Author Topic: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run  (Read 56926 times)

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Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #300 on: July 06, 2009, 04:41:24 PM »
My Back Pages, by Bob Dylan

Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon," said I
Proud 'neath heated brow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"Rip down all hate," I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Girls' faces formed the forward path
From phony jealousy
To memorizing politics
Of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists
Unthought of, though, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #301 on: July 06, 2009, 05:46:50 PM »
Why not post my theme music here, I figure.  This thread is sort of like a journal to me, and I really  prefer not to post too much anywhere other than to it.
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #302 on: July 07, 2009, 01:48:12 AM »
SEKTO:
That Nrsinghadeva Pranama, that’s a lovely chant.
Quote from: "SEKTO"
But the song that represents me best, my personal anthem, would have to be Sinatra's That's Life.
An excellent choice of an anthem.


Quote from: "SEKTO"
Sade's Smooth Operator comes in as a close second.  But that Sade tune was really an Army thing.  Let me explain with a story.
There was this one time in Basic Training (I went through at Ft. Benning, aka Sand Hill) when we were all in formation one afternoon and the Drill Sergeant told us that "every good soldier has a theme song.  What's yours?"  So we were made to go through the formation one by one, in alphabetical order, and announce to the group and sing our individual theme songs.  Mind you, everybody had to maintain their military bearing throughout this exercise, and nobody was allowed to crack a smile at all, much less laugh; we all had to stand rigid at the position of attention, eyes straight ahead and showing no emotion, and sing our theme songs that represented us as soldiers.  Anybody who laughed or so much as smiled would get dropped, yelled at, and made to do a bunch of pushups while the others were singing.  It was like something twisted out of Full Metal Jacket, but funnier.  When it was my turn, off the top of my head and without giving it much thought, I began singing, with a totally straight face, "He's a smooth operator, a smooooth operatooor, smooth operator, smooooth operatoooor...The Drill Sergeant looked at me like I was crazy."
LAUGHING! Picturing it and playing the song in my head. LAUGHING again!
What synapse misfired on that? I’d love to hear Oliver Sacks offer his insights in to what the hell happened along that neural pathway.

Quote from: "SEKTO"
Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now
Well, that’s resonating with me. It’s strange when thoughts that seem exclusively a perception of the unique personal experience of living me get echoed outside of my own mind. It’s as unnerving as it is validating.
Quote from: "SEKTO"
This thread is sort of like a journal to me, and I really prefer not to post too much anywhere other than to it.
Probably for the best. That WHO thread in particular reads like The ScrewTape Letters!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #303 on: July 08, 2009, 02:57:53 PM »
SEKTO (my Accountabilibuddy):

I’m just going to Paint it Black,today
________________________________________
1. To impress (something) upon the mind of another by frequent instruction or repetition; instill: inculcating sound principles.
2. To teach (others) by frequent instruction or repetition; indoctrinate: inculcate the young with a sense of duty
________________________________________
[Latin inculc re, inculc t-, to force upon : in-, on; see in-2 + calc re, to trample (from calx, calc-, heel).]

(Meanwhile)
…The cruelty and revenge also inculcated by this doctrine are equally prominent, in that it consigns the servant — who from fear had hidden the talent — to ...

BTW ads by google brought up this scientology link while key wording Inculcare     " Learn About Scientology - Get The Facts About Scientology. View Exclusive Online Videos Now! Scientology.org "Blah, blah, blah...
Inculcated stated, "Madness, this world is rife with lovely turns of strangeness, and added
I want to be sedated."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #304 on: July 08, 2009, 05:26:14 PM »
Do what you need to do, Inculacted, but as your accountabilibuddy I must caution you to be careful with "Mother's Little Helper."
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #305 on: July 08, 2009, 06:00:16 PM »
Them that's got shall get
Them that's not shall lose
So the Bible said and it still is news
Papa may have…Mama may have…
But God bless the child that's got (HER) own
                       -Billie Holiday
 :nods:
Oh, and that reference to Holiday doesn’t mean I’m slamming chiva.
 It just means I’m Inculcated not Introjected.
Sure Valium n’ I go way back in the day. He’s my valiant comfort, even if his hands are a little cold.
He never minds when I forget he's there and he's always there when I get around to wanting him around me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #306 on: July 08, 2009, 06:51:35 PM »
What you wrote about Prince Valium reminds me of that old Ethel Waters blues tune called "Handy Man."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #308 on: July 08, 2009, 10:47:56 PM »
Quote from: "SEKTO"
When I wrote:

Quote
Personally, I never heard of Straight until '93 when I met a guy in DAYTOP named CM who had come out of there when they closed, and told us all kinds of horrible stories, really bad stuff. He was telling us how DAYTOP was a cakewalk compared to what he had come out of.

...it was my mere intent to report my recollection of what the guy had said.  I remember a guy CM who came to DAYTOP out of Straight and after a while, when he was telling us about where he'd been and what had happened to him there, basically said with respect to DAYTOP, " This place is easy compared to Straight."
Now please understand, this is not me saying that DAYTOP "wasn't that bad;" because DAYTOP was very bad; that which I quoted above had nothing to do with my own personal opinion or commentary, and I am hardly reversing my position as to the insidious nature of the place nor on the effect it had on me.  
Like I've written before, I get the idea that the DAYTOP Richardson I remember (''92-'94) was kind of like "DAYTOP lite" relative to the DAYTOP Richardson from the '98-90 era, when they first started out in TX.  Probably the staff had toned things down somewhat by then, but it was still intense enough to have seriously affected my mentality and the minds of my friends as well.  What to say of what the conditions must have been like upstate!  They would have chewed me up and spit me out there.
Immersion in the DAYTOP program  was hardly a cakewalk for me or for the people I know.  DAYTOP was horribly abusive in our experience, and was run by a bunch of halfassed, thuggish pseudo-counselors who hardly knew what they were doing, and had no business working with a bunch of kids and molding our minds.
SEKTO, I moved this over here to continue:
 :rose:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #309 on: July 08, 2009, 11:59:14 PM »
.You’re damn right Daytop was intrinsically and insidiously harmful. There’s the rub. No pun intended.
I was not f*ing around when I wrote that Daytop was but one of my abused in treatment experiences. Daytop messed me up particularly badly because their punitive love was being inculcated within a thirteen year old girl. They had no business “treating me”,nor anyone else with such tactics .Not like that.
I found my voice in encounter groups it’s true, but those words I parroted were symptoms of what they were doing to all of us.

As for the tendency of some to compare programs it’s pointlessly divisive. I also suspect it’s more of their programming that needs purging.

Here’s the narrative comparison that I base my point on.Later in my teens, while at a Psych unit (non- affiliated with Daytop) I got in to a petty debate with a counselor. We had been discussing REN and Stimpy. He did not believe me when I informed him that “Yes. Discombobulated is a real word.” Eventually he returned to the day room and conceded that “yes, it is a real word”. He then stopped with the fun banter and began baiting me. I knew something was up and understood the situation I was in enough to try to avoid being drawn in. Minutes later as I had to walk past him to head to my room he swept my leg, dropped me to the floor, pinned my forearms with his knees and proceeded to allow a line of what he later laughed off as “frog spit” to emerge then slurp…you get the idea. When he got the hell off of me, I was supposed to be grateful he hadn’t actually spit on me. He tried to laugh it off and told me he had done this because I was “uptight and looked like I could use a good laugh.”
At this same place I was at one point restrained to a “papoose board”. Later,following another staffer's surprise that my being forced to wear a blindfold for a couple of hours (until I was crumpled on the floor "screaming/crying please get it off of me")…didn’t go well. I was given valium to control my outburst and sent to bed in the middle of the day. Never mind that I had fully regressed and had a breakdown from the “Learn to trust and ask for help” exercise that (untrained glorified orderly) of a counselor had administered. He did this because he’d read in my chart from a previous inpatient stay at a crisis centre that I had refused the trust portion of the ropes course. I had done the web/bell thingy and all of the other stuff very well. None of that mattered, I was going to learn to trust one way or another, they were determined.Even though I won't down play how messed up those moment were, I was at least able to recognize the lunacy.
These things I was able to recognize as abusive and feel outrage. I did not own these cruelties as if I deserved them. I was lucky for not having to absorb those particular harms within me.
Daytop calling me TOXIC and silencing me, that stayed with me. The reverberations of that and all they exacerbated with their punitive love play out to this day.
Daytop did me great harm in the long run.
Here is my truncated version of their philosophy “There is no refuge.” End of philosophy.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 12:30:12 AM by Inculcated »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #310 on: July 09, 2009, 12:01:48 AM »
Oooops, I didn't catch the typo till just now.  The above should have read "...was kind of like "DAYTOP lite" relative to the DAYTOP Richardson from the '89-90 era..." and I corrected it on the other thread too.
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Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #311 on: July 09, 2009, 02:58:23 AM »
Quote
You’re damn right Daytop was intrinsically and insidiously harmful. There’s the rub. No pun intended.
I was not f*ing around when I wrote that Daytop was but one of my abused in treatment experiences. Daytop messed me up particularly badly because their punitive love was being inculcated within a thirteen year old girl. They had no business “treating me”,nor anyone else with such tactics .Not like that.
I found my voice in encounter groups it’s true, but those words I parroted were symptoms of what they were doing to all of us.

As for the tendency of some to compare programs it’s pointlessly divisive. I also suspect it’s more of their programming that needs purging.

Here’s the narrative comparison that I base my point on.Later in my teens, while at a Psych unit (non- affiliated with Daytop) I got in to a petty debate with a counselor. We had been discussing REN and Stimpy. He did not believe me when I informed him that “Yes. Discombobulated is a real word.” Eventually he returned to the day room and conceded that “yes, it is a real word”. He then stopped with the fun banter and began baiting me. I knew something was up and understood the situation I was in enough to try to avoid being drawn in. Minutes later as I had to walk past him to head to my room he swept my leg, dropped me to the floor, pinned my forearms with his knees and proceeded to allow a line of what he later laughed off as “frog spit” to emerge then slurp…you get the idea. When he got the hell off of me, I was supposed to be grateful he hadn’t actually spit on me. He tried to laugh it off and told me he had done this because I was “uptight and looked like I could use a good laugh.”
At this same place I was at one point restrained to a “papoose board”. Later,following another staffer's surprise that my being forced to wear a blindfold for a couple of hours (until I was crumpled on the floor "screaming/crying please get it off of me")…didn’t go well. I was given valium to control my outburst and sent to bed in the middle of the day. Never mind that I had fully regressed and had a breakdown from the “Learn to trust and ask for help” exercise that (untrained glorified orderly) of a counselor had administered. He did this because he’d read in my chart from a previous inpatient stay at a crisis centre that I had refused the trust portion of the ropes course. I had done the web/bell thingy and all of the other stuff very well. None of that mattered, I was going to learn to trust one way or another, they were determined.Even though I won't down play how messed up those moment were, I was at least able to recognize the lunacy.
These things I was able to recognize as abusive and feel outrage. I did not own these cruelties as if I deserved them. I was lucky for not having to absorb those particular harms within me.
Daytop calling me TOXIC and silencing me, that stayed with me. The reverberations of that and all they exacerbated with their punitive love play out to this day.
Daytop did me great harm in the long run.
Here is my truncated version of their philosophy “There is no refuge.” End of philosophy.
This is something I wrote last June 10.  Why should I write the same thing all over again, but in a different way?

The thought-reform process begins with isolation of the individual (whether in a physical or psychological sense), then proceeds to a gradual manipulation of the physical environment in which that person is isolated. Then gradual control is exerted over the individual's behavior, the flow of information into and out of the environment restricts the individual's thinking, those very thoughts are retrained and controlled, and emotional range and repsonses are controlled as well.

Basically, what is commonly called "brainwashing" is a process that is mainly physically coercive in nature, and the conditioning usually reverses itself on itys own once one exits the physically coercive situation or environment. "Thought reform," "mind control," or "coercive persuation" is more subtle a process, it is psychologically coercive in nature, and the psychological conditioning is more lasting after the individual leaves the thought-reform environment.

I used to think that DAYTOP "wasn't all that bad" and that in my mind I was somehow exaggerating its coercive nature, as well as the conditioning's effects on my mentality. I used to think of DAYTOP, "Well, at least it's not Straight." But now I see that DAYTOPian coercion is n my opinion in many ways even more damaging to the individual than the blunt force applied in Straight, which is the most egregious and prominent example of an overtly abusive TC for youths in our times. The DAYTOP mind control is more subtly applied and more rigidly reinforced. Very sophisticated B-Mod stuff going down in DAYTOP. Very effective and very subtle mind-manipulation and encouragement of "right thinking" in DAYTOP. It's a thought-reform environment. You know?

If you're being forced to the ground and bound up in restraints, or if you are being subjected to food and sleep deprivation, then you KNOW that that's wrong; nobody has to tell you that it's abusive. But if you're getting screamed at during encounter group or a haircut as a part of a body of people that you are supposed to think of as "the family," and there's this groupthink going on, then there's this element of "it's for your own good" to it, and it's not so readily seen as abusive and coercive in or out of the immediate context in which it's taking place. Therefore, the conditioning is more lasting, more pervasive in a person's psyche, more personalized.


viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26260&start=270
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Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #312 on: July 10, 2009, 01:17:24 AM »
Quote
Probably for the best. That WHO thread in particular reads like The ScrewTape Letters!

I know what you mean.  Sometimes looking around and reading some of these fornits threads (especially the WHO thread) is to me like taking a peek into the Mos Eisely Spaceport.  You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.  Too rich for my blood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSF5Sfq ... re=related
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #313 on: July 10, 2009, 11:09:11 PM »
SEKTO (my accountabilibubby)

 I have been sleeping as means to escape my concerns. I will later whine about my inability to sleep.  This will result in me self administering a dose of ‘night ‘night (Klonopin). The Valium is for the really troubled waters.
 
When I wake in the morning groggy, I will feel badly for having slept so well.

In order to refresh myself I’ll wash down some Adderall with my Noni berry tea. Then I’ll hop in the shower and wonder about everything and everyone and both love and hate this place and all and then wonder why I bother.

By the time I’m sliding hangers in my closet back (looking for the right dress to wrap up in); I’ll wonder why I have such thoughts and why we're taught to bother with lip gloss. Then I’ll wonder if an Ativan might take the edge off and set a better tone for the day I’ll watch from afar.
 
This might be my anthem right now:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LECSVlc6O1g  :poison:
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“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #314 on: July 11, 2009, 12:30:09 AM »
You've got to be careful with that stuff, accountabilibuddy, the pills that is.  Be good to yourself.  Don't overmedicate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OYD5WCp ... re=related
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »