Talk to the Feds about your experience

[Anonymous]

Great. Why not set up a moderated forum on this board for that?

We have one: Facilities Questions and answers

That's a general question and answer forum.

Set up a forum that let's people know that it is where posters, who are interested, can give a run-down of their experience and stipulate that they willing to  talk to people at a govt agency about it.

I'm not sure a forum format would be appropriate for what you're suggesting (but the final decision is up to Ginger).  Probably the best option for somebody wanting to tell their story on the record is to submit a sworn statement to ISACcorp.  From there, ISAC can act as an intermediary if a person wants to get in contact with the authorities...  For example, if I went to TBS A, I write out my experience as a sworn statement, submit it to isaccorp and let them know i'd be willing to speak to the authorities if they are contacted about the statement (of they can ask me if they are contacted).   ISACcorp generally publishes statements anonymously, but since they're sworn statements, they do keep signed copies on file.

Regardless of the approach, the problem your going to run into is taht although people are sometimes willing to tell their story publicly, they're far less likely to want to get into an open battle with a school by contacting the authorities (asking somebody to tell their story anonymously is difficult as it is, but it's still far easier than asking a person to go on public record and testify in court in front of those who hurt them).  Many just want to move on and try to forget.  Few believe that if they go to the authorities anything will get done anyway (and sometimes they're right)...  There are many factors here.  Maybe if somebody came forward and had sucess with the authorities things might be different, but the general trust in authority of ex-program participants tends to be very low (and with good reason).  If it's one thing program taught me, is how might does not make right, how power corrupts, and how those in authoritiy often shouldn't be.  I can't say I have much faith in the state, and studying the history of programs has only reinforced this view (I feel media, and speaking out does the most).  If you think the state is the best way to go, however, CAFETY would be a good start.

What are you talking about? This guy says he has the Feds interested in helping survivors press charges against criminals, and whatever else they're interested in.
This opprotunity shouldnt be used as a channel for anyone to push their philosophical theories about “the state.”

Maybe some people aren’t willing to talk to the Feds. So what? Some people are.

Why not have forum HERE so that can be facilitated?

If  its just going ot be ISAC put a sticky up so people know about it at least.

[psy]

You are definitely flexing your right wing extremist muscles tonight.  :eek:

Right wing and left wing are oversimplifications.  There are more than two modes of political/social/philosophical thought.

[psy]

What are you talking about? This guy says he has the Feds interested in helping survivors press charges against criminals, and whatever else they're interested in.
This opprotunity shouldnt be used as a channel for anyone to push their philosophical theories about “the state.”

IN no way am I saying people shouldn't be prosecuted for their crimes.  Alls i'm saying is that there are organizations already dedicated to the purpose, and creating a separate forum here would be redundant.  Ginger will probably be willing if there is enough support (it would be unreasonable to create a forum for everybody who asked... it would flood the main page, which is stuffed as it is.)... but you'll probably have to come up with a solid rationale...  a reason why something is needed and what it can provide that nobody else currently does.  What, exactly, did you want the purpose of this new forum to be?  How would it be organized, how would it work?  Would each thread be per-testimony or per-program.  Would people provide contact information or would the feds contact people through PMs or emails (probably preferable).  Ultimately the decision is up to Ginger, and not me.  She's said in the past, though, that she'll create a forum for anybody who wants it

Maybe some people aren’t willing to talk to the Feds. So what? Some people are.

And currently there are ways of doing that... the simplest being to call up the FBI or contact the OP to get in touch with the investigating agent (who should also be aware of agents provocateurs who I guarantee would likely try to contact the feds as "survivors" and act purposefully crazy to detract from the reality of the situation...)

Why not have forum HERE so that can be facilitated?

If  its just going ot be ISAC put a sticky up so people know about it at least.

Well.  You have to understand that Fornits isn't an organization per-se, but rather an open forum where people can hang out and talk about stuff that would likely be censored elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

O.K. So what's the next step? Tengu, the admin doesn't seem interested in hosting a forum here. How would you like people to proceed from this point?

[Ursus]

You can have Psy move this thread over to FQA -- which is moderated -- if you want... The CAN forum might seem appropriate save for the issue of Guest posts getting stuck in limbo; that is, until a Moderator gets around to approving them.

If you have a forum with not enough activity, it tends to discourage posting to some degree. I think your best bet is to be in a forum with some activity, but not as much as TTI (so your thread(s) will tend to stay on the first page). Just my 43¢, FWIW...

—•?•0•?•—

I have a question for the Feds about what kind of statutes of limitation we are dealing with here. How recently must the abuse have occurred? I guess it would depend on the crime, eh? Although some might call crimes of this nature against children to be "crimes against humanity," to which there are no statutes of limitation, if I recall correctly...

[try another castle]

I'm rarely one to don the tin hat, but in this case, if the feds are truly interested in hearing this stuff, I would sure as golly cunt like to know why, because that, I feel, is certainly relevant. Feds are NOT people I trust, and I never will.

p.s. I didnt read this whole thread because I am lazy, so sorry if this has already been addressed.

[psy]

O.K. So what's the next step? Tengu, the admin doesn't seem interested in hosting a forum here. How would you like people to proceed from this point?

That's not what I said.  I also said the final say was up to ginger.  All I asked for was a bit more justification.  If the same thing is provided elsewhere, doing it here would be redundant.

Look.  There are already hundreds on thousands of survivor stories on this board, but they're hard to find because this is a forum format.  I can see the same thing happening on a new subforum if there aren't some constraints in place.  If you have a solid plan on how the board would be run, what would be the rules, etc, then let's hear it.

[Anonymous]

O.K. So what's the next step? Tengu, the admin doesn't seem interested in hosting a forum here. How would you like people to proceed from this point?

That's not what I said.  I also said the final say was up to ginger.  All I asked for was a bit more justification.  If the same thing is provided elsewhere, doing it here would be redundant.

Look.  There are already hundreds on thousands of survivor stories on this board, but they're hard to find because this is a forum format.  I can see the same thing happening on a new subforum if there aren't some constraints in place.  If you have a solid plan on how the board would be run, what would be the rules, etc, then let's hear it.

Yes, yes, my friend.

I just wanted to get some feedbacl from Tengu about the technical issues you raised and what he thinks is the next step should be, with these considerations in mind, since this is something he's initiating. I think a sticky thread on the top of the TT industry might be worth a try.


i wasn't trying to make you out to be a tyrant. You made relevent  points about the problems of having a new forum just for this. Trolls will be a concern, (though considering its quite dangerous to "troll" the FBI, hopefully they'll stay out of this.)

[psy]

It's just that I can't make a new forum for everybody who asked or the front page would get too cluttered (it's pretty bad as it is).  I'd also hate to set up a forum and then not have it used.  The FBI also might have some constraints on how they want this done.  If they want people to just contact them directly and no agents will check the forum, then there is really no point...  but that's up to them.

[BuzzKill]

I thought I'd toss this out for chewing over: the forum is public.  Since when do you want the product of a criminal investigation public? Might it not be better to have testimony provided in a private fashion? If the FBI wants to read Fornits they certainly can - but I can't see random and largely anonymous postings being useable evidence in a court of law. Maybe I am wrong. And maybe they just need to show there is a reasonable suspicion of abuse and fraud to justify doing an investigation - and the forum could help a lot with that.  But look- kid - why not have people who want to provide testimony write you up an account, have it notarized as an affirmation and send it to you - or maybe ISAC if they are able to take on the job - Or, have people contact you and you can then forward their contact info to the interested agent - who can follow up when they are able.  ISAC already has a declaration page up. That might be a good way to go about gathering statments for the investigation; and they no doubt have years worth of statements already on file.  Have you contacted ISAC?

I have a lot of statements that might be of interest - but in many cases I am no longer in contact with the authors. Still, if they would be of interest PM me - or email. Email is better. Actually, I once spoke with an FBI agent. If you have one who'd like to look at that case file get us in touch and I'll tell him the agents name and what office the file is in.

[Tengu]

I was actually just getting on here to say that I think sending everything to ISAC is the way to go. This makes far more sense than anything that I can think of. We just need to compile testimony so we are ready to hand it over at a moment’s notice in the future.

In addition, I need to make one urgent point clear, as I was kicking myself all day yesterday in the car for not having said it in my “update” post: I am no longer in the “need to know” circle of this; it’s no longer my game. The FBI and the DoJ have the ball, and I will, if this goes the way it did last time, most likely not be told anything more than what I already know until I hear about it in the news. The data has left the San Angelo office for investigative purposes, and so I am left with what I have been told and the picture that that knowledge paints.

I can forward information on to the FBI and direct people in the right direction, but there is absolutely no information flow in the other direction. It’s a one-way street, just as it should be.

And, essentially, you’re all as capable of getting testimony/sworn affidavits to the FBI as I am at this point. It’s no longer a lone wolf operation as the lone wolf has no greater “need to know” than anyone else.

So again, it’s no longer my carefully-planned, carefully-executed ballgame. That part’s over. The people with the guns and badges have the ball.

I feel I must also state that the individuals I spoke with at the DoJ seemed to know a lot about these places, and as such, probably know about their distraction methods and “agent provocateurs”. Moreover, the industry doesn’t even know precisely where to go to hamper investigations as I built a figurative dam on the information flow when it comes to public knowledge from day 1. Even the people who helped me with this don’t know the full story. The people who do know work for federal investigative agencies or are the person who is typing this. This was all carefully planned and orchestrated.

Besides, toying with the investigation at this time constitutes interfering with a federal investigation and/or lying to federal officials. In all honesty, I hope that the industry does attempt to mess with things so we get guaranteed arrests

[Anonymous]

I was actually just getting on here to say that I think sending everything to ISAC is the way to go. This makes far more sense than anything that I can think of. We just need to compile testimony so we are ready to hand it over at a moment’s notice in the future.

In addition, I need to make one urgent point clear, as I was kicking myself all day yesterday in the car for not having said it in my “update” post: I am no longer in the “need to know” circle of this; it’s no longer my game. The FBI and the DoJ have the ball, and I will, if this goes the way it did last time, most likely not be told anything more than what I already know until I hear about it in the news. The data has left the San Angelo office for investigative purposes, and so I am left with what I have been told and the picture that that knowledge paints.

I can forward information on to the FBI and direct people in the right direction, but there is absolutely no information flow in the other direction. It’s a one-way street, just as it should be.

And, essentially, you’re all as capable of getting testimony/sworn affidavits to the FBI as I am at this point. It’s no longer a lone wolf operation as the lone wolf has no greater “need to know” than anyone else.

So again, it’s no longer my carefully-planned, carefully-executed ballgame. That part’s over. The people with the guns and badges have the ball.

I feel I must also state that the individuals I spoke with at the DoJ seemed to know a lot about these places, and as such, probably know about their distraction methods and “agent provocateurs”. Moreover, the industry doesn’t even know precisely where to go to hamper investigations as I built a figurative dam on the information flow when it comes to public knowledge from day 1. Even the people who helped me with this don’t know the full story. The people who do know work for federal investigative agencies or are the person who is typing this. This was all carefully planned and orchestrated.

Besides, toying with the investigation at this time constitutes interfering with a federal investigation and/or lying to federal officials. In all honesty, I hope that the industry does attempt to mess with things so we get guaranteed arrests

thank you adom. Amazing to me that anyone is as decent as you. So, i send my testimony over to ISAC, then?

[Che Gookin]

O.K. So what's the next step? Tengu, the admin doesn't seem interested in hosting a forum here. How would you like people to proceed from this point?

That's not what I said.  I also said the final say was up to ginger.  All I asked for was a bit more justification.  If the same thing is provided elsewhere, doing it here would be redundant.

Look.  There are already hundreds on thousands of survivor stories on this board, but they're hard to find because this is a forum format.  I can see the same thing happening on a new subforum if there aren't some constraints in place.  If you have a solid plan on how the board would be run, what would be the rules, etc, then let's hear it.

Tell ginger to make a subforum on the FQA forum and I'll keep an eye on it myself, but I'll need my mod privelages back for the FQA.

[Che Gookin]

I see most everyone is leaning towards having ISAC handling the reports. Disregard my last message, I like the ISAC idea better than using an open forum.

The only question that I have is does ISAC know and agree to the role they are being asked to play?

[Tengu]

That is a perfectly valid question that needs to be addressed. Thank you for raising it, as I feel like an idiot for not even thinking about it.

ISAC should be consulted about playing a part in this matter before we automatically assume they are willing and assign them a role.