blog of a program parent

[try another castle]

Dayton Ohio

Go Triangles! woo hoo!

Say hi to the Deal sisters for me. (Four hours to daylight, four hours and then, pour water on me, till I live again.)



And yeah, I'm getting the feeling that Mr. Carter here has a problem with selective hearing, and is paying attention to only those who are being inflammatory. I know that myself, michael, fem and several others have been quite reasonable and thoughtful in our responses. I even took the time to post in his blog. Because the fact of the matter is, this IS sad, and a lot of us have been there.

However, at this juncture, I'm with Ginger on this. And as she stated...

Butch the fuck up. The butthurt act is getting tired. She's your daughter, not a trained seal. I've been diplomatic, as have several others, but it seems that at this point, you are more interested in how you yourself have been slighted or "done wrong".

I think there is another member of  your family that can school you on what that really feels like.

So many parents say to those of us with no critters of our own: "You have no idea what its like to be a parent." True that. But some of us think about it, as I do, and I always try to have compassion when I can when it comes to families that are in trouble and to think about what it must be like on the other end of things. But other people seem to only be concerned about how they have been slighted, and do not offer others, (i.e. their children) that same courtesy.  As Atticus said "Don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes."


Start walking, Mr. Carter.

[Che Gookin]

What the fuck? The dude spent how much money on his daughter's incarceration and torture and she isn't a trained seal?

she's not a trained seal! DEMAND A REFUND!!!!

[Anonymous]

"Be thankful no emails were sent to ALL of your associates, work and otherwise, about what you did to your own daughter."

DO IT! What's stopping you? Last guy I pwned in this way is STILL reeling from it, and that was three years ago. You're the one with the exposure name- it's now up to you to go whole hog on his ass. Besides, isn't it unfair NOT for his co-workers to know they work with a man who sent his own daughter to a torture cult? It's sure as hell something I would want to know about the people I work with!

Psy, have you been smoking crack? This assclown won't take responsibility for anything! How could anything possibly be his fault? He has a wall of talking points and empty WWASPS rhetoric to hide behind!

Yes, that's it, that's all he has. A few days on Fornits has reduced what was left of his mind into an empty shell. I think the last few shreds of his soul have fled and we're talking to what is effectively a zombie.

All the various lurkers have gotten, horrified, to this point in the thread: TAKE HEED! SHOULD YOU ABANDON YOUR CHILDREN FOR A NEW SPOUSE (it wouldn't surprise me if he killed Katie's mother, actually), YOU VERY WELL MAY END UP LIKE THIS! Massive amounts of hatred directed your way, a daughter who is just beginning to learn that she doesn't have to live under your thumb after she's 18 and will probably start openly cursing your name fairly soon, and a 30-year mortgage.

By the way, about that mortgage? HAHAHAHAH, BITCH! I hope you lose your job and go into bankruptcy for it. Wouldn't THAT be fun to tell a judge about?

Yes, lurkers, YOU TOO can end up just like Michael Carter! Just sign on the dotted line and WWASPS will take care of everything. C'mon, what could possibly go wrong?

It's not so much karma as it is inevitability. It's rather like driving off a high cliff and then being surprised when you hit the bottom. "But... but I posted all the mandatory bullshit about 'my decision' and 'earned privileges'! Why am I still getting owned?"

The funniest part? He's literally not able to understand it. Concepts of morality beyond his basic wants elude him. "Responsibility", "choices", "truth"... these are all just words to him. "Abuse" is also a word he doesn't get, particularly in relation to children. It's like telling a medieval peasant how raping your wife isn't right. Power is the only morality he knows and he doesn't even understand that very well.

I know very well that this isn't going to stop the extended brain-mutilating trainwreck of this thread, but there's really not much point in talking to him any further. Expose him to everyone that knows him, get his daughter the fuck out of there if you really give a shit, but he's beyond anything resembling reason, humanity, or sense at this point. It's like trying to give a mummy CPR.

[Anonymous]

What a fucking train wreck of a thread.

Good to see everyone's pulling punches as usual. Gotta sugar coat things for the "ME ME ME ME ME!" parent trying to get more attention about how hard it was to send money and his kid to strangers, right?

[Antigen]

Ya know, I had a very similar thought at the outset of catching up on these threads. This guy has been posting this sensitive private info for the past 4 years? And the lead role player, pr/an-tagonist just found out last week? Reminds me of my mom, with whom I've spoken maybe 20 minutes total in the last 20+ years. Took to it like a duck to water.

Mike, ...

nothing left to say.

Sorry

If I knew what to say to you I would have said it to my mother 20+ years ago. You're on your own.

[Nihilanthic]

What a fucking train wreck of a thread.

Good to see everyone's pulling punches as usual. Gotta sugar coat things for the "ME ME ME ME ME!" parent trying to get more attention about how hard it was to send money and his kid to strangers, right?

This was me, FYI. Felt like finally logging in.

Hi, you don't know about me, but as soon as people start cluing you in you might shit your pants.

bloo bloo bloo you want to get more attention and narcissism out of this situation when you stumbled on people who buttered you up when you wanted an easy fix so your kid would behave with your new sex partner.

MODS: Why don't images open up automatically? Argh.

Anyway, I've been busy the past 6 months busting ass and taking a crash course of a college, sorry I'm not up to par with the current board software or sugar-coating-techniques. On the other hand I DID stay at a holiday inn express last night. I graduate in may.. then its time to hit the road. Thanks for making the start of my itinerary so easy to plan out there Mike  :twofinger:

[Antigen]

Excuse me - but my wife's work phone numbers ARE NOT posted on my profile, nor on hers.  Nor is my father's name.  Sure, if you dig and research enough you can probably find that and a lot more.  For example, my wife's work phone numbers are associated with here job, period.

Now, you will be glad to know you have frightened her.  I hope those threatening us are proud of themselves - like the anti-abortionists going around with fetus's in a jar - you want to protect only certain people and hurt anyone else.  So rights only extend to those hiding behind the white sheets.

I haven't threatened anybody. Nor do I encourage anyone to do so. I also didn't look up your wife's phone numbers or any of the other things you're complaining about. These things are easily done. (check whitepages.com or google any individual's or organization's name and see what I mean)

The point is that you are the origin of the information which has enabled hostile people to locate this other information. That some people are angry, hurt and ill-mannered enough to react this way shouldn't surprise you much. Just don't make the intellectual mistake of blaming this site or anyone who uses it for publishing information which you yourself have published.

Also, since you didn't answer my message to you on your blog, I would like to clarify one thing. You refer to Fornits as "an extremely ati-program site". As the founder/administrator of this site, I haven't done anything to cause this site to be particularly anti-program. What I have done has been to invite anyone with any sort of interest in the troubled teen industry to speak freely without any censorship or moderation (though we do now also host a few moderated forums for specific purposes) If the general kant of opinion around here is against TC style treatment it's probably a fairly accurate reflection of the consensus among those of us with experience with it. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only way to bring about a pro-program social network is to vigilantly screen out any sort of dissent in much the same way as communications among program participants is so tightly controlled while in the Program.

 

Nobody here has truly tried to discuss anything - but have loaded entry after entry with threats.  

Bullshit. Plain and simple. Many have given you good advice, like talk to your daughter directly, quit following Program advice, quit blaming her for everything, and for Christ's sake quit pretending that the kid ever had all the power in the relationship. This is a popular thread, Mike. Lots of different people reading and responding in various ways. If you choose to dismiss one person's thoughts because of another person's thoughts or deeds, well that's certainly your prerogative. But you know very well that it's a logical error.

On top of that, it's a little tempting, even for me, to rib you just a little simply because the things you're complaining about are NOthing compared to the kinds of emotional abuse your daughter is describing in her writing and which so many of us have endured. Despite myself, I do laugh just a little when the adults who actually have all the power in these situations cry like little girls over just a minuscule fraction of the kind of torment they have inflicted on their kids.

Things like telling my daughter that she should slit my throat in my sleep.  I guess things like that are good and proper, while doing the best I can to raise my children is wrong.

While I strongly disagree with this sort of thinking and behavior, it is worth noting that a fairly significant number program vets/survivors do come out of it feeling just this way.

[TheWho]

Michael, you have to understand this is a highly biased web site.  You will never see anyone asking a fellow survivor to take responsibility or accountability at all on this site or to validate their story.  Many posters never finished the program they were in and have isolated themselves from their family and now continue to heap on hatred towards programs, parents and staff randomly without speaking a word about how they might have contributed to their own consequences in life.

Be it that you are a parent whose sole purpose was to find help for your daughter will not wipe away being a program parent.  If they cannot find fault in their parents, program or staff then they must look inward for the cause and this will never happen so it must be the other three.

You will notice Katies thread will receive nothing but support and no one will question her behavior or life decisions which lead her to Cross Creek stay or any other treatment.  There will be an attempt to isolate her from her family and try to slowly ease her into blaming her life on staff, parents and programs so she can spend her life filled with rage and hatred like they are instead of trying to make sense out of what happened to her and how she can turn it around and figure out what she wants and move forward in life.  If people truly cared they may try to coach her more to resolve issues within herself and her family.
I wouldn’t worry about anyone coming to your residence because the police can trace the people down who post here via their IP if needed (like leaving your wallet at the scene of a robbery) and they all know that.

If someone threatened to trace down Katie and harass her I am sure many here would cry foul.  Interesting how it works.  You were open and honest and recorded your daily journal openly on the internet so no one can fault you for not doing the best you could or hiding like a coward like many here do when the criticize and then fail to discuss their argument or who they are and why they feel like they do.

Reading your blog there were not many options left for you after trying local services which turned out to be ineffective for Katie.  Very few parents have had to face the parental challenges that you had to. So don’t let posters here succeed in making you feel you did the wrong thing.  Whether it turned out good or not it in the end it was the right decision at the time.

Thank you for posting here.  Hang in there.

[try another castle]

. Many posters never finished the program they were in and have isolated themselves from their family and now continue to heap on hatred towards programs, parents and staff randomly without speaking a word about how they might have contributed to their own consequences in life.

Oh, that's rich. Did  you conduct a poll on this?

Because, of course, if  you *finish* the program. That makes everything different, doesn't it? For instance, I did a full tour of duty, graduated and everything, and I can safely say that CEDU was a lovely place, full of rainbows, unicorns and ambrosia salad. I'm now an investment banker who, thanks to the hard work I did on myself at CEDU, avoided the economic cornholing that everyone else suffered in the fall. I also managed to save my family. We all live in boca raton, making a killing selling adirondack chairs to wealthy old folks who have no taste in lawn furniture.

This guy has been posting this sensitive private info for the past 4 years? And the lead role player, pr/an-tagonist just found out last week?

I'm a big, fat stupid-head, because it didn't even occur to me that this would be the case. Either that or I have alzheimers and forgot. My brain is riddled with holes.


I take back my previous posts.


Here's some unsolicited advice, Mike: take whatever money you have remaining (after having your wallet raped by wwasps) and get yourself some long term care insurance. I have a hunch you may need it when you're old.

[Antigen]

How can this site be biased when there's no censorship? Where does the bias come from?

[Anonymous]

 You will never see anyone asking a fellow survivor to take responsibility or accountability at all on this site or to validate their story. ...
You will notice Katies thread will receive nothing but support and no one will question her behavior or life decisions which lead her to Cross Creek stay or any other treatment. .

The “Life decisions that led her to Cross Creek”? The "life decisions" that she "needs to take responsibility for?

I thought people end up in Cross Creek because they are dreadfully mentally ill.
Oh right, that’s the cover you sickos use to hide the fact you imprison young people without due process up for being BAD.

Not because they are dreadfully mentally ill, but because they are BAD.BAD BAD.

[TheWho]

I thought people end up in Cross Creek because they are dreadfully mentally ill.

That isn’t accurate and if you are trying to be funny that isn’t very nice towards Katie.  So far from reading her story I think it is fair to say she is not mentally ill.  She seems to be a well adjusted young girl who is very good at articulating her feelings (at least on paper) since graduating from CCM.  Prior to CCM she was having some serious difficulties with her family and suicide attempts but you cannot call this dreAdfully mental ill.

Take a look at their web site.  It is for teens who are struggling at home and have had difficulty resolving their issues locally.  Give the girl a break.

[Antigen]

You seriously believe that suicide attempts are disobedience and that you can discipline someone out of being suicidal?

Twisted!

People wind up incarcerated by the troubled parent industry for one reason and one reason only; because their parent or guardian or, in rare cases, juvenile courts have paid to have them incarcerated. Your belief that this form of 'treatment' is therapeutic does not make it so.

And no, I'm not about to blame a kid for decisions her parents made. That just wouldn't be logical.

[TheWho]

How can this site be biased when there's no censorship? Where does the bias come from?

If you choose a few threads a random you will see that the posters are biased towards being anti-program.  If you polled on a normal day to determine how many are pro-program and how many are anti-program I think you would see a huge bias towards anti-program thinking. Probably as high as 99 to 1.

There is no relationship between bias and censorship.  Fornits is well know for its (fairness to a fault) in allowing opinions of all kind to be tolerated to the point of near mutiny.  No other web site can hold a candle to what has been accomplished here.  I can name a few posters who could (and maybe should) have been easily silenced (or tossed out on their ass) resulting in making the majority of peoples lives much easier here and the site owner very popular by doing so.  But the stubborn steadfast and sometimes nail biting decision to allow "all and any" opinions and filibusters to run unharnessed will be what proves fornits to be the "original" trail blazing true grass roots "open debate forum" for the discussion and exposure of the inner workings of the TTI.  When abuse occurs within the industry it will be exposed and documented here first.

The bias come from the natural attraction towards discussion boards for those interested in the subject and getting their story heard and these are typically people who have been dealt a bad hand.

[Anonymous]

You seriously believe that suicide attempts are disobedience and that you can discipline someone out of being suicidal?

Twisted!

People wind up incarcerated by the troubled parent industry for one reason and one reason only; because their parent or guardian or, in rare cases, juvenile courts have paid to have them incarcerated. Your belief that this form of 'treatment' is therapeutic does not make it so..

Antigen, as I take it, they aren't even PRETENDING WWASP provides "treatment."

That isn’t accurate and if you are trying to be funny that isn’t very nice towards Katie. So far from reading her story I think it is fair to say she is not mentally ill. She seems to be a well adjusted young girl who is very good at articulating her feelings (at least on paper) since graduating from CCM. Prior to CCM she was having some serious difficulties with her family and suicide attempts but you cannot call this dreAdfully mental ill.
Take a look at their web site. It is for teens who are struggling at home and have had difficulty resolving their issues locally. Give the girl a break."].

So, WWASP, appaerntly, does not treat mental illness. Glad,WHOever, you have dropped the pretense of advocating for a medicinal or therapeutic treatment facility.

Oddly, for an organization that does not supply treatment for mental illness, Cross Creek is registered as a lock down PSYCHIATRIC hospital.
http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:z44 ... clnk&gl=us

A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL that does NOT supply treatment for mental illness.
If they are not providing treatment for serious, life-threatening mental illness, under what possible justification do they hold people captive? I love how these people ADMIT these kids are NO different than kids not in lock-down These people are pure, unapologetic sociopaths.

 Jesus. Just SUE THEIR ASS OFF, KATIE!!!! ::unhappy::   ::unhappy::
http://www.turleylaw.com