KHK (Cincinnati) has freakin' CLOSED!!!!!

[psy]

Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.

Yeah, but check that with your head.  There has to be a balance, and sometimes holding back a little in certain areas can produce more of an effect in the long run.  Cold calculation has it's benefits.  In think you and WdTony could both learn a little form each other.

Will you two shut the fuck up anyway with this bitching, or take it to PMs.  it sounds like Marriage counseling.  We're all ultimately on the same side, here, so far as I can see, and standing together is a lot better than standing apart.  As DP points out, PFC ain't dead.... only KHK is down for now.  Protesting almost definately had something to do with that, which is why it should be continued, but it's easier to do that when we're not fighting amongst ourselves.

You both have good points, but try to zoom out, see the big picture: the more arguing and less protesting, the longer kids will suffer in the programs.  Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done.  There will always be people who enjoy the limelight.  That ain't necessarily a bad thing, they usually make good PR people.  Try to use each other's differences rather than trying to change one-another.

Ps:  I probably sound like a motivational speaker since Obama is winning and i'm real giddy about that... anyhoo...

[Deprogrammed]

Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.

Yeah, but check that with your head.  There has to be a balance, and sometimes holding back a little in certain areas can produce more of an effect in the long run.  Cold calculation has it's benefits.  In think you and WdTony could both learn a little form each other.

Will you two shut the fuck up anyway with this bitching, or take it to PMs.  it sounds like Marriage counseling.  We're all ultimately on the same side, here, so far as I can see, and standing together is a lot better than standing apart.  As DP points out, PFC ain't dead.... only KHK is down for now.  Protesting almost definately had something to do with that, which is why it should be continued, but it's easier to do that when we're not fighting amongst ourselves.

You both have good points, but try to zoom out, see the big picture: the more arguing and less protesting, the longer kids will suffer in the programs.  Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done.  There will always be people who enjoy the limelight.  That ain't necessarily a bad thing, they usually make good PR people.  Try to use each other's differences rather than trying to change one-another.

Ps:  I probably sound like a motivational speaker since Obama is winning and i'm real giddy about that... anyhoo...

Psy,
I know that your intentions are probably good here, but you really do not know the whole of this, and should probably not put yourself in the middle here, and please do not tell me to shut the fuck up. I never have told you to shut the fuck up. thank you. BTW, psy I have no trouble balancing anything in my head...why don't you ask Mr. Tony if he does?
-DP

[Che Gookin]

Oi vey..

 Sometimes people just need to get some stuff out in the open. Now to me the wide world of the internet might be a to bit open, but this is the place it went down so there you go. I'm not going to take a side on this publicly other than to say that there are plenty of places to protest and the both of you should have no problems inflicting some Osama/healesque style protestin' or Deprogrammed Protesting 101 on them without having to be around each other.

Now sometimes personalities clash and sometimes they mesh. Whatever hot dogging for the camera or freezing like a deer in the headlights when a staffer approached someone that went on is in the past. I suggest yall pick your targets and avoid each other for awhile. Once you gain some breathing space maybe just agree to disagree and let bygones be bygones.

And Deprogrammed you know I'm always around to listen to you when you need to talk or want to run an idea by me. Tony.. once you've stopped being such a paranoid little feller you are more than welcome to email me when you are ready to. Let me know in advance so I can block your email address.

That's all for me.

peace suckahs!

[Bandit73]

Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done.

I refuse to hog all the credit. I'm proud of what I did, but everyone deserves a little bit of credit.

And I'm going to do my best to keep an eye on the KHK situation.

[Anonymous]

So who in your crew can make it up there to Indy PFC this Friday? Do you know anyone... hell, does anyone know anyone who could hand out some fliers or hold a sign or something along those lines up there this Friday?

If you guys could get something going, that would be awesome! History in the making...

Officials upstairs are reviewing the call:

The call:

KHK is not a valid name for the PFC program anymore, so after all this BS on here, technically, the trade name Kids Helping Kids (at least in Ohio) is dead. Small consolation though since,  PFC is still treating the kids from its Ohio program which used the KHK trade name for over 2 years. You can bury the name now...

[wdtony]

Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.
Also, on another note, as for me personally I have never expected any glory from this and I don't think that the elders(meaning the ones that have actually been at this for years before you) of the fight against programs group want glory either. I think that all of us(not including you) want the abuse to stop and just don't want misinformation to keep getting out there, and particularly not from you. When you say to me "I don't like being interviewed, but repeatedly step in front of me with reporters, that says something different to me about you. When you blatently interrupt me when I am trying to get information out of a programmie, and I ask you to stop, and then you do it again within the next few sentences,  it also says to me something different about you. I heard you on the phone with that supposed survivor in khk's parking lot the other day quote the exact same line that was on that misinformation website that you and Angela obviously have orchestrated. That exact same line was "yeah we have been protesting khk for nearly a year now." You only corrected yourself to that guy, because I asked you to.
How am I or anyone supposed to think anything different about you, your motives....etc when you act like that? I just want to know how you expect any of us not to think what we have been thinking. Also, by the way here is a little excerpt from your last post: As for the rest, I can see your points but I don't have time to dissect them and explain everything. If there is some kind of problem with someone not giving credit to someone else, I am probably at fault. I mean, you know who you are and what you've done. I really respect that stuff BIG-TIME but I am not going to blow sunshine up someone's ass.
The point here being that you say in one breath that you respect us bigtime, but clearly you do not when you follow it up in the next breath with "I am not going to blow sunshine up someones ass". I have news for you Mr. Know-it-all (Primus), I don't want or need your sunshine I have my own, and so do the rest of the elders. I tried and tried to reach you politely, and nicely many times about this kind of thing. I was trying to help you so that this would not happen. But you will not listen to reason.
You already knew that you and I were finished the night we traveled back from Indiana, and if you didn't well, then that makes you blind. But, aside from that all anyone else ever wanted from you was the same respect that we have been giving you for "nearly a year" now. If you cannot handle respecting others then maybe you should just think on that for awhile.
sincerely,
-DP
P.S. PFC is not closed...KHK is not closed just switched locations....yes it is great that they are not five minutes from me anymore, but what I am really concerned with is those poor kids in there, and the fact that they are now once again uprooted from everything they have ever known, and made to deal with program bullshit again and again while under that same stress of being up-rooted.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I do give you credit for posting as yourself.

I had no idea there were "Elders" and that you were one. Actually, we are the same age, and we are adults now. Elders....that's a funny word. Reminds me of Lord Of The Rings or something. This is starting to reming me of Dungeons and Dragons but I quit playing that when I was 12.

 My memories of what you have described are a bit different than what you have written. For instance, I never jumped in front of you. The reporter in Indiana said she wanted to talk to me, so I talked to her and then you did. I don't see a problem with my actions here and I certainly didn't jump in front of anyone. And I do hate being interviewed but I realized that getting the word out is the only way to bring public awareness. It makes me nervous, you should be thanking me instead of attacking me for it. Who's side are you on anyway?

 As for the girl in Indy (as you have reffered to as a programmie, which she was not), here is what actually happened: , As you were talking to her, I remained silent until "she asked me" a question. I thought it would be impolite to not respond so I answered her and you got angry. Then "she asked me" another question and I answered again and once more you got angry. How is that disrespectful?  Keep in mind here the whole "she asked me" thing. I think you should have paid more attention and you might not be so angry.

I respect people for what they have done, sometimes including how long they have been fighting programs. However, I do not respect people who treat me with disrespect just because I am new to the scene or because I get more attention. I think we need more attention brought to the issue of programs and "I have to use my experience because that is all I have". If it upsets you that I get attention, I don't really care. Please get over it. I am in this to take down programs and not to play little games as to who's who and worry who needs a little more coddling.

To insinuate that I don't want to stop abuse is insulting and outrageous. For some reason, you have hated me from early on. But now you have resorted to trying to assault my character and that is unacceptable. This is mainly because what you state is not true, whether you are basing your ideas on assumptions, misunderstandings or outright lies. I have tried to work with you over the past year for the benefit of closing programs but I realize that it isn't worth it.

Good luck in fighting against programs, although I have a great distaste for you and how you treat others, I hate programs more than almost anything else. I don't foresee myself ever working with you again but if you do anything detrimental to programs, I will be very content.

KHK is dead.   :poison:

[Froderik]

I'm goin' down to Pathway
Gonna have myself a time
Friendly faces everywhere
Humble folks without temptation
Goin' down to Pathway
Gonna leave my woes behind
Ample parking day or night
People shouting "Howdy, neighbor!"
Heading on up to Pathway
Gonna see if I can't unwind
I like girls with big fat titties, I like girls with big vaginas
Come on down to Pathway and meet some friends of mine

[hurrikayne]

KHK is dead.

I'm not interested in interjecting myself into the middle of a battle here, so please understand this is a FRIENDLY reminder... "Rebekah" was technically closed when I was dropped off in Corpus Christi, and remained "closed" for the duration of my stay there, and many years thereafter.  A program ain't 'dead' until the money dries up.

[wdtony]

KHK is dead.

I'm not interested in interjecting myself into the middle of a battle here, so please understand this is a FRIENDLY reminder... "Rebekah" was technically closed when I was dropped off in Corpus Christi, and remained "closed" for the duration of my stay there, and many years thereafter.  A program ain't 'dead' until the money dries up.

What do you hope to accomplish by posting this?  I think you have wasted my time and yours.

KHK is dead and gone. Be happy about it. It's old news now. Focus on the future.

[wdtony]

We are re-grouping and will set sites on the next program to expose and close. We are patient and methodical. We will implement a course of action when it is agreed upon. We will create a strategy and make changes as we learn. We will win because losing is not an option for us. We are passionate and use this to fuel our resolve. We are also exploring every avenue to expose the industry as a whole.

Our objective: To close programs as effectively and efficiently as possible. Also to create viable ideas about fighting programs for others by examining our successes and our failures recently and in the past.

Programs can and have been shut down. Things were more difficult in the past but more recently there is an ongoing Congressional Investigation about the "troubled teen racket", the economy is in the toilet hurting program's money making abilities, stronger communication through the internet, rising awareness about what programs really are, the hope of  Democratic powers where there were once corrupt Republicans supporting programs and many people around the country becoming active in the fight to get these programs shut down. There are also many good things happening in the courts and investigations behind the scenes that I am not at liberty to discuss here at this time.

Due to what I have listed above and more, I see big opportunity in the next few years against the troubled teen industry. I have only been at this for about a year but I see things clearly and my biggest hope is that more and more survivors and parents will come forward and make their voices be heard by protesting and putting pressure on lawmakers and the government, in addition to lawsuits and criminal charges being filed.

Believing we can shut down programs will not accomplish this feat alone, but I think this has to be the first step. I firmly believe it will happen.

[Anonymous]

Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago.  You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.

[wdtony]

Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago.  You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.

I know a little more about Monica and Dana than you think. For someone who asks me to get my facts straight, you sure seem to be doing a lot of assuming about what is happening in the old KHK/STRAIGHT building.

Instead of attacking me, why don't you write some ideas here on how you think we can shut down PFC and then follow through with a plan.

This is a big step, and not a nightmare unless you are with a program. It is a nightmare for them.

You can bark orders at me all that you want. But you are disrespectful and a little narrow-minded, so you'll excuse me if I don't respond in a way that pleases you, whoever you are.

I like this game of bitching back and forth on Fornits. It took me a while to figure out how to play but it really does get your mind off of the real world for a while. Cool.

KHK is dead  :poison:

[Deprogrammed]

Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago.  You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.

I know a little more about Monica and Dana than you think. For someone who asks me to get my facts straight, you sure seem to be doing a lot of assuming about what is happening in the old KHK/STRAIGHT building.

Instead of attacking me, why don't you write some ideas here on how you think we can shut down PFC and then follow through with a plan.

This is a big step, and not a nightmare unless you are with a program. It is a nightmare for them.

You can bark orders at me all that you want. But you are disrespectful and a little narrow-minded, so you'll excuse me if I don't respond in a way that pleases you, whoever you are.

I like this game of bitching back and forth on Fornits. It took me a while to figure out how to play but it really does get your mind off of the real world for a while. Cool.

KHK is dead  :poison:

Hey Tony,
Just thought I would let ye know that "disowned" may not be who ye are thinking it is. It surely is not me. I already said what I had to say to you, and I am done because I already said it.
-DP

[Deprogrammed]

I'm goin' down to Pathway
Gonna have myself a time
Friendly faces everywhere
Humble folks without temptation
Goin' down to Pathway
Gonna leave my woes behind
Ample parking day or night
People shouting "Howdy, neighbor!"
Heading on up to Pathway
Gonna see if I can't unwind
I like girls with big fat titties, I like girls with big vaginas
Come on down to Pathway and meet some friends of mine

 :rocker:  :jamin:  :rofl:  :rasta:  .....Gotta love Primus, they rock!
Very very funny- Frod

-DP

[Anonymous]

Well Mr WDTony,
When publicly announcing news or updates or situations involving pfc or any other program or situation, I make every attempt I can to stick with the facts. But, from time to time and being human, impatient and anally retentive, I am prone to mistakes. I am also able to make corrections if it is going to help resolve issues and protect others. This dead program bullshit is a very sensitive issue since the program is NOT gone in Ohio but you're tellin people on and off the board that it is. Sorry man, but that's the facts. I thought we could work together, but it is appearing to be not the case. As far as this bullshit bitchinshit goes, I didn't even start it and it's like who can you work with anymore? Nobody? Only people you can impress or fool? Come on dude, this is insane. I told you in that last  email I sent yesterday that survivors just can't work together for any measurable length of time without shit like this or something similar happening. That's not disrespectful, that's a fact. I challenge any survivor out there to prove me wrong on that... btw. Hit me with your best shot... I don't like it any more than anyone else. Survivors know better than anyone else what goes on inside these places. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!! LOL... I mean, how many times have I and other people said or thought that? Jeezoweezo. Backbiting, name calling, hiding shit, whatever... It's probably a big reason people don't get together more than they do, or join organizations or contribute money to these causes. I mean, there's no law that requires them to, and this is still America so if that's the way it is, then deal with it. If you try to take over someone else's work and twist it around to suit your agenda, you can expect to have people getting pissed off and wham, here we are now. They slipped out the kids but they still get the business. Face it, these people trained us well. The new guy always gets the shit the worst, LOL. It's par for the course as far as I am concerned. How can you tell me something else if I've already personally experienced it differently? How willing do you expect me to be to accept your naivety or lack of experience in this line of work? At what point should I step in and point out something is wrong and how are you going to take it? I'd say you take it really bad. Efforts by many folks are already years into this and some of what you are doing is making it look like we are starting over from scratch. But we're disrespecting you? Get real. Everyone who gives a shit about this cause has to realize this... or at least suspect it. If not, then they really don't care and that's fine too, btw.

To everyone...

Please, if anyone sees how things should, could be different, please let me know...
My suggestion in that email to WDTony was that we should set up something like a "The PFC Commission" that would focus on this program in a 100% transparent way for everyone involved first-hand, including having some rules and guidelines regarding its operations. It would not be sponsored by any particular organization, but information retained by organizations could be used to help its efforts. I have yet to hear a response. How the hell else can anything be accomplished in the shortest period of time where everyone stays friends or together on this issue? Statements from survivors, documents, facts, studies, findings, reports, etc. These are what count in court. That reminds me, I have been unsuccessfully sued by Bob Lichfield and Thayer Learning Center, threatened several other times by program leaders, lawyers, etc... I like to think that I know what I am talking about and I would appreciate it if people would just relax and work together.   I never claimed to be perfect or have ALL the answers. Terri Nissley's breath really didn't stink, and I see that Monica stuck around Milford, I apologize if I offended them...  :rofl:                

 jumpin off the :soapbox:  now...

My name is William, btw, I have a habit of posting as several non-repeating screen names here at Fornits. I enjoy that as it too helps distract me from reality, LOL Thank you Fornits folks  :cheers: