Author Topic: blog of a program parent  (Read 37806 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #270 on: April 11, 2009, 04:48:03 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Oh please.  These places are more than a little transparent about breaking kids down in order to "build them up".  How, precisely, do you think the breaking down is done?  Humiliation is a powerful tool, as is stripping a person of everything that they connect to as an individual in order to gradually strip them of individuality entirely.  Is it possible the orange jumpsuits/tshirts/uniforms/whatever have multiple purposes?

I am sure there are dual purposes.  The colors or suits that they have the flight risk kids and kids who break the rules wear are probably not the popular ones or as comfortable as an added incentive (or break them down as you put it) for the kids to follow the rules so they don’t have to wear them.  But there seems to be such a big push to label this as a humiliation tool or as abuse.  I just don’t see it. My thinking is alot of posters here believe this because they don’t know any better and this is the first time a lot of these kids have had to conform to strict rules.

If a salesman approached HR and said he was being humiliated and abused because he has been working for the company for 15 years and is still in a small cubicle while all the people he started with have corner and window offices, would he have a case to sue?  Should the company give him a corner office to stop his peers from snickering every time they passed his small cubicle and end his humiliation?  Why are all his co-workers being rewarded with larger offices and not him?  He shows up everyday for work just like they do.

I really beleive the color of the t-shirts is a stretch for crying abuse.
Must this be said a million times?

No one said the "color" or type of outfit itself was the problem--(unless it's mimicking a prisoner's uniform, or is too small, etc---i.e., debasing in itself.)

Like forcefully shaving a "criminal" woman's head,(" publicly shaving a woman’s head may not only humiliate her in front of those who witness her shearing, it may also deprive her of her hair for as long as it takes to grow back, thus serving as a continual reminder of her punishment and her humiliation") Cross Creek’s uses colors to denote  a detainee’s badness, depravity, and like the “yellow star of Judea” it uses colored scrubs to create a caste system in which  the precise humiliations and abuses the wearer has/will experience and deserves to experience are publicly displayed. The symbolism of the forcefully applied color and its “abuse level” designations is the psychological torture, not the color itself, as the symbolism of the forcefully shaved head is psychological abuse, not a shaved head itself.  

As for forcing self injurers to wear “yellow,” why not make the girls who have been involved in incest wear "red" or a scarlet "A"? Making what is personal and painful into a public exhibit is yet another layer of deliberate psychological destruction: disintegration of emotional privacy, taking away the choice of whether to make something so personal into something public, turning something painful into something shameful, and turning a bad experience or symptom of pain into an identity


As for your not having a corner office being equivalent to kidnapping people and forcing them into outfits that designate their level of depravity and the level abuse they recieve, the reason you can't see the difference is the reason you are a child abuser. I actually think that you abuse your child (or other people's) to cathartically purge "normal" humiliations such as not having a large office. Your victims are you "poison bags." You channel the poison of your everyday life onto them.

By the way, your arguments are absurd and anyone with an education or a brain pays them no mind. I respond only because this subject is my emotional heart.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #271 on: April 11, 2009, 04:49:14 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
I really beleive the color of the t-shirts is a stretch for crying abuse.

Perhaps on it's own, but in context with everything else, it can paint a different picture.  Just stick around and keep an open mind.

Are you saying this guest is not the who?

Can you please answer that? I've asked you before. he sound a lot like him, but I dont want to keep assuming he is if he is not.
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Offline psy

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #272 on: April 11, 2009, 05:19:52 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
I really beleive the color of the t-shirts is a stretch for crying abuse.

Perhaps on it's own, but in context with everything else, it can paint a different picture.  Just stick around and keep an open mind.

Are you saying this guest is not the who?

Can you please answer that? I've asked you before. he sound a lot like him, but I dont want to keep assuming he is if he is not.
I couldn't tell you even if he was.  You should know that.  The only time I've outed Who is when he has given me permission.  Identities of guests is private, and that applies to everybody here regardless of how myself, ginger, or anybody else might feel about them personally.

In this case, I didn't even check (i rarely if ever do).  Frankly, I don't want to know.  I do know that there are lots of parents like his persona (who he portrayed himself to be) out in the world, although I do believe Whooter is/was actually a hired gun...  There is really no other explanation if you've followed him for long enough.  He'll defend *any* program... even places like AARC.  I'm not sure even the most staunch program parent would be as extreme if they were exposed to the same truth he has been.

Anyway...  It really doesn't matter whether the person is whooter, a program parent, or a regular playing devil's advocate.  It's a necessary function.  Whooter was right about one thing: there must always be a counterbalance on this forum.  Think long enough about it and maybe you'll agree.  He asks us to question why program critics believe what they believe... and I think that's important.  Blindly following any ideal is dangerous, regardless of what it is, and even if you're "right".  It's mental sloth.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #273 on: April 11, 2009, 06:09:39 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "NeilW"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
What I would like to know is why you, NeilW, have such an interest in our forum and what program you are affiliated with and why you think the kind of "treatment" in these programs is appropriate. Furthermore I would like to know if you have children, and if you have at any point placed them in a program. I know these questions have been asked before and you blatantly skirt them, and I assume cowardliness is just another perk of your refined personality but I think it would only be fair that you reveal your reasoning for being so cold toward us and the children we are advocating for.

I have several children and have had a child in a program.  If I seem cold towards you it is because I have seen the bias of how parents are treated vs kids on this forum.  I find it hard to believe that you say who you are.  People that I have known who studied psychology don’t go around calling other people names.  I also find it hard to believe that you know the names of people who force kids to eat feces and vomit and urinate on them.  It seems that within the confines of this forum stories like this are accepted at face value.

Those "stories" are from 1000s of survivors, have been submitted under penalty of perjury, during in the course of lawsuits,criminal investigations, congressional hearings. They have been presented to Feds and have put more than one WWASP manager in the clink and have closed down several WWASP torture chamers. (mostly overseas by countries not bought by David Gilcrease and his evil child murdering henchmen) Time to stop calling them stories, who.

FEMANON, contact Kaite, or her brothers. Do something helpful instead of wasting time with thewho, please, ::poke::  :soapbox:

Already found her, contacted her and just waiting for a response. Katie's Myspace

.


thank you for finding Katie! How did you manage it, if you don't mind saying?
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Offline Antigen

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #274 on: April 11, 2009, 07:17:19 PM »
Quote from: "mcarter.fornits"
However I WILL NOT RESPOND to anonymous emails - since people have decided to post my name, Diane's phone numbers and a whole lot more information, then if you expect me to respond then I will expect the same - a minimum of your full name and location. Nor will I respond to flames.

Let's make this clear right from the gate. YOU posted that personal identifying information about yourself in your profile at Blogger.com. You can't legitimately complain about anybody but yourself making that public. I suppose that when you did that, you just presumed that the whole world would agree with you and maybe send you love letters or business connects or something. Now you're haring from people who have been the beneficiaries of the same sort of "help" you have inflicted on your daughter. Yeah, it cost you a lot. That 30 year mortgage is nothing compared to the costs you have begun to realize but have yet to properly attribute to the correct cause.

Quit picking on the kid and take some responsibility for your own actions, please.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #275 on: April 11, 2009, 09:38:15 PM »
Taking responsibility for you actions?

Damn girl.. staff words!
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Offline Antigen

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #276 on: April 11, 2009, 11:42:21 PM »
Quote from: "mcarter.fornits"
The most interesting
part of the book is that of the very few programs she talked about, Cross Creek came out basically without a problem. She didn't like
it, but couldn't condemn it (aside from the fact that they wouldn't meet with her).

I first met Maia when she attended the Drug Treatment Abuse conference in Bethesda, MD back in 2000. I wound up doing the website for the book. During that time, I asked her why she had chosen to publish such well known accounts instead of introducing any of the plethora of newer information that had come to light in the mean time. She told me that it was not her call but that of her editors and it was because of the cost of litigation. The stories she chose to outline were already proven, documented, sworn, unimpeachable. It costs a LOt--a lot of money, a lot or time, a lot of emotional energy--to bring a case to that point. Believe me, there's more out there. Lots more.

Now, as a man, will you assume everything's safe till some authority figure tells you otherwise or will you listen to your own blood?  Simple choice. Not easy,  by any stretch. But simple as Simon.
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Offline Antigen

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #277 on: April 11, 2009, 11:48:56 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"

Your blog is very helpful to other parents who are struggling with similar family issues.  Thank you for taking the time to posts as often as you did.  I am sure you help others with it.

Sure, as a cautionary tale about what NOT to do.
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Offline mcarter.fornits

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #278 on: April 12, 2009, 12:09:45 AM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "mcarter.fornits"
However I WILL NOT RESPOND to anonymous emails - since people have decided to post my name, Diane's phone numbers and a whole lot more information, then if you expect me to respond then I will expect the same - a minimum of your full name and location. Nor will I respond to flames.

Let's make this clear right from the gate. YOU posted that personal identifying information about yourself in your profile at Blogger.com. You can't legitimately complain about anybody but yourself making that public. I suppose that when you did that, you just presumed that the whole world would agree with you and maybe send you love letters or business connects or something. Now you're haring from people who have been the beneficiaries of the same sort of "help" you have inflicted on your daughter. Yeah, it cost you a lot. That 30 year mortgage is nothing compared to the costs you have begun to realize but have yet to properly attribute to the correct cause.

Quit picking on the kid and take some responsibility for your own actions, please.

Excuse me - but my wife's work phone numbers ARE NOT posted on my profile, nor on hers.  Nor is my father's name.  Sure, if you dig and research enough you can probably find that and a lot more.  For example, my wife's work phone numbers are associated with here job, period.

Now, you will be glad to know you have frightened her.  I hope those threatening us are proud of themselves - like the anti-abortionists going around with fetus's in a jar - you want to protect only certain people and hurt anyone else.  So rights only extend to those hiding behind the white sheets.

Nobody here has truly tried to discuss anything - but have loaded entry after entry with threats.  Things like telling my daughter that she should slit my throat in my sleep.  I guess things like that are good and proper, while doing the best I can to raise my children is wrong.   If the people here spent half the energy helping people that they do tearing others down then the world would be a better place.  

I have always taken responsibilities for myself and my family.  Always.  I don't get handouts, I work hard to provide for my family.  I faced some very difficult choices, and some people who disagree with my choices do nothing but threaten me because of them.

I don't see anyone here looking for any kind of balance nor truth.  It is all pushing their agenda.  For most of you, it is that EVERY program is wrong and abusive and EVERY person there has been abused.  There seem to be one or two others who go the other extreme.  Honestly - I believe a lot of the program, especially those overseas, had a lot of issues, and abuse probably did occur there at times.  But very little in the world is black and white.  Not everyone who went to a program was abused.  Anybody who believes in the extremes is deluding themselves, regardless of what the issues are.

Is the color of a t-shirt abusive - I don't think so.  Nor more so than rank symbols in the military are - they indicate EARNED privileges and responsibility.

And since it is after midnight here - Happy Easter to everybody.  I don't claim the label of being a 'Christian', though if any of the anonymous posters here do they should take a look at what this holiday is all about, and the man it celebrates.  For the rest - I hope you at least have a pleasant spring day - and beware of bunnies bearing eggs!
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #279 on: April 12, 2009, 12:48:24 AM »
Ah yes, but in the military you join at Cross Creek Manor you are forced to go.

Likewise, there are numerous ways or denoting rank and privelage but in a program they generally all mean the same thing. The program has a poor staff to client ratio and depends upon the sheeple/upper stage kiss ups to do their supervision for you.

I don't completely agree with the idea that all color coding is immediately abusive. A common color for a group is one thing providing all of the kids wear the same color regardless of status.

Look dude.. I know you want to defend this program because it is easier than coming clean with the fact that you just squandered 3 years of the most precious time you'll ever have with your daughter. I can only hope you'll take the time to forgive yourself and seek her forgiveness later.

Basically, in before the storm because at some point your daughter's programming will wear off and she'll do one or two things:

A) Accept it all as a tragic error and let it go.

B) Do what I would do and rage.. hard.

But hey.. that is her choice as she is an adult and free to make those decisions. Certainly something a program never prepared her to do.

Least not in my experience in working at them for 4 years or so and in other child care capacities for longer.

Best of luck to you and hopefully the easter bunny shit in your mouth.
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Offline psy

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #280 on: April 12, 2009, 12:59:06 AM »
minor note before i head to bed...

look, Mccarter,

To me, responsibility means for my own actions and that is it.  To you, it seems to mean for anything that happens to you in your life (universal).  It's a convenient philosophy for programs to teach to parents in their seminars because you're always "at cause"(alwys your fault).  This means they can screw you all they want and no matter what, you'll blame yourself.

just food for thought.

Is it possible you made a mistake by putting your daugher in CCM?  is it?  Would you believe her or condemn her (accuse her of manipulation) if she ever told you about mistreatment while there?  Why?
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Offline psy

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #281 on: April 12, 2009, 01:08:30 AM »
Also, just FYI, this forum is unmoderated.  Please don't blame *everybody* for the words of just one person.  Contrary to what you might think, not everybody here thinks alike.
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Offline Antigen

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #282 on: April 12, 2009, 01:11:51 AM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Taking responsibility for you actions?

Damn girl.. staff words!

Ok, yeah, but I know the true meaning of those words. Just like I knew, instinctively, that they had misspelled the word "impotent" when they typed out the rules staring with the first one, "Honesty, the first and most important[sic] rule".
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Offline Antigen

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #283 on: April 12, 2009, 01:32:56 AM »
Quote from: "mcarter.fornits"
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "mcarter.fornits"
However I WILL NOT RESPOND to anonymous emails - since people have decided to post my name, Diane's phone numbers and a whole lot more information, then if you expect me to respond then I will expect the same - a minimum of your full name and location. Nor will I respond to flames.

Let's make this clear right from the gate. YOU posted that personal identifying information about yourself in your profile at Blogger.com. You can't legitimately complain about anybody but yourself making that public. I suppose that when you did that, you just presumed that the whole world would agree with you and maybe send you love letters or business connects or something. Now you're haring from people who have been the beneficiaries of the same sort of "help" you have inflicted on your daughter. Yeah, it cost you a lot. That 30 year mortgage is nothing compared to the costs you have begun to realize but have yet to properly attribute to the correct cause.

Quit picking on the kid and take some responsibility for your own actions, please.

Excuse me - but my wife's work phone numbers ARE NOT posted on my profile, nor on hers.  Nor is my father's name.  Sure, if you dig and research enough you can probably find that and a lot more.  For example, my wife's work phone numbers are associated with here job, period.

Oh, you assumed we're all druggie fuckups, incapable of doing simple quick research? Your bad. It's all out there and you published the initial information and impetus for people to hit Whitepages.com to gather the rest. Because you were guilty of the 7th Cardinal sin, you figured it was safe enough to do this. The real gut busting laughable irony here is that it really is that safe. So? You've had a bit of your dirty laundry tied to your identity. Can you even begin to imagine how your daughter must feel discovering the last 4 years of her private life published without her consent or even information ??? It's not as if any old prospective school, employer or significant other couldn't do the same light research in the same ten minutes it took the troll to do it.

Look, listen, I think you're a reasonable man who has been snookered in very like manner to the way my own very wise and heartfull father had been. Just tell the Program staffer in your head to sit down and shut the fuck up and take a look at what you have done, please. I'd rather never hear from you or Katie again in this public forum but know that you worked things out than to have more grotesque publicity for the cause. But if you refuse to address her respectfully as a fully qualified human being (who, btw, will be responsible for your care in your later life in much the same way you were for hers in her early life ... not to put too fine a point on it) then I predict, but do not wish, that this ugly family brawl will continue where you started it, in public.

Butch the fuck up, man! Quit layin' it on your young daughter and calling it heroism! Aw gawd! This is fucking Sickening!!! Stop please! Go pick on someone your own size!

Quote

Now, you will be glad to know you have frightened her.

Uh, do you think she and you have not frightened Katie ...  repeatedly... protractedly? Butch the fuck up or cut your balls off and pickle them.

Quote
 I hope those threatening us are proud of themselves - like the anti-abortionists going around with fetus's in a jar - you want to protect only certain people and hurt anyone else.  So rights only extend to those hiding behind the white sheets.
Or those of legal age of majority? Hypocrite. Take what you dish out with a little courage and maybe, one day, your daughter will trust you again.

Quote
Nobody here has truly tried to discuss anything - but have loaded entry after entry with threats.  Things like telling my daughter that she should slit my throat in my sleep.  I guess things like that are good and proper, while doing the best I can to raise my children is wrong.   If the people here spent half the energy helping people that they do tearing others down then the world would be a better place.  

Well, one of the things a lot of us try to warn the program faithful about is that some people are so adversely effected by this mindfuck that they become irredeemably violent and sociopathic. You are one lucky son of a bitch in that your daughter, unlike some, is still trying to reach out to you with arms of love and words of understanding instead of a baseball bat like Timothy Nixon http://www.thestraights.com/pickets/warning_parents.htm or a number of other kids who have turned their rage either on their parents in murder or on themselves in suicide.

Look, Mike. I meant what I said. I think you're sincere but misguided. You just don't know the real history of the cult to which you have given your allegiance. You should look into it some.
 
Quote
I don't see anyone here looking for any kind of balance nor truth.  It is all pushing their agenda.  

What, are you fucking kidding me? Take a minute or two and contemplate this question, please. Why in the world would so many people ranging from the unimpeachable professional success story all the way to the disenfranchised meth head or prolee continue to protest this one common element of our experience after all these decades if there were not something to it? Why would so many parents, like Buzzkill and others, join in their dissent?

 Not saying you're a bad person or dumb or any such like. Smart people are easier to scam than dumb ones because of... well, that deadly sin... you know the one... Just saying please live up to your reputation and think instead of just scrambling to rearrange your prejudices or deck chairs or however you fancy to visualize it.

Sometimes an agenda has merit, other times it doesn't. You know that. You're a logical man. I'm disappointed that someone calling themselves a programmer would stoop to using that right honorable term in a pejorative manner a la program drone. WAKE THE FUCK UP! THIS IS THE ONLY DAUGHTER YOU WILL LIKELY EVER HAVE!
Quote

Is the color of a t-shirt abusive - I don't think so.  Nor more so than rank symbols in the military are - they indicate EARNED privileges and responsibility.
No more than the shape of a dunce cap. It's the meaning in context that is demeaning. And, trust me as one who has been there, this is a very MINOR little red herring thrown by a troll. Much more harmful and obvious abuse is discussed in this thread. Ask yourself, please, why you would choose to grab for the low hanging fruit and seize on that particular argument instead of addressing any of the many more substantial topics raised in this and related threads.

Please as yourself. I don't care very much whether you answer me or not. But please, please ask yourself.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #284 on: April 12, 2009, 01:51:27 AM »
Anyone wonder about the kind of stupid required to fork over one's life savings to a cult?

Beheld: Michael C. Carter, misbegotten son of Carrol Joseph Carter, and his wife, Diane Carter, of Dayton Ohio. His idiocy surpasses lesser idiots, on this day of our savior's resurrection, and forevermore.

Michael Carter, YOU posted your full name, you father’s full name, and your wife’s name & pictures on your blog along with you address. I think you even linked to your wife’s place of work, or mentioned she worked in real estate. I don’t remember. The only "research" that may have done to get her address was to Google her name (which you provided) and her location (which you provided) and, poof, top of the page, her work # appears.

Be thankful no emails were sent to ALL of your associates, work and otherwise, about what you did to your own daughter.

Because, while you choose WWASP-dream-cult-world  over reality as witnessed in multiple lawsuits, sworn testimonies, news articles, books, clinical studies, deaths, criminal prosecutions,  the well-known record of its founders, and your OWN  eyes if you were capable of comprehending what you saw (Hint:not allowing a human being to call ANYONE until she "earns" that privilege is psychological torture, and illegal, even in prison) most people live in reality…And what do you think they’d think of YOU if they found out what YOU did?

(Outside of those who work for the teen torture industry, like Neil W, and mentally warped lappers of LGATs and EST, people don’t condone the torture of innocents.)

Also, what is the problem with posting your wife or father’s name and address.Please tell me what your objections are about that, exactly.
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