Horse Gone, Closing Barn Door

[TheWho]

Mr. Ajax13, I have been following this conversation and I believe that someone has been pulling your leg.  If you even get caught putting false information on a student loan from the government they are going to do more than just stop giving you money.  It will be a very big deal and you will have to repay it.  If it was $600,000 you would go to jail and there would be a public outcry.  Plus they check all back ground information.  You can not say you are a doctor when you are not.  It is very easy to check.  You seem very naive, Ajax, why is someone telling you this and more importantly why would you fall for all of this?

[TheWho]

Mr. Ajax13, I have been following this conversation and I believe that someone has been pulling your leg.  If you even get caught putting false information on a student loan from the government they are going to do more than just stop giving you money.  It will be a very big deal and you will have to repay it.  If it was $600,000 you would go to jail and there would be a public outcry.  Plus they check all back ground information.  You can not say you are a doctor when you are not.  It is very easy to check.  You seem very naive, Ajax, why is someone telling you this and more importantly why would you fall for all of this?

Guest, I really wouldnt take what ajax says literally.  He thinks they are all crooks becaue he had a girlfriend or wife who went there and she still drinks so it didnt work for her.  Who else is he to blame?  You might feel the same way in his circumstances.

[Anonymous]

AARC was never attractive to the government.  Dinning arranged for the initial $600 000 for AARC when it was still called Kids of the Canadian West, but once word got out that it was really just a cult with no basis in established scientific medical theory, the government funds were cut off.  AARC began to receive money in earnest from the government after Paddy Meade took over at AADAC.  There was of course no way for Health and Wellness to directly fund a religious institution posing as a treatment centre, so the money was funnelled from H and W to AADAC and delivered to AARC in slush piles, rather than as payment for treatment services, since there are no such services provided at AARC.  
AARC has had to repeatedly lie about their regimen, claiming that it is clinically proven, when in fact, it is completely disproven.  The ridiculously pseudo-scientific practise of dismantling the identity of AARC victims and replacing it with the identity of the addict has been abandoned all across North America, with the exception of the Straight-descended rip-offs like AARC.
In order to secure any monies, the Wiz has lied for years and years, claiming to be a psychologist when he is in fact a phys ed teacher and guidance counselor.  In order to appeal to any source of funding AARC has had to resort to propagating a body of lies, beginning with denial of the fact that AARC is simply Kids with a new name.  Add to that the Executive Director's lie about being a mental health professional.  Couple that with the lie that AARC uses a clinically proven and tested treatment method, and add in the zealotry of parents who sold out their kids, choosing instead to exist in a permanent state of cognitive disonnance, and you have the recipe for the AARC fraud machine.

Ajax, have you forwarded your information discoveries to the appropriate governing bodies and perhaps journalists? I don't know the background of your advocacy, but I hope you are going beyond posting on fornits because that unfortunately accomplishes little.

Could you tell me about the responses from these bodies and media?

I am a survivor of an organization I believe is a straight outcropping.


I am a survivor of an organizatin I beleive is a stragiht outcropping.

[ajax13]

If you're a survivor of a Straight-descended cult, I suggest that you contact your elected representatives if you have a complaint.  
Any AARColytes unfamiliar with misappropriations of government funds might want to look into the fall of the Liberal Government in Canada.  The idea that it is impossible to defraud the government is so ludicrous, it begs the question as to whether you are really that stupid and ignorant, or if you are pulling everyone's leg.  So here's the question, AARColyte:
Are you really so stupid that you would honestly state that the government cannot be defrauded since they perform background checks on student loans?  Please, for the sake of humanity, tell us that you're only joking and that you aren't that stunned.

[TheWho]

Guest, these claims have been brought up numerous times over the years.  Most are just made up by ajax who claims employees said they played ice hockey when they didn’t or have wives who are overweight.  Why this upsets him is unclear.  Now he claims they are defrauding the government, but he is the only one aware of it.  The government wont listen to him anymore so he comes on fornits to tell his stories.  He really believes he knows more than the government so he will stay the course.  I believe his intentions are good because he is standing up for his girlfriend who doesn’t seemed to have got better, sometimes this is the only way to burn off the anger of failure
It takes several years to purge themselves before they can move on,  so every couple of weeks we go thru the same exercise here with ajax and a few others.
These exercises have not been futile.  They have resulted in some great conversations and studies on AARC which showed a 85-90% success rate which we never knew before Ajax brought the studies in here to review.  Ajax informs us when certain employees get certified or degreed, AARC works closely with the government and local charities etc. so there is some good history being developed.
This latest go around revealed that the government (and various charities) has access to AARC’s books, so the probability of fraud is slim and Ajax has never been able to provide any evidence to the contrary.

Before reading here on fornits with Ajax I always thought AARC was more or less like AA who also over charged people and were basically ineffective.  But these exercises have proved otherwise.  Getting all the facts out into the open is always good and these discussion help to do that.

[ajax13]

As anyone reading here is welcome to decide for themselves whether or not they feel that what AARC is doing is fraud can decide for themselves.
AARC is a religious institution that claims to be able to treat a brain disease.  The employees who provide the bulk of what AARC calls treatment are Peer Counselors.  These are former clients who have undergone an AARC training course.  They are not medical professionals, nor mental health professionals.  These people are overseen by the Clinicals.  These people consist of the Wiz, a phys ed teacher and guidance counselor; Natalie Imbach, a former client who has a degree in marriage and family counselling, likewise Gonewaydown Brown; Lyin' Bryan Campbell has a BA from the diploma mill that awarded the Wiz his PhD, along with Miller Newton's two Phds, and has provided many testimonials to back up Kids and AARC.  None of these clinicals is a licensed medical professional nor mental health worker.
Is it a fraud for these people to claim to be treating a brain disease by forcing people to acknowledge that they have a disease which controls their actions, and that they only way they can control the disease is to relenquish themselves to a higher power.  The treatment also involves praying, and an array of rituals revolving around the use of music.  Another aspect of treating this brain disease is to isolate the new clients from their family and friends.  All this for $150 a day that does not include residential costs.
Does that sound like fraud to you?

[TheWho]

You always talk about degrees not being adequate or the place not having the proper licenses etc.  But you never cite the requirements.  Which licenses are they lacking and where is the order from the government to get the license?  Which degrees are required  and where is this written down.  You say $150 a day is too much but you never cite the cost you believe it should be.
The consumers dictate the cost, always has always will.  If they charged $100,000 a day no one would show up.  If they charged $10 a day there would be a line up the street.  $150 is what people are willing to pay AARC doesn’t set the price.  Residential in the US is about $250.. hospitals are about $2,000 a day.
You are just blowing off steam, Ajax.  I know that if they lowered their cost to suit you (say $90 a day, $30 a day) you would still not be happy, you would still bitch about something.  But its all good.  It gets it all out in the open which is always a good thing.  Until you brought all this up I never knew AARC was $100 a day cheaper than residential treatment in the US.
Its all good stuff, its information.  The more the better.

[Anonymous]

hi,

Actually, guest, aa does not charge people for their services.

Also, AARC has never produced any studies that have scientific validity.

Ajax, could you tell me what action,  if any, the govt. or media has taken in response to evident fraud and impropriety at the AARC, and to the accounts of torture, imprisonment and brainwashing from former captives?

[TheWho]

hi,

Actually, guest, aa does not charge people for their services.

Thats nice,  they cant be all that bad then LOL.  

Also, AARC has never produced any studies that have scientific validity.

I am aware of the lack of studies in general thoughout the industry.  I was referring to a study Ajax referenced.  Which showed an 85-90% success rate after 4 years, if I recall properly.  This was several months ago I think.  I haven’t seen any showing they are ineffective.  Its important to try to look at as much information as possible (good and bad)

[ajax13]

There is a standard response from government officials connected to AARC, specifically, Stevens, Meade and Forsyth.  These people simply advise that one contacts the Child Abuse Emergency Hotline.  Government officials not connected to AARC have so far proven to be dismayed, most having no knowledge of the program whatsoever.  Health Minister Leipert has currently refused to respond to any inquiries.  The last account of a former prisoner complaining about AARC brought a response from Calgary Police Services that is vastly different than the CPS response in the past.  CPS is now famliar with AARC, and they know something is up.  In the past they did not take complaints seriously, but that is no longer the case.  
I fail to see why the previous poster keeps claiming that the payment of AARC's $150 a day fees is a consumer decision.  AARC generates most of it's money from charitable donations.  These donors have no idea that they are giving money to a cult run by a phys ed teacher posing as a psychologist.  In addition to the charity money, AARC also receives money from the Provincial Government, this money is also obtained through a series of deceptions and political manipulations.  A small fraction of the AARC clientele pay $150 of their own money per day.  Most of the money is generated by manipulating a few individuals.
As to treatment in the states, AARC costs much more than the identical Straight rip-off clones in the States.  PFC is the same Straight program, right down to the Peer Counselors and Host homes, but even PFC, which is on life-support as we speak, charges half what AARC does.
Again, I put it to anyone reading to make the determination for themselves: Does an institution claiming to treat a brain disease require regulatory oversight in the form of a licensing criteria?
Does such an institution require licensed professional medical staff to perform said treatment?
Is it fraud if this treatment consists of prayer, and confessions and the entire process is overseen by a phys ed teacher and a bunch of his followers?
As free individuals, any of us can determine whether or not we feel that this is fraud.

[TheWho]

As to treatment in the states, AARC costs much more than the identical Straight rip-off clones in the States. PFC is the same Straight program, right down to the Peer Counselors and Host homes, but even PFC, which is on life-support as we speak, charges half what AARC does.

They are only getting half because that is all people are willing to pay there.  Dont you think they would like to get $150 a day?  If people were willing to pay more don’t you think PFC would accept it?  I would guess they would jump at the chance.

Again, I put it to anyone reading to make the determination for themselves: Does an institution claiming to treat a brain disease require regulatory oversight in the form of a licensing criteria?

So from your question it sounds like they are not required to be regulated.  But it seems you would like them to be licensed.  This is much better Ajax.  If people feel they should be licensed then they should fight for it and have laws enacted.  But you cant blame AARC for not being licensed when there is no requirement.

Does such an institution require licensed professional medical staff to perform said treatment?

If the people or their government pass laws requiring this then we can all approach AARC and let them know they need to apply for a license.  But until then there is no requirement.  I wouldn’t expect anyone to run around getting licenses if are not required to.

Is it fraud if this treatment consists of prayer, and confessions and the entire process is overseen by a phys ed teacher and a bunch of his followers?

Until the requirements are defined then this is not fraud, Ajax.  It is your opinion.  One person may feel they all need Phd’s others might think a masters degree is enough.  Others may feel a gym teachers and singing coach is enough.  When ever there are questions you need to go back and look at the requirements and right now they meet what the law requires.

As free individuals, any of us can determine whether or not we feel that this is fraud.

This is true, each of us can decide for ourselves whether we want our loved ones attending.  If we want these decisions to apply to people outside our families we need to establish laws and guidelines.
Ajax, that was a very clear post.  Some of your past posts were confusing.  You were mixing fact with your own opinions which made it hard to follow.  Personally I always like to see some type of license to be required when people are being treated.  So I would side with you and vote for that.

[Anonymous]

There is a standard response from government officials connected to AARC, specifically, Stevens, Meade and Forsyth.  These people simply advise that one contacts the Child Abuse Emergency Hotline.  Government officials not connected to AARC have so far proven to be dismayed, most having no knowledge of the program whatsoever.  Health Minister Leipert has currently refused to respond to any inquiries.  The last account of a former prisoner complaining about AARC brought a response from Calgary Police Services that is vastly different than the CPS response in the past.  CPS is now famliar with AARC, and they know something is up.  In the past they did not take complaints seriously, but that is no longer the case.  
I fail to see why the previous poster keeps claiming that the payment of AARC's $150 a day fees is a consumer decision.  AARC generates most of it's money from charitable donations.  These donors have no idea that they are giving money to a cult run by a phys ed teacher posing as a psychologist.  In addition to the charity money, AARC also receives money from the Provincial Government, this money is also obtained through a series of deceptions and political manipulations.  A small fraction of the AARC clientele pay $150 of their own money per day.  Most of the money is generated by manipulating a few individuals.
As to treatment in the states, AARC costs much more than the identical Straight rip-off clones in the States.  PFC is the same Straight program, right down to the Peer Counselors and Host homes, but even PFC, which is on life-support as we speak, charges half what AARC does.
Again, I put it to anyone reading to make the determination for themselves: Does an institution claiming to treat a brain disease require regulatory oversight in the form of a licensing criteria?
Does such an institution require licensed professional medical staff to perform said treatment?
Is it fraud if this treatment consists of prayer, and confessions and the entire process is overseen by a phys ed teacher and a bunch of his followers?
As free individuals, any of us can determine whether or not we feel that this is fraud.

Why do the police not prosecute the AARC for torture of the former clients who have come foward?
What is their explanation for that?

[ajax13]

This isn't complicated.  Is it fraudulent for a phys ed teacher to pass himself off as a psychologist, and to have the followers of his religious organization take money from the parents of clients, the government and charity groups while claiming to treat a brain disease with confessions and prayer?   The law is very clear as to who can perform Restricted Acts in Alberta, and AARC's treatment claims appear to constitute a Restricted Act.  The Peer and Clinical Staff are definitely not legally entitled to perform Restricted Acts.  Are they breaking the law or not?  
As to AARC fees, again, this can't be made any simpler.  The Client base does not pay $150 a day.  That is the money AARC claims as a rate in order to justify taking millions in  charitable donations and tax-payer money.  The money AARC receives, it receives by lying about who they are and what they do.  Always have.
The Police do not prosecute anyone.  The Crown has to prosecute, and Gary Wong is firmly ensconced in the AARC web of political patronage.  Don't expect any prosecutions in the immediate future.

[TheWho]

There are plenty of professionals who wear multiple hats especially in smaller institutions.  The gym teacher can also be the schools psychologist.  If you knew someone specifically that is breaking the law just make a call.  They can check his/her record in the database and clear it up in a matter of hours.  Once they are exposed they will be out the same day.  Personally I think someone is pulling your chain and you are buying into it.
As far as curing brain disease with prayer and singing…. If it works who cares?  People claim to solve cigarette addiction with acupuncture and others with hypnosis.  If they can measure a decent success rate then let them do it.
As far as the rate is concerned.  If you think they should be able to get by on less than $150 a day then you should try to make your case.  Take a look at the expenses, compare it to other programs, try to determine what the treatment is worth in various other cities and then compare it to AARC.  This may give you an idea if their costs are high or low if it really is a concern to you.  Who knows it may turn out to be an interesting study.  What I think you will find is that AARC comes in “under” all the other places.  That is why they are so attractive to charities and government grants and what has made them so successful.

[ajax13]

Since the Wiz is not and has never been a psychologist, he is not entitled to legally perform the Restricted Activity of psychic intervention in the Province of Alberta.  Nor are any of the Peer Counselors nor AARC's clinical staff.  As AARC claims to be treating a brain disease, and the Peer and Clinicals are the staff who perform said treatment, are they violating the law by performing a Restricted Act without being members of one of the Health Professions legally entitled to do so?

I would enthusiastically suggest that the above anonymous poster take some time to read over the Health Care legislation in Alberta as it pertains to performing Restricted Acts, as I have done.  Then, I might suggest that the reader talk to a few dozen former AARC clients, to see what they were told about the Wiz's credentials.  As I have done.  Then I would suggest contacting the College of Psychologists in Alberta to see if the Wiz holds any such credential.  As I have done.  This may be a daunting exercise as it would involve interacting with people who would be highly unlikely to divulge much infornmation to someone apparently very determined to obscure their identity.  However, by all means anonymous guest, let us know what you find out.