floor? did you see a doctor when you were sick? (if a girl) did you have regular periods?( alot of girls didnt) this list goes on and on let me know if you want more questions to ask,   if you the program parent simply asks were you abused most of the long time student say no,( my own thoughts)  they think they deserve what they got!!!

[Deborah]

**Start your own thread about you and your obsession with Mormons as I find it confusing and boring.

Carey,
Do you know what a thread is? I did start my own thread for that discussion... and I can assure you that it won't be seeping into every other thread that is posted here. Get the point?

I'm certainly not obsessed with mormons. It was a discussion. Not an ongoing arguement between a handful of new people here. I'm not sure why it was confusing for you but I certainly can imagine that it was boring, it didn't contain anything about Pure or Ryan. And there was not an opening for you to engage in another repetitive arguement with your foes in that thread. Might you have been the anon who suggested it was racists? Better go to the dictionary.

**You know exactly what I am talking about when I address topics such as Ryan, PURE etc.

And that is not the issue Carey. WHEN your post contains information, they can be useful. When you post things like, "Yes Karen, you better stay out of it, you don't want to end up putting your foot in your mouth again." The later is the most common. How is that useful to anyone? How does that "challenge others to think for themselves"?

You have, at the very least, implied, alluded to, or beat around the bush to say that Ryan is a liar. I didn't have to look far. This thread contains one, "Well if that is the case, then he can be pressured into making false statements too, don't you think?"
Hmmm. Sounds like you're calling him a liar to me. Have I misunderstood yet another of your indirect communications? Making false statements=liar. Or is this one of your questions posed "to make people think"? To make people think he's a liar?

**This is an open forum and you can choose to write what you want to write and read what you want to read. This holds true for both you and me.

That's right Carey, this is an open, PUBLIC forum. You came here, followed by a group of people who were angry at you, and engaged in an ongoing arguement with them, that did not involve the PUBLIC. You/they moved the arguement here and have dominated this board for sometime now with a PRIVATE arguement- the PUBLIC is not privy to the history. It's not a PUBLIC debate or discussion, but an arguement between a handful of people and it seeps into the majority of the posts. That is the point, which I think was missed.
Deborah

[Carey]

Deborah,

This thread and every other thread that I have posted under has to do with WWASP.  Everything thing I have said has to do with WWASP.  I know your knowledge of WWASP is limited as you have no personal experience with them at all.  The only thing you know about WWASP is what you read. I hate to burst your bubble, but not everything you read is accuarate.  Don't put words in my mouth, I am not saying this person lied or this person did not lie, but I know personally that not everything that you have read about this topic is accurate.   When I talk about PURE, Karen, Ryan and his movie, it is totally relevant to the topic.  You just don't know how relevant.  They do.  That is why it is such a thorn in their side.  Maybe you should stay on threads that apply to that which you do have first hand knowledge of.  Then maybe you won't try and decide what is important and what is worthy of conversation on this subject matter, a subject matter that some have experienced first hand.

"Well if that is the case, then he can be pressured into making false statements too, don't you think?"

Do not put words in my mouth.  I did not call him a liar.  If you draw that conclusion from what I have said, then maybe the fear for you is that others may draw that same conculsion.  If they do, well, that is not what I said.

[Anonymous]

I do not think you are understanding what I'm saying. For what it's worth, here's one more try.

This thread was on the topic of whether or not there was a connection between WWASP and High Impact.
Some anon person unfortunately asked:
Is the same program where the parents of Ryan F, (Coldwater, The Movie) were allegedly forced to pay a $60,000 bribe as a condition for removing their child from the program?

And the door opened. We are back to the endless discussion about Ryan, the class action, who the "lead" plantiff(s) are.....I fail to see how this was relevant the topic of the thread?

As for never calling Ryan a liar:

"It seems to all be a farce...Ryan's story, that is. Fiction...based on fact, how does that make any sense? Kinda seems like an oxymoron to me."

"Oh, I get it, that is part of the fiction that he is attesting to. ?? We are all just going to have to try and figure out when he is telling the truth and when he is not."

"If Ryan calls it a bribe, as he has on his website, then turns around and says it really was not a bribe, but tuition paid in full for the one year contract that his parents signed, then he is changing his own words to fit that of someone elses."
And that's just in this one thread.
***********

Carey, it is so plainly obvious, here's a question for you- Do you think the rest of us here (Pure and Public) do not interpret those comments to mean that you think Ryan is lying? The least you could do is be honest.

**When I talk about PURE, Karen, Ryan and his movie, it is totally relevant to the topic. You just don't know how relevant. They do.

THIS IS THE FUCKING POINT. NO, I don't know how relevant this is because you have not provided anything that might give an indication of the relevance.
And, "they do". Fuck they. Send them a message. The rest of us are wondering what the fuck point you are trying to make.
What are you alleging? Why is it relevant to them? That's what the PUBLIC wants to know. Your questions to your enemy are not helping the PUBLIC, the majority here, understand one bit.

Do you know who your audience is? It is not solely Pure supporters who know the inside skinny. That has been stated a number of times, yet you continue to direct your comments to the handful of Pure people who might be posting under anon. You'd probably get a lot less flack if you'd speak to the PUBLIC and not your advarsaries.. and stay on topic for the thread, rather, stop diverting every thread to the topic of your choice... Ryan, the movie, Pure, the class action.  Is that any clearer? Does/will it make a difference?

Deborah