Author Topic: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run  (Read 56996 times)

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Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #285 on: June 10, 2009, 10:40:53 PM »
Quote from: "Dinnerw/DavidDeitch"
http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/educational/ethicalguidelines.html
B.I.T.E.   :-*


Ironic, isn't it, that these Atlanta vampire people have more stringent ethical guidelines in place within their organization, than do the DAYTOPian psychic vampires in theirs?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #286 on: June 10, 2009, 11:01:27 PM »
Quote from: "SEKTO"
:-*

It is my contention that DAYTOP is a cult, and must be understood as such.  Further, I contend that the DAYTOP "treatment program", whether at the inpatient or outpatient level, is essentially a thought-reform regimen.

The tactics of a thought-reform program like DAYTOP are organized to destabilize a person's sense of self, get the person to drastically reinterpret his or her life's history and radically alter his or her worldview and accept a new version of reality and causality, and then develop in the person a dependence on the organization, thereby turning the person into a deployable agent of the organization.
 
Think of the DAYTOP conditioning process in the light of Hassan's BITE model of explaining thought reform environments.  Do you think it fits like a hand in a glove?  I do.  

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcece ... s/BITE.htm

The thought-reform process begins with isolation of the individual (whether in a physical or psychological sense), then proceeds to a gradual manipulation of the physyical environment in which that person is isolated.  Then gradual control is exerted over the individual's behavior, the flow of information into and out of the envirnment restricts the individual's thinking, those very thoughts are retrained and controlled, and emotional range and repsonses are controlled as well.
 
Basically, what is commonly called "brainwashing" is a process that is mainly physically coercive in nature, and the conditioning usually reverses itself on itys own once one exits the physically coercive situation or environment.  "Thought reform," "mind control," or "coercive persuation" is more subtle a process, it is psychologically coercive in nature, and the psychological conditioning is more lasting after the individual leaves the thought-reform environment.

I used to think that DAYTOP "wasn't all that bad" and that in my mind I was somehow exaggerating its coercive nature, as well as the conditioning's effects on my mentality.   I used to think of DAYTOP, "Well, at least it's not Straight."  But now I see that DAYTOPian coercion is n my opinion in many ways even more damaging to the individual than the blunt force applied in Straight, which is the most egregious and prominent example of an overtly abusive TC for youths in our times.  The DAYTOP mind control is more subtly applied and more rigidly reinforced.  Very sophisticated B-Mod stuff going down in DAYTOP.  Very effective and very subtle mind-manipulation and encouragement of "right thinking" in DAYTOP.  It's a thought-reform environment.  You know?  

If you're being forced to the ground and bound up in restraints, or if you are being subjected to food and sleep deprivation, then you KNOW that that's wrong; nobody has to tell you that it's abusive.  But if you're getting screamed at during encounter group or a haircut as a part of a body of people that you are supposed to think of as "the family," and there's this groupthink going on, then there's this element of "it's for your own good" to it, and it's not so readily seen as abusive and coercive in or out of the immediate context in which it's taking place.  Therefore, the conditioning is more lasting, more pervasive in a person's psyche, more personalized.

Here's a genius video on cults and thought reform/mind control.  Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

What follows is a pertinent extract (pp. 20-21) from a book entitled Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults, by Janja Lalich. I recommend Bounded Choice for anyone seriously interested in understanding the psychological dynamics of the cult phenomenon.

http://books.google.com/books?id=p2Udi3 ... +choice%22

Individuals in a cult context are constrained not only by a bounded reality-one product of the self-sealing system-but also by bounded choice. This occurs when the individual reaches what Lifton described as a state of personal closure. ("Closure" in this sense does not mean completion, as it is sometimes used, but a turning inward and refusal to look at other ideas, belifs, or options.) I suggest that a state of person closure should be considered the individualized version of the larger self-sealing system. Thus, as a person identifies and unites with the bounded reality of the group and its belief system, becoming a devotee by making that charismatic commitment to the self-sealing worldview, another process begins to take place. That is, individual perspective and personal decision making become limited and constrained, and that restritction comes as much from within as from without. In the context of closure and constraint, choices may exist, but they are severely limited. In such situations, the person can be described as being in a state of bounded choice

http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookre ... choice.htm

The interaction between the individual and the charismatic system is the key to understanding bounded choice theory. The believer responds to the intellectual and emotional pull of the group with commitment that is renewed through ongoing interaction, and in the process develops a new self. The leader’s vision of the path to salvation has transformational power.

           
  Well said. I believe that  it’s harder for the victim to defend against those insidious abuses/abusers that aren’t recognized immediately as harmful. As such, it’s easier for the mind f*ckers to inflict lasting injury.
It's interesting how we let those who push the farthest boundaries of the extremes cause us to define what is intrinsically harmful in reductive terms like " lesser evils" or as "moderate".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #287 on: June 11, 2009, 05:56:29 PM »
Thank you, Inculcated.  

And now I shall post an augmentation to my previous post which will further expand on the topic of Hassan's B.I.T.E. model of explaining the thought-reform process.

Again: it is my contention that DAYTOP is a cult which subjects its victims to a destructive, closed-group mentality, though immersion in a highly regimented and controlled environment; the DAYTOP program is best explained and understood in the light of one of these thought-reform models.  IMO B.I.T.E. fits them like a hand in a glove.
 
What follows is cut and pasted from a Wikipedia entry on the topic of mind control.  Also outlined are models posited by Lifton and Singer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_contr ... BITE_model

In his book Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves, mental health counselor and exit counselor Steven Hassan describes his mind-control model, "BITE". "BITE" stands for "Behavior, Information, Thoughts, and Emotions." The model has a basis in the works of Singer and Lifton, and in the cognitive dissonance theory of Leon Festinger.

In the book, Hassan describes the components of the BITE model:

Behavior Control
Regulation of individual’s physical reality
Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
Need to ask permission for major decisions
Need to report thoughts, feelings, and activities to superiors
Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques positive and negative)
Individualism discouraged; "group think" prevails
Rigid rules and regulations
Need for obedience and dependency
Information Control
Use of deception
Access to non cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
Spying on other members is encouraged
Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
Unethical use of confession
Thought Control
Need to internalize the group’s doctrine as "Truth"
Use of "loaded" language (for example, “thought terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding, and can even stop thoughts altogether. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words."
Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.
Use of hypnotic techniques to induce altered mental states
Manipulation of memories and implantation of false memories
Use of thought stopping techniques, which shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts
Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate.
No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful.
Emotional Control
Manipulate and narrow the range of a person’s feelings
Make the person feel that if there are ever any problems, it is always their fault, never the leader’s or the group’s
Excessive use of guilt
Excessive use of fear
Extremes of emotional highs and lows
Ritual and often public confession of "sins"

Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader’s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

Hassan writes that cults recruit and retain members through a three-step process which he refers to as "unfreezing," "changing," and "refreezing". This involves the use of an extensive array of various techniques, including systematic deception, behavior modification, withholding of information, and emotionally intense persuasion techniques (such as the induction of phobias), which he collectively terms mind control. He describes these steps as follows:

Unfreezing: the process of breaking a person down
Changing: the indoctrination process
Refreezing: the process of reinforcing the new identity

In Releasing the Bonds he also writes "I suspect that most cult groups use informal hypnotic techniques to induce trance states. They tend to use what are called "naturalistic" hypnotic techniques. Practicing meditation to shut down thinking, chanting a phrase repetitively for hours, or reciting affirmations are all powerful ways to promote spiritual growth. But they can also be used unethically, as methods for mind control indoctrination."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #288 on: June 13, 2009, 11:26:06 AM »
On the Dresser building, DAYTOP Dallas mid-'90s (emphases added by myself):

Yep, that's it, that's the Dresser building I remember, all right.   I went through second stage there, and we had Guadenzia there in October '93.  That's the place where the graduation ceremony for Chris, Bobby, Clay, Don, Armando, me, and a few others was held.  I cannot recall any females graduating from DAYTOP Dallas/Athens, though I am sure that some did.  If I recall correctly, there were a few kids who graduated from Athens there graduating too.  
 
I remember that the Dresser building had that huge recessed sunken fireplace, and the garish '70s design, all of the mauve taupe, burnt orange, and lime green carpeting and wallpaper.  It was obvious that nobody had renovated the place in years.  When DAYTOP moved in, it was a dump, dusty and trashed out, and looked like it had been frozen in time, circa 1978.  It had been unoccupied for many years.  When it was given to DAYTOP (technically sold for a dollar, so I heard) they had kids from Richardson (myself included) go over there from time to time in the van in order to help clean it out.  

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:PB ... clnk&gl=us

Hostess College

Also in 1968, Braniff opened the most expensive and modern "Hostess" college on Wycliff in Dallas. The six-story building (pictured on the right) housed three floors (each with a different "solid" colour scheme) of dormitories. Work-out facilities, training rooms, and a beauty salon could be found on the first two levels. The ground level, was for entertaining "guests" and had a entertainment center, a recessed fireplace, meeting area and classrooms. All of the colors and 56 different "herman miller" fabrics were chosen by Girard. Art was flown in from Panama and South America, and Girard also designed and provided the furniture.

Braniff trained its flight hostesses at a Love Field Hotel and The Braniff Base prior to 1968.

It was occupied by Braniff from 1968 to 1982. It was "sold" (perhaps donated) to Dresser Industries (now part of Haliburton) in 1982. Dresser vacated the building, and it was donated to "Daytop" drug treatment centers. Daytop sold the building in 1997. In 1999, it opened as a highly upscale retirement home, and was totally remodeled. Only a few items including an original Girard art piece in the stairwell, a "fabric wall" with five herman miller colours and "fireplace pit" are the only original Braniff designs left.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #289 on: June 13, 2009, 11:32:27 AM »
DAYTOP vs. the Rasta (Has been moved to the "DAYTOP Doesn't Deserve to Exist" thread.)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:42:52 AM by SEKTO »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #290 on: June 13, 2009, 09:38:38 PM »
Quote from: "SEKTO"
On the Dresser building, DAYTOP Dallas mid-'90s (emphases added by myself):

Yep, that's it, that's the Dresser building I remember, all right.   I went through second stage there, and we had Guadenzia there in October '93.  
 
I remember that the Dresser building had that huge recessed sunken fireplace, and the garish '70s design, all of the mauve taupe, burnt orange, and lime green carpeting and wallpaper.  It was obvious that nobody had renovated the place in years.  When DAYTOP moved in, it was a dump, dusty and trashed out, and looked like it had been frozen in time, circa 1978.  It had been unoccupied for many years.  When it was given to DAYTOP (technically sold for a dollar, so I heard) they had kids from Richardson (myself included) go over there from time to time in the van in order to help clean it out.  

Well SEKTO, you have your predecessors to thank for the garish locale of 2nd stage.

During a smoke break some few of our then small number were rounded in to a room and called a choir. Langstein trained us to project something like holiday cheer in English and Spanish.
On the day of our big performances, the onset of my developing bronchitis caused me to lose my voice. I was not allowed to break formation, even for my fever. (We formed a tree or a bell for the secular)
We went to the Children’s Hospital and they pimped our adorable troubled teen routine to some other places. ( 'stopped at a gas station for some cough drops) We ended up at Halliburton’s party. It was Halliburton that sold the Dresser building to Daytop for a dollar.
I remember one lady who had enjoyed our wassailing voiced her concern that “the little one in front seems flushed” (me)

Thank you, Dick Cheney and Daytop for the Pucci designs and cigarettes and for my chronic asthma.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #291 on: July 03, 2009, 09:21:06 PM »
Dwelling, mulling, ruminating…
SEKTO:
If I had to rank the more unpleasant of the Daytopian group therapy venues I’d say that while the encounter groups were brutal, the extended groups were (and in some ways still are) interminable nightmares.
 
In the early days we were a smaller population with no senior members and an overwhelming swell of staff to kid ratio. They actually told us to expect our first extended group to be “like a sleep over”. Naively we clutched our pillows and swilled sodas. It was too late once I realized why so many boxes of Kleenex were strewn about the room we were in. None of us slept.  

By the time the almighty marathon group was assembled some of us were bitten and shy. We pursed our lips into tight smiles belied by the fear in our eyes as newer members were told to “bring their blankets”. :nods:

Worse than even these was the gawd awful ghastly “Girl Group”. This is where they expanded on the deadinsaneinjail theme to include the caution that we may well all end up as prostitutes, if we did not embrace the “Girls Group Guidance” being extended to us. In fact some of the girls were coaxed,goaded, cajoled…  to “realizations” (skewed condemnations) that perhaps having sex while high or sex with anyone they might’ve gotten high with somehow translated into sex for hire. I dodged the bullet on this, but other shots were fired. (It wouldn’t be long anyway until I was stood before the “family” in that last house meeting called in my honor and pariahed like a 14 year old Hester Prynne). Watching my friend decide she had “sold herself” to her freshmen year boyfriend was gut wrenching.
 
 Beyond even the understandable enforcement of the second of the three cardinal rules (No F,F, OR F’), having even slightest normal adolescent curiosity and drives was discouraged and held as proof of weakness. We were all advised (and for good measure preempitvely admonished) for not "taking ownership of ourselves". Also,that we were to watch ourselves against being sexually manipulative (lest our inherently promiscuous junkie sell out natures be exploited out there in the big bad world).

Acknowledgement of abuse also came hand in hand with this theme.In the same breath as "thanks for sharing that with the group you’re so brave", there was added a caution that this meant some permanent mark was there. This is particularly messed up as it reinforces the blame the victim message and anything internalized by the original perpetrator. It sure as hell taught us to try and blend in with the scenery in those groups, because “support” was just preamble to judgment.

These messed up methods were applied by incompetent drama ghouls. The more they could wrench out of a kid by way of revelation and confession the better. Never mind how these brutal tactics amounted essentially to revictimization in their own tearing ways. The scar tissue left in the wake of such extractions make it damned near impossible for even a competent practitioner to help to heal.

I was going to elaborate on my recollections of girl’s sexual trauma histories being used against them. Instead, I’m going to go binge eat my way out of the size four skinny jeans, because I’m not allowed to have sedatives anymore.(I’m being told I’m learning to cope. Unpacking memories is good for me? It’s supposed to hurt right?) ::puke::

You will likely remember how the rules were applied differently for girls than for the boys. I wonder, did they ever have anything like a boys group?

Also, is it me or is clicking on the “return to daytop village” forum option a little unnerving?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 04:15:56 AM by Inculcated »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #292 on: July 04, 2009, 12:46:29 AM »
To put it more succinctly, it’s that tune stuck in your head, you can’t quite remember the words…but there you are a lifetime later humming along.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #293 on: July 05, 2009, 12:22:44 AM »
Inculcated:

Personally, I remember the haircut sessions and encounter groups as being much more brutal and traumatizing than the Extended Groups that I was part of.  In my day ('92-'94) of DAYTOP Richardson/Dresser we did two Extended Groups the whole time, and I do not remember those as being all that "in your face."  It was a bit like a really long encounter group session, but without the yelling, and a lot of crying, in which we'd talk about all of our deep dark personal stuff and discuss these things amongst ourselves.  I really do not remember these too well, actually; I have pretty vague memories of these sessions and they really did not impress me that much.  Greg facilitated one of the groups that I was in, and Ruben the other.  I remember well, however, Marcy's violently confrontational Encounter Groups, and the way I remember receiving and later giving the haircuts.  I remember distinctly Mike Gomez crying like a baby and how scared he was.  Nobody spent the night in the building for those long groups; they'd start at, like, nine or ten AM and go into the afternoon, at which point we'd go home.   So these groups were six or seven hours long and were by DAYTOP standards realtively pretty tame.  

They'd probably toned down some of the more psychologically invasive elements of the DAYTOP outpatient "therapy" by the time I was part of it, believe it or not.  And I though we had it bad in my day, holy shit.  We never had a single Marathon, for example, and I get the impression that the DAYTOP Richardson I went through was sort of like "DAYTOP lite" compared to the way they were in your days there in Richardson, when they first started out in TX.

What angers me the most about my time in there, what I resent the most, is the fact that none of these people were in any way, shape, of form properly trained or degreed professional counselors, and had any of them been as such they could have picked up on my PDD, made an appropriate referral to a specialist, and gotten me some real help instead of their soul-warping BMod nonsense.  I'll bet you that none of them knew anything about autism other than what they had seen in Rain Man. As it was, they labelled me a "space cadet" who had eaten too much acid and fried his brain.  "Nothing's wrong with you, you just need to grow up, ya baby.  We don't like the way you are, so stop it or else." is what I was taught, basically.  That's right, the counselors' explanation for why I was that way, was attributed to my eating too much acid.  As it was, I was made to feel broken and "weird," and DAYTOP instilled in me a sense of not liking myself, of not being OK with who I was/am.  And I still struggle with that, of simply being OK with B.  DAYTOP would have been one of the worst kinds of places to put some kid like me or Mike Gomez.

Quote
Beyond even the understandable enforcement of the second of the three cardinal rules (No F,F, OR F’), having even slightest normal adolescent curiosity and drives was discouraged and held as proof of weakness. We were all advised (and for good measure preempitvely admonished) for not "taking ownership of ourselves". Also,that we were to watch ourselves against being sexually manipulative (lest our inherently promiscuous junkie sell out natures be exploited out there in the big bad world).

Acknowledgement of abuse also came hand in hand with this theme.In the same breath as "thanks for sharing that with the group you’re so brave", there was added a caution that this meant some permanent mark was there. This is particularly messed up as it reinforces the blame the victim message and anything internalized by the original perpetrator. It sure as hell taught us to try and blend in with the scenery in those groups, because “support” was just preamble to judgment.

These messed up methods were applied by incompetent drama ghouls. The more they could wrench out of a kid by way of revelation and confession the better. Never mind how these brutal tactics amounted essentially to revictimization in their own tearing ways. The scar tissue left in the wake of such extractions make it damned near impossible for even a competent practitioner to help to heal.

Nor do I recall being part of an all-male group while I was there.  We could have had one, and probably did actually, but I do not recall that.  Nor can I recall the girls being separated and taken into an all-girl group.  When I was on second stage, by coincidence all of the second stagers were males and we'd engage in a lot of "guy talk" type stuff, we'd speak on not compromising our sobriety for sex or relationships, and so forth.

There was when I was a coordinator a girl that once told me when we were speaking one-on one, a twelve or thirteen-year-old mind you, that she was being molested by the youth pastor at her church.  She told me that she was being touched inappropriately and demonstated to me exactly where and how he was touching her.  Horrified, I found and told Ruben of this right away, that very day.  But I do not know whatever became of that incident, the youth leader fellow, or of the girl.  She was in foster care, and out of Letot.  I think that she made it to second stage, but am not sure of whether she graduated.  Her name was KH.

There was another time when a boy of sixteen or seventeen told me of being molested by a male stranger who had picked him up while he was hitchiking.  He told me that he was terribly ashamed about what had happened.  I never did tell anyone of this, and in retrospect wish that I had.  The kid's name I do not recall.  

Me, when I was 18/19 years old, believe it or not, I was pretty asexual and for the most part oblivious to the more prurient aspects of male/female relationships.  I just simply didn't think about sex that much when I was a teenager (odd as that may sound to some of you who who are reading this) and so any of that kind of sex-ed, sexual trauma talk etc. at DAYTOP, as far as I was concerned, would have gone in one ear and out the other.  These things were just not a part of my consciousness at the time.  There were DAYTOP females who I was friends with while on second stage, and we'd go to dinner together sometimes, go to AA dances or movies or whatever, but nothing physical ever happened between any of us.

I did not "get" flirting while in DAYTOP and was very socially awkward.  Now that I am 35 I am much, much more socially savvy, adapted, and have vastly improved my skills in reading non-verbal cues, body language, and also in matters pertaining to theory of mind/empathy.

DAYTOP did not know Asperger's or anything about PDD/ASD.  They just called me "weirdo" or "space cadet."  That affected me the most in the long run, I think, that's what's been the most harmful element of my experience with them.  They just weren't equipped for kids like me.  They simply instilled in me a deeply ingrained sense of feeling "abnormal."

And I like your quote about humming the tune, too.  Sort of like "when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail" eh?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 02:10:13 PM by SEKTO »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #294 on: July 05, 2009, 03:31:08 AM »
SEKTO:
Quote from: "SEKTO"
What angers me the most about my time in there, what I resent the most, is the fact that none of these people were in any way, shape, of form properly trained or degreed professional counselors, and had any of them been as such they could have picked up on my PDD, made an appropriate referral to a specialist, and gotten me some real help instead of their soul-warping BMod nonsense.  I'll bet you that none of them knew anything about autism other than what they had seen in Rain Man. As it was, they labelled me a "space cadet" who had eaten too much acid and fried his brain.  "Nothing's wrong with you, you just need to grow up, ya baby.  We don't like the way you are, so stop it or else." is what I was taught, basically.  That's right, the counselors' explanation for why I was that way, was attributed to my eating too much acid.  As it was, I was made to feel broken and "weird," and DAYTOP instilled in me a sense of not liking myself, of not being OK with who I was/am.  And I still struggle with that, of simply being OK with B.  DAYTOP would have been one of the worst kinds of places to put some kid like me or Mike Gomez.
That’s a lot of how their methods were so messed up. They would slap a label on people (even quite literally in the form of a sign to be worn) and that was that. It was always some reductive dismissal such as junkie hyphen this or that.

We were taught to accept this. By then such words were really a reflex.They would  spout a lot rhymey one liners. One size fits all slogans. I don't know if I was even moved to flinch by the time I was told (as was the “family”) that I was toxic. I thanked them for this. It was explained that my being sent upstate was a second chance I was being granted. It’s interesting how the “you don’t know how good you have it here in Daycare” snarls and the ominous threat of being sent up state got repackaged as my opportunity. I was also being made an example of. I'm sure other girls there got the message.

If they for whatever reason eased up on the orgies of tears by the time you did your time then I’m glad, and I hope that continued to get phased out. I’m sure you’re better off having only scant memories of the two you attended.

I hope K.H. got some intervention for her situation and that they didn’t salt her wounds with any of their version of supportive feedback.

Quote from: "SEKTO"
And I like your quote about humming the tune, too.  Sort of like "when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail" eh?
Hmm, not quite.It's not a quote. It's my attempt to describe the subliminal messages in the “old tapes” that become white noise for a while. Then one day you hear it and wonder why am I humming this? Damn,that’s not my theme song.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #295 on: July 05, 2009, 03:31:56 PM »
Well, here's MY theme song.  It's called the Nrsinghadeva Pranama.  Jaya Prabhupada!

http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/nrsimha.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QuyuW_j ... D&index=11

namas te narasimhaya
prahladahlada-dayine
hiranyakashipor vaksaha
shila-tanka-nakhalaye
 
ito nrisimhah parato nrisimho
yato yato yami tato nrisimhah
bahir nrisimho hrdaye nrisimho
nrisimham adim sharanam prapadye
 
tava kara-kamala vare
nakham adbhuta-shringam
dalita-hiranyakashipu-tanu bhrigam
keshava dhrita-narahari-rupa
jaya jagadisha hare
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #296 on: July 05, 2009, 11:44:16 PM »
Quote from: "Inculcated"
We ended up at Halliburton's party. It was Halliburton that sold the Dresser building to Daytop for a dollar.

I imagine that Halliburton had a vested interest far beyond the mere benefit of a tax write-off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #297 on: July 05, 2009, 11:50:08 PM »
SEKTO: want to be my accountabilabuddy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #298 on: July 06, 2009, 01:52:43 AM »
Quote from: "Inculcated"
SEKTO: want to be my accountabilabuddy?

Gladly.   ;)   I'd like that.  Thanks for asking.  It's my privilege.

You know, I've been rethinking the matter of my theme song, and have come to the conclusion that the Pranama is not really the best song that represents me as a person.  That one was from a time in my life when I was immersed in ISKCON, like my Krsna Days Theme.  Good song (prayer), very meaningful to me, but on second thought not very representative of where I'm at now.

Also there's the Rainbow Gathering Taos '95 theme, the mighty Peter Tosh's Downpressor Man:

Irie-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oD63-EJW5Y

Say downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?

oh... along that day

You gonna run to the rocks
The rocks will be falling
When you run to the rocks
The rocks will be falling
When you run to the rocks
More rocks will be falling

oh... along that day

You gonna run to the sea
The sea will be boiling
When you run to the sea
The whole sea will be boiling
When you run to the sea
The sea will be boiling

oh... along that day

Thats why i say downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?

oh... along that day

You gonna run to the lord
Beggin him to hide you
You gonna run to the lord
Beggin him to hide you
You gonna run to the lord
Beggin him to hide you

oh... along that day

So I say downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?


But the song that represents me best, my personal anthem, would have to be Sinatra's That's Life.

Sade's Smooth Operator comes in as a close second.  But that Sade tune was really an Army thing.  Let me explain with a story.

There was this one time in Basic Training (I went through at Ft. Benning, aka Sand Hill) when we were all in formation one afternoon and the Drill Sergrant told us that "every good soldier has a theme song.  What's yours?"  So we were made to go through the formation one by one, in alphabetical order, and announce to the group and sing our individual theme songs.  

Mind you, everybody had to maintain their military bearing throughout this exercise, and nobody was allowed to crack a smile at all, much less laugh; we all had to stand rigid at the position of attention, eyes straight ahead and showing no emotion, and sing our theme songs that represented us as soldiers.  Anybody who laughed or so much as smiled would get dropped, yelled at, and made to do a bunch of pushups while the others were singing.  It was like something twisted out of Full Metal Jacket, but funnier.  When it was my turn, off the top of my head and without giving it much thought, I began singing, with a totally straight face, "He's a smooth operator, a smooooth operatooor, smooth operator, smooooth operatoooor..."  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efdfGeUKXuU

The Drill Sergeant looked at me like I was crazy.  He told me that he could tell I was a real smart guy, and he thought that one day I'd go to college and earn a degree in foolology.  

This one kid chose the Batman theme song as his, and when it was his turn he just busted out with "Dadadadadadadadadadadadada Batmaaan!"  

But all in all, I'd really have to say that Sinatra's That's Life is my true Supreme Theme Song.  That one's really me.  I've travelled from one side of this country to the other on my quest to find Absolute Truth, and I've seen and done a lot of strange stuff.  

I've posted it here before, and now will again.  I love this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVWD482Puvs

That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June.

I said that's life, and as funny as it may seem
Some people get their kicks,
Stompin' on a dream
But I don't let it, let it get me down,
'Cause this fine ol' world it keeps spinning around

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,
A poet, a pawn and a king.
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing:
Each time I find myself, flat on my face,
I pick myself up and get back in the race.

That's life
I tell ya, I can't deny it,
I thought of quitting baby,
But my heart just ain't gonna buy it.
And if I didn't think it was worth one single try,
I'd jump right on a big bird and then I'd fly

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,
A poet, a pawn and a king.
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing:
Each time I find myself laying flat on my face,
I just pick myself up and get back in the race

That's life
That's life and I can't deny it
Many times I thought of cutting out
But my heart won't buy it
But if there's nothing shakin' come this here july
I'm gonna roll myself up in a big ball and die
My, My


Also, just because i think it's such a good set of songs, I'll post this live version of Jimi Hendrix performing Hey Baby (Land of the New Rising Sun) and In From The Storm live at the legendary Rainbow Bridge concert, Maui, on July 30, 1970.  Freaking great stuff.  This really smokes.  Gives me goosebumps every time.   :rocker:   Dig this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpRsgzURnvU
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SEKTO

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Re: DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
« Reply #299 on: July 06, 2009, 04:25:29 PM »
Back in the day I used to listen to a lot of reggae, and have been listening to it today, revisiting what Dylan called "My Back Pages."  

Peter Tosh, Jimmy Cliff, and Third World were and are some of my favorites.  Old-school stuff.  Old Wailers too, of course.

Bob Marley's solo stuff is OK, and I give him much respect, but Tosh wrote a lot of well-known Marley tunes anyway.  I much prefer solo Tosh for his militant edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia6Tvpj6dPw

The soundtrack to The Harder They Come is one of the very best reggae albums of all time IMO.  My two favorite Tosh albums are Legalize It and Equal Rights.  All brilliant stuff.  

Irie Monday afternoon meditations   :dose:    :

One good thing about music, when it hits you (you feel no pain)
Oh, oh, I say, one good thing about music, when it hits you (you feel no pain)
Hit me with music, hit me with music now


Bob Marley, Trenchtown Rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j6uXOfgWz8

And I keep on fighting for the things I want
Though I know that when you're dead you can't
But I'd rather be a free man in my grave
Than living as a puppet or a slave


Jimmy Cliff, The Harder They Come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjtXfkHCEkY

So Sinatra's That's Life would have to my Supeme Theme, but Jimmy Cliff and Peter Tosh would be, like, the background music to the Soundtrack of My Life.  Oh yeah.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »