Author Topic: Talk to the Feds about your experience  (Read 5329 times)

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Offline Tengu

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Talk to the Feds about your experience
« on: April 03, 2009, 11:01:45 PM »
Hello all,

Some of you may remember research that I provided for public critique back at the beginning of February. I have since done further research, and have found rather intriguing points of law that may apply.

In addition, I have now talked with federal authorities (FBI) who may be interested in being our enforcement on the matter. As you might recall, that was the biggest problem with the research I provided – a lot of it was impossible or, at the very least, extremely difficult to enforce. Regardless, the FBI is now interested.

What I need now is corroborating support: people who are willing to talk to federal officials about what they endured and/or witnessed. The key thing here is this: we need to keep to the facts. We need to let the facts speak, and not “bash” any facility or program (regardless of however much they deserve it). So again, stick to the facts of the situation.

If you’re willing to talk to the Feds on this matter, please email me at thunderhawk255@yahoo.com with:
1)    Your full name,
2)   Facility/program you attended,
3)   Dates when you were at the facility,
4)   Any position of authority you hold with any anti-gulag organization,
5)   Any psychological disorder (i.e. PTSD) that has been medically diagnosed and deemed to be caused by time spent in the program/facility (if you do not want to provide this, I understand),
6)   Email address,
7)   Your day-time phone number.

If you were the victim of a “teen escort” service, please provide that information as well. Make the subject of the email “WITNESS” (all caps, no quotations) so that I do not accidentally trash your email.

Folks, I cannot promise you that this will not fall through, but we do have a significant chance here to Nagasaki the industry. I have the hard evidence already compiled and contact is secure with the officials, but I am going to need supporting witnesses in order to make this go through.

I cannot overstate the value of corroborating witnesses/victims here. There’s a big difference between handing an agent all the evidence and saying “here’s your case. Call me if you have problems” and handing them the evidence plus a nice long list of people who they can talk to who in turn can back up everything I just handed them. Corroborating eyewitnesses completely change the game and lend strength to the evidence that it otherwise would not have had (and, further, can provide the grounds for pressing specific charges, etc). The case shifts from being a case of intelligence brought by one single person who may not know what they’re talking about to a case where everything can be validated by firsthand eyewitnesses – the dynamic of the public/investigator interaction is completely shifted.

We have a very good chance here to make some great progress (but again, no promises). If you want to be a part of it, all it takes is a simple email and a possible conversation with a federal agent. That’s it. So please, shoot me a quick email. There is no such thing as too many witnesses here.

Please note that I also need “expert witnesses” to refer the FBI to – ex. someone who’s studied the industry and has published a book on the problems, have a “Dr.” in front of their name, etc. If you have someone like this in mind, please send them my information and encourage them to get in touch with me (as I will NOT give the FBI a person’s contact information without that person’s expressed consent to do so).

Best regards to all,
Adam Zarnowski
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 10:24:52 AM »
Needs more Phil Elberg (attorney), if the feds haven't talked to him yet.

Tengu, you have an account with three posts, asking people to send their personal information to an @yahoo.com email address, on a board notable for its high troll count. You might want to rethink that strategy.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 10:38:22 AM »
Come on, lay off Adam. Perhaps he is the savior we have all been waiting for. Lead us to the promised land Adam, a world without programs!
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 10:53:51 AM »
Yup Adam zarnowski is definitely a troll.

someone doing a serious investigation would not ask question 4 or 5. only a troll working the industry would want that info. the fbi would ask different questions.

Furthermore, if adam really is in touch with the FBI, asking question 4 indicates that he is still on the other side. the FBI is no doubt investigation this site. keep that in mind my fellow forni.

adam, if your not a troll do this:
talk to your fbi agent and have a secure .gov or .fbi email adress set up to receive strictly witness information on this case. have an agent come on here and give out his contact information so i can call him myself (annon first) and ascertain that this is not a set up. then i'll send my information to a .gov address. not yahoo.

do you really expect a "real" witness who is willing to actually show up to court anywhere in the country to send out their information to a yahoo account to someone they dont know? phulease.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Tengu

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 11:33:03 AM »
Fine. I have no problem with directing the agent to here when I submit my data to him.

However, I would ask that you take a look at my "other 2 posts" - actually, you needn't see the second one as it was a simple reply about a YouTube video. So look at the first one before calling me a troll. A troll would not have spent nearly 3 months compiling research that intricately detailed to submit for review by people on this forum (and other survivor groups) before acting on it's findings. So please, reconsider my motivations.

I also understand your concerns - I can also see why question four would raise flags (five I'm a little perplexed over, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one). Yes, I have a Yahoo account and I'm having data sent there. I also have a Suddenlink account that I don't use - would that be any better? The only person who's seeing or is going to see the data that I've asked for is 1) me and 2) any federal agents who get involved with this case. Everything gets trashed and deleted after I've put it into my summary to the FBI. But if you are certain you do not want to send it to me then, as I said before, I can get the FBI to come on this site or provide me with an .gov address to send data to after I've submitted the evidence.

Folks, I'm not the enemy here - I'm trying to help.

Also, I'm not with the FBI. I am not a federal agent. The data I'm asking for is to reinforce my hard evidence that the FBI is interested in seeing and possibly pursuing - reread my above post if you need to before telling me what kind of questions I should be asking.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 11:42:19 AM by Tengu »

Offline Antigen

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 11:41:03 AM »
You may want to ask your FBI contact to reference the Government Accountability Office (FKA Government Accounting Office) Committee on Education and Labour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmGgH11Dmk
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Offline Tengu

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 11:56:18 AM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
You may want to ask your FBI contact to reference the Government Accountability Office (FKA Government Accounting Office) Committee on Education and Labour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmGgH11Dmk

I have one important segment from the Oct. 2007 hearing that illustrates a portion of the legal avenues I'm pursuing, but the GAO report completely slipped my mind... thank God I haven't sent anything substantial in just yet.

Thank you for the link - I'll add that in ASAP. That can go a long ways towards credibility of the evidence and showing the scope of the problem.

Folks, if you see something that you think could help, please provide it. I'm not discussing what legal angles I'm using to go after the bad guys, but if 1 out of 100 (exaggerated figures, but you get the point) suggestions can improve my case, I want it.
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 12:14:01 PM »
Come to think of it, you can even tell the FBI guy to reference their own organization.

Quote from: "Wes"
35. The FBI investigated Straight in 1993 for insurance fraud. There have been no indictments to date. Contact FBI Special Agent Charlotte Brazil, St Petersburg, Fl.
http://thestraights.com/the-straights/k ... buses2.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Tengu

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 03:04:03 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Come to think of it, you can even tell the FBI guy to reference their own organization.

Quote from: "Wes"
35. The FBI investigated Straight in 1993 for insurance fraud. There have been no indictments to date. Contact FBI Special Agent Charlotte Brazil, St Petersburg, Fl.
http://thestraights.com/the-straights/k ... buses2.htm

Thanks for the suggestion; however, I prefer not to comment on this issue at this time.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2009, 07:19:41 PM »
Tengu, i have an idea:

 start a blog where people can submit their testimony minus their names, after signing an agreement that they submit them under penalty of perjury. Then when the feds get interested we can foward our names and dates to the fed agent interested.

That would be something most people would be willing to submit their expereinces on, i would
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 08:23:57 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Tengu, i have an idea:

 start a blog where people can submit their testimony minus their names, after signing an agreement that they submit them under penalty of perjury. Then when the feds get interested we can foward our names and dates to the fed agent interested.

That would be something most people would be willing to submit their expereinces on, i would


oh yes, that blurb we sign should include the stipulation  that we are willing to testify to our experiences in  court  and to investigators.

I'm pretty sure youre genuine, but the people behind these cults are sociopaths and pretending to be a decent, caring person to get our names to head off lawsuits is certainly not beneath them, they do torture and murder young people by the 10s of thousands.


If you like, add your general address (state) and phone #, so people can see you really exist. You dont have to worry about crank calls. People's full names and telephone #s, including those of a group of wwasp refferrers, have been posted and no one has ever had problems--except maybe miller newton
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Offline Tengu

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 10:23:11 PM »
Quote
start a blog where people can submit their testimony minus their names, after signing an agreement that they submit them under penalty of perjury.

That’s a GREAT idea. I’ll get it all setup in the morning (I’m dead beat tonight) and post the link here ASAP.

However, if someone here wants to take the initiative and set one up (with a blurb reading, word for word, “I agree that the information I am providing here as testimony is true to the best of my knowledge and agree that I submit them under penalty of perjury. I am willing to testify to investigators and in courts of law as to that which I have submitted.”) on their own tonight I would have no objections whatsoever – just provide me the link here and I can pass it along to the Feds when I turn everything in. I don't know how anyone can actually sign the agreement, but... the blurb should be binding enough to stick.

Quote
I'm pretty sure youre genuine, but the people behind these cults are sociopaths and pretending to be a decent, caring person to get our names to head off lawsuits is certainly not beneath them, they do torture and murder young people by the 10s of thousands.

I understand everyone's concern on this matter completely – someone who can torture children and teens for fun and profit can certainly present a fake identity online without a flinch.

Quote
People's full names and telephone #s, including those of a group of wwasp refferrers, have been posted and no one has ever had problems--except maybe miller newton

I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading the thread with Newton’s phone number in it.

I live in San Angelo, Texas. I’m formerly a Director of NYRA and my posts can be read on the NYRA forums (same screen name: Tengu). Although I started out in NYRA, I prefer to think of myself as “freelance” now, and not associated with any group or organization (no bad blood, I just operate better and accomplish more this way).

I am hesitant to post my phone number publicly, but you can email me or message me over the forums to request it and I’ll happily oblige (as it would be rather hypocritical for me to ask everyone else to send me their number to forward to the Feds while I keep mine clandestine from everyone).  

-AZ
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 12:00:57 PM »
I'm not sure you can say "under penalty of perjury" here because the writer is not under oath. Not sure why you'd want to, either, as they will be placed under oath if/when interviewed by investigators. Here's how Arnold Trebach asked us to do it. Write up your story in affidavit form, have several copies notarized and then file them with each tier of authority; local DAs (both local to the program and one to the DA in your jurisdiction of residence), state(s) (same) and Federal. But even if you're not ready to do this, still post the story on the blog.

I also think you should  provide several options wrt willingness to testify under oath; Yes, no, possibly. This way you get the stories out and make contact with the writers but without requiring a serious commitment up front.
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Offline Tengu

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 12:57:21 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
I'm not sure you can say "under penalty of perjury" here because the writer is not under oath. Not sure why you'd want to, either, as they will be placed under oath if/when interviewed by investigators. Here's how Arnold Trebach asked us to do it. Write up your story in affidavit form, have several copies notarized and then file them with each tier of authority; local DAs (both local to the program and one to the DA in your jurisdiction of residence), state(s) (same) and Federal. But even if you're not ready to do this, still post the story on the blog.

I also think you should  provide several options wrt willingness to testify under oath; Yes, no, possibly. This way you get the stories out and make contact with the writers but without requiring a serious commitment up front.

Everything Antigen just said is the way to go in my opinion. A blog and affidavits (if you’re willing to provide one) would settle everything here. Follow what he said here – it allocates for everything.

Now this part is a bit… humiliating. I have tried to set up the blog we were discussing, but I’m having a little trouble getting it to match the parameters we wanted to include. I’m far from a blog expert – I’ve only set one up to where it’s fully functional (the one where I published my research) and so I am bowing out at this point in regard to the blog due to sheer frustration.

However, this may be for the best. It probably should be operated by survivors only for survivors – this would, in my estimation, increase its value further down the line when I provide the link to the FBI. If it is not too much to ask, I’d appreciate being provided a link when someone sets it up.

Also, please note that I will no longer accept the requested emailed information in my first post in this thread after 24 hours of this post. This is due to the possibility of industry members posing as survivors in order to tell the feds how absolutely astounding their program was. After the 24-hour mark, I ask that you set up the blog as Antigen suggested, post there and/or file affidavits unless I can otherwise verify your identity somehow.

Sorry folks, but this was the plan long before I posted or sent out anything.

I hope everyone will understand now why I understood your concerns over my motivations/loyalties – we’re all looking over our shoulders for fear of the same thing.

-AZ
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Talk to the Feds about your experience
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 01:12:40 PM »
Quote from: "Tengu"
However, this may be for the best. It probably should be operated by survivors only for survivors – this would, in my estimation, increase its value further down the line when I provide the link to the FBI. I

You can set it up, i dont really care if its operated by a survior or not. I doubt anyone cares either :)


But, if u can't figure out how to do it...maybe Antigen, you could set up a forum, here, for it, where submissions need your "approval" (weed out trolls)?
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