Why spend a year in a program when it can be done in a week

[TheWho]

No, you incompetent wretch.

Jane!! you ignorant slut!!

Proof a “program” works is not affected by reports of abuse in that “program.” Scientific validity of a treatment is not dependant on its potential practitioners.

To illustrate: it has been proved chemotherapy works. People have been abused by chemo dispensers, but that doesn’t disprove chemo’s effectiveness.

Thank you.  You are the first person I have spoken to that can see the abuse comes from the individuals and is not a reflection of the industry as a whole.  You would not believe how many people have trouble with this.

On the other hand, not ONE, not even ONE program has EVER been documented by scientific methodology and proofs as doing ANYTHING but HARMING participants.

There have been studies conducted in the past which have shown programs to be effective and not harmful to anyone.

Why in 60 years has not ONE program ever been proved effective?

Maybe because you get all your information from fornits.  I agree that there have not been many studies that I have read.  But there isn’t any evidence that these programs are ineffective or abusive either.

Because the individuals that run these programs are disciples of the Synanon, Scientology, and EST cults and their mutated reincarnations, and they are quite aware that their rendition centers do nothing but hurt their victims, and so not only fail to provide proof of their scam’s effectiveness, but fail to even keep records of which helpless individuals they “treat.”
Youth disappear into these facilities, many never to return, like morning dew in the afternoon. Predators like Mel Sembler, Mel Wasserman, Steve Laird, Rudy Bentz, Jill Bentz, Guy Bonnano, Patrick Stambusky, Russ DeckerTim Brace Mike Desisto know that physically sexually, psychologically torturing young adults for years is not beneficial, and that leaving a trail that would lead investigators to mass graves would not assist their scam.

Woah, scarry stuff.

That’s why even YOU, their latest, least effective attempt to hide their crimes, cannot refer to even ONE program that has been scientifically proved to do anything but harm it’s participants.

There was some research done awhile back by someone named Shapiro out of one of the ivy league schools who conducted a study of TBS and found it to be effective.. non abusive.  It is a good read, I will try to find a link.  There also was a Pulitzer prize winner who spent a year and a half inside a TBS and reported on the daily events and followed a peer group from beginning to end.  He wrote a book on his experience.  You wont read about it here on fornits because they don’t want you to know about this stuff.  You will only have access to the negative information about programs here

Oh, every single school I ever went to never abused anyone. In programs it’s not the staff that abuses the kids, it’s the program itself. Programs are systems or torture and brainwashing like how Chinese Prisons “treating” practitioners of Fulan Gong are systems of torture and brainwashing. Torture does not stem from the individual staff, it is the “treatment” itself.

Sorry Cant agree there, I have been inside of programs, talked to people who went there, worked there, graduated from them, wrote books on them, conducted research etc. and no sign of any torture , brainwashing.  (Well, maybe a little on the financial end of the business but it is undocumented)

Here’s one of my schools :Kendall High. No one was ever abused by that school. Feel free to look it up and disprove me.

So in the history of that school, not one student was ever hazed, ridiculed by a teacher or peer, forced to run laps by a gym teacher, embarrassed publically, humiliated, forced to go to group events.  If you think that to be true you are easily fooled.



...

[Anonymous]

Does anyone else question why theWho spends all of his days and nights posting on fornits?  It seems very strange to me for a parent to spend so much time countering the testimony of and endless stream of abuse victims that come through fornits at any given time. When all his posts are deleted, I wonder if he will feel like he wasted his time? Or was pushing people's buttons for sociopathic fun all he ever wanted?

[Froderik]

Does anyone else question why theWho spends all of his days and nights posting on fornits?

Yes.

[Ursus]

Does anyone else question why theWho spends all of his days and nights posting on fornits?  It seems very strange to me for a parent to spend so much time countering the testimony of and endless stream of abuse victims that come through fornits at any given time. When all his posts are deleted, I wonder if he will feel like he wasted his time? Or was pushing people's buttons for sociopathic fun all he ever wanted?

I think it is pretty safe to assume that the interest is primarily economic. Whether it is true or not that "he" is also a parent, is of but marginal importance.

Although I am sure "he" derives some sociopathological fun out of all this, were he a true sociopath, he would have "lost it" by now.

[Anonymous]

There have been studies conducted in the past which have shown programs to be effective and not harmful to anyone.

[citation required]

But there isn’t any evidence that these programs are ineffective or abusive either.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 001518.htm

http://psychobulletin.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssion.html

THERAPY

Family therapy may be helpful if family conflict is contributing to the depression. Support from family or teachers to help with school problems may also be needed. Occasionally, hospitalization in a psychiatric unit may be required for individuals with severe depression, or if they are at risk of suicide.

Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."

These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.

Depressed teens who act out may also become involved with the criminal justice system. Parents are often advised not to intervene, but to "let them experience consequences."

Unfortunately, this can also harm teens through exposure to more deviant peers and reduction in educational opportunities. A better solution is to get the best possible legal advice and search for treatment on your own, which gives parents more control over techniques used and options.

Though a large percentage of teens in the criminal justice system have mental disorders like depression, few juvenile prisons, "boot camps" or other "alternative to prison" programs provide adequate treatment.


http://consensus.nih.gov/2004/2004Youth ... 23html.htm

The evidence indicates that “scare tactics” don’t work and there is some evidence that they may make the problem worse rather than simply not working. One of the hazards of the juvenile court system is the impact of having a record on the child’s subsequent life course. Such evidence as there is indicates that group detention centers, boot camps, and other “get tough” programs can provide an opportunity for delinquent youth to amplify negative effects on each other. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reviewed evidence that indicates that laws increasing the ease of transferring juveniles to the adult judicial system are counterproductive and lead to greater violence in the juveniles moving through the adult systems without deterring juveniles in the general population from violent crime.

In other fields, it has been shown that identifying children as being at risk has its own hazards. Labeling a child as deficient in some respect may lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Researchers must be certain that similar problems do not happen here.

Ineffective programs may not harm the participants directly (although some do) but they may have an important toxic effect nonetheless; namely the “opportunity cost” of funds misspent on an unsuitable program that might have been spent on an effective one.

There was some research done awhile back by someone named Shapiro out of one of the ivy league schools who conducted a study of TBS and found it to be effective.. non abusive.

You know damn well it was a grad student's paper.....not clinical research.

 

There also was a Pulitzer prize winner who spent a year and a half inside a TBS and reported on the daily events and followed a peer group from beginning to end.  He wrote a book on his experience.  You wont read about it here on fornits because they don’t want you to know about this stuff.  You will only have access to the negative information about programs here

David Marcus' book is what you're referring to and you know damn well that he is a PAID CONSULTANT for the program he profiled.

Sorry Cant agree there, I have been inside of programs, talked to people who went there, worked there, graduated from them, wrote books on them, conducted research etc. and no sign of any torture , brainwashing.  

Liar.  You have NEVER been inside a program the way a kid has.  You have NEVER experienced the quack "therapy" that is practiced inside them.  You've been presented with plenty of evidence of torture.  You just flat refuse to accept it.

[TheWho]

So it seems we go round and round!!  We all know there has been research and books written that support the fact that programs are effective but the information is not accepted because it is not negative enough.  

Dave Marcus was working for a newspaper and researched and wrote the book independently.  The same with Shapiro.  She researched a TBS and wrote a research paper on it and found the kids benefitted from their stay as did Marcus.  If either one of these sources had turned out negative they would have made the book list or been sticked at the top.

We all know this.

[TheWho]

Liar. You have NEVER been inside a program the way a kid has. You have NEVER experienced the quack "therapy" that is practiced inside them. You've been presented with plenty of evidence of torture. You just flat refuse to accept it.
more bullshit

Ah, But kids haven’t seen the inside from my perspective either!!  You are misinformed again.  The therapist was independent of the program and was certified  to practice and reports back to the child therapist at home to review progress.  So again you know nothing about these places.

I have read about kids getting hurt and have told you about kids who have done extremely well.  Why are not the success stories spoken about here?  Something to hide?

Hmmmm.

[Anonymous]

 We all know there has been research and books written that support the fact that programs are effective but the information is not accepted because it is not negative enough.  

No, "we" don't.  You keep asserting that, but funny how you don't provide any citation for such absurdity.

Dave Marcus was working for a newspaper and researched and wrote the book independently.

Dave Marcus (why didn't you name him earlier, hmmmm?) is a paid shill for the program he profiled.


 

The same with Shapiro.  She researched a TBS and wrote a research paper on it and found the kids benefitted from their stay

You cite that as clinical research, which it clearly is not.

If either one of these sources had turned out negative they would have made the book list or been sticked at the top.

We all know this.

.


"We" know nothing of the kind.  You assume as much.

[Anonymous]

Ha,Ha,Ha, you all make the same argument. Wahhhh... I was abused. Wahhhh... my parents payed to have me abused. Just like my daughter, you are all a bunch of cry babies. You post studies and evidence and think people are dumb enough to read it, not all of us are elitists who read studies and books. If the program tells me something, that's good enough for me. I'm going to tell you what I told my daughter, go cry about it to someone who cares.



...

[Anonymous]

Ha,Ha,Ha, you all make the same argument. Wahhhh... I was abused. Wahhhh... my parents payed to have me abused. Just like my daughter, you are all a bunch of cry babies. You post studies and evidence and think people are dumb enough to read it, not all of us are elitists who read studies and books. If the program tells me something, that's good enough for me. I'm going to tell you what I told my daughter, go cry about it to someone who cares.



...

Oh lovely.  The Who imposter is back.  


The sad but telling thing is, it's getting hard to tell the real thing from the trolls.  Same as with Tina Fey and Sarah Palin.

[Froderik]

Anyone who would make a sincere effort to pose as TheWho must be bored as fuck.

[TheWho]

So we have established a few things today:

1. TBS's are clearly safer than the public sector by orders of magnitude.

2. We have brought forth evidence that TBS's are non abusive in nature via a Pulitzer prized novelist who spent a year and a half inside a TBS writing about day to day issues (which, since no one can dispute the facts, many are trying to convince us he is on the take and writes for pay off money).
 
3.  We have a research paper which was conducted independently by a graduate student working on her PhD.  She found the TBS's to be non abusive and effective also.

These are just ones I randomly found.  There are probably hundreds of more sources out there… but you wont find them on fornits I can assure you.

As far as evidence to support the theory that the industry is abusive we have come up empty so far, but we are still waiting I am sure some research will surface soon.

[Froderik]

So we have established a few things today:

1. TBS's are clearly safer than the public sector by orders of magnitude.

2. We have brought forth evidence that TBS's are non abusive in nature via a Pulitzer prized novelist who spent a year and a half inside a TBS writing about day to day issues (which, since no one can dispute the facts, many are trying to convince us he is on the take and writes for pay off money).
 
3.  We have a research paper which was conducted independently by a graduate student working on her PhD.  She found the TBS's to be non abusive and effective also.

These are just ones I randomly found.  There are probably hundreds of more sources out there… but you wont find them on fornits I can assure you.

As far as evidence to support the theory that the industry is abusive we have come up empty so far, but we are still waiting I am sure some research will surface soon.

Admins- Do not argue with him, just click delete!

Trust me- if you do this, he'll eventually stop posting.

[Anonymous]

1) The Who sites questionable studies in a lame attempt to back up his ASSertions.

2) The Who has no fucking idea what he is talking about----I mean, when did you last hear about some kids dying at a public school because their teacher kept them from getting medical attention, beat them to death, or deprived them of food or water while making them endure sub-zero temperatures without adequate clothing or shelter?

3) The Who is suffering from syphylitic lesions on his brain, making him susceptible to delusions.

4) The Who can type pretty fast, even while sucking Miller Newton's dick.

5) I am bored enough to respond to Who's bullshit.

[Froderik]

4) The Who can type pretty fast, even while sucking Miller Newton's dick.