Why spend a year in a program when it can be done in a week

[Guest]

I believe any parent who feels their child is in danger would call the authorities, pull their child immediately.  I know I would.

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What?

So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.

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Huh.  Sounds like you're very confused.  How would you know your child is in danger if you use that logic to "weigh credibility of statements"?  Parents aren't allowed to see their kids for a considerable length of time in some programs, they only have short phone calls.  You say one thing to look like you give a shit and aren't a soulless bitch, but ^^^^^^^^see above.  You're going to gamble with  your kids well being and assume the actions of a line staff goon you've never seen are professional.  Moron.  Quit spouting your reckless shit, some parent as dumb as you might take your advice.  Be accountable for your posts you most pungent cunt.

That tells you all you need to know about the who's understanding of how captives in programs are treated. Note: therapy isn't something so "intolerably horrible" "actuating little or no hope" that you'd make a "final, ultimate, dangerous" attempt to escape it, but prison and torture is. Yes, I'd say "programs" (rentable gulags) make kids truly desperate and they'd do anything to escape it, even commit suicide like L.C., or J, from cedu, the torture cult that Lon Woodbury and Steve Laird oversaw

[Guest]

Huh. Sounds like you're very confused. How would you know your child is in danger if you use that logic to "weigh credibility of statements"? Parents aren't allowed to see their kids for a considerable length of time in some programs, they only have short phone calls.

It only takes a few minutes to rape or kill a child.  It could happen on a school bus, walking home.  I think what a parent needs to do is visit the program campus, speak to other parents who had kids attend and then base their decision on some informed data.


 

You say one thing to look like you give a shit and aren't a soulless bitch, but ^^^^^^^^see above. You're going to gamble with your kids well being and assume the actions of a line staff goon you've never seen are professional. Moron. Quit spouting your reckless shit, some parent as dumb as you might take your advice. Be accountable for your posts you most pungent cunt.

I have been very consistent.  You on the other hand don’t seem very professional or concerned with any of these kids welfare or you would be helping instead of blocking any kids from getting help.

@dfdf:

Please direct me to one medically sound, peer review study that has proved the effectiveness of any program. Please, please do that.

Why not try to provide evidence or a study the concludes attending a public school is a safer environment that a TBS.  Try to convince a parent that their child will not be harmed on the bus or shot at school or bullied.

If you cant do that then provide me one public school in which a child was never abused.



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Who you were unwilling or unable to name one "program" that is helpful, and you were unable or unwilling to provide scientific proof that one program provides medically valid treatment.

thank you. you've resolved your "controversy" for us.
Just want to add, this isn't the same who that normally posts Lou Woodbury or whoever is who's regular mouthpeice. The prose style and approach is totally different

[TheWho]

Who you were unwilling or unable to name one "program" that is helpful, and you were unable or unwilling to provide scientific proof that one program provides medically valid treatment.

thank you. you've resolved your "controversy" for us.
Just want to add, this isn't the same who that normally posts Lou Woodbury or whoever is who's regular mouthpeice. The prose style and approach is totally different

Kind a thought you would back off once I asked you for evidence.  Based on your logic every public school is a columbine waiting to happen.  Would you want your kid verbally abused by a killer and then shot?  Look at the body count?  Try saying public school is safer than a TBS to those kids who died.

Sdgs,You are twisted and sick and must be an abuser yourself to think that way.  How can you just put your kid on a bus and drive happily to work.  They are unfit parents all of them, just shipping their kids off like that to potentially be raped by a teacher or killed by fellow students.



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[Anonymous]

Posted almost 7 hours ago, link here:

Ha,Ha,Ha you have been here for awhile!! Remember that guy who claimed he was duct taped from head to toe and then carried down to the ocean during a monsoon and thrown in!!! Talk about trying to get attention. Looking back now I think if he toned his story down a little and told us he was forced to carry wood around or study for hours on end he would have got a few people to believe him. But I do think that is the overall classic fabricated story I have heard here.

Posted a little over 2 hours ago, link here:

So I am not laughing at the kid who says he was wrapped in duct tape from head to toe and then thrown into the ocean during the height of a typhoon, I am laughing at you for believing it and taking it at face value and then rejecting the story of a child who comes here to tell everyone how the program they attended changed their life for the better. You are too involved in this to be able to step back and see it for yourself.

So.....WHICH is it, huh?

Posted about 15 minutes ago, see above:

I have been very consistent.

Yes. He/she laughs.

[Anonymous]

It only takes a few minutes to rape or kill a child.  It could happen on a school bus, walking home.  

Well.  You're paying the program to keep them safe, aren't you?  You're saying the risk of a school bus ride or walking down a public street is the same as the risk in a program?  How can you compare what is supposed to be a structured, secure environment with 24/7 oversight to the horrors of the bad old outside world?  Man, I hope no guests read your imbecilic posts and leave before someone points out why you're a cretin.

You on the other hand don’t seem very professional

That's because I'm not a professional.  Thanks for reminding me that you are.

[Guest]

Who you were unwilling or unable to name one "program" that is helpful, and you were unable or unwilling to provide scientific proof that one program provides medically valid treatment.

thank you. you've resolved your "controversy" for us.
Just want to add, this isn't the same who that normally posts Lou Woodbury or whoever is who's regular mouthpeice. The prose style and approach is totally different

Kind a thought you would back off once I asked you for evidence.  Based on your logic every public school is a columbine waiting to happen.  Would you want your kid verbally abused by a killer and then shot?  Look at the body count?  Try saying public school is safer than a TBS to those kids who died.

Sdgs,You are twisted and sick and must be an abuser yourself to think that way.  How can you just put your kid on a bus and drive happily to work.  They are unfit parents all of them, just shipping their kids off like that to potentially be raped by a teacher or killed by fellow students.



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You're carrying on a "conversation" with a couple different people, torturer, murderer. I never said public school is safer than a TBS (they are, though, in the way public school is safer than Auschwitz or Abu Gharib)

 I see you continue to evade naming even ONE program that's effective and non-abusive, i see you continue to be unable to produce ONE peer reviewed scientifically valid study proving and "program" is effective.

As one needs proof to assert a medical treatment as valid, we've settled that no "program" is therapeutic, or can be considered treatment.

Thanks, new who. You are less competent at spinning for the cult than the last who, youth murderer.

[Guest]

Who you were unwilling or unable to name one "program" that is helpful, and you were unable or unwilling to provide scientific proof that one program provides medically valid treatment.

thank you. you've resolved your "controversy" for us.
Just want to add, this isn't the same who that normally posts Lou Woodbury or whoever is who's regular mouthpeice. The prose style and approach is totally different

Kind a thought you would back off once I asked you for evidence.  Based on your logic every public school is a columbine waiting to happen.  Would you want your kid verbally abused by a killer and then shot?  Look at the body count?  Try saying public school is safer than a TBS to those kids who died.

Sdgs,You are twisted and sick and must be an abuser yourself to think that way.  How can you just put your kid on a bus and drive happily to work.  They are unfit parents all of them, just shipping their kids off like that to potentially be raped by a teacher or killed by fellow students.



...

You're carrying on a "conversation" with a couple different people, torturer, murderer. I never said public school is safer than a TBS (they are, though, in the way public school is safer than Auschwitz or Abu Gharib)

 I see you continue to evade naming even ONE program that's effective and non-abusive, i see you continue to be unable to produce ONE peer reviewed scientifically valid study proving ONE "program" is effective.

As one needs proof to assert a medical treatment as valid, we've settled that no "program" is therapeutic, or can be considered treatment.

Thanks, new who. You are less competent at spinning for the cult than the last who, youth murderer.

[TheWho]

Discusted wrote:

Well. You're paying the program to keep them safe, aren't you?

Paying either way, public school isn’t free

You're saying the risk of a school bus ride or walking down a public street is the same as the risk in a program?

You need to weigh each risk.  Many here on fornits believe TBS’s to be less safe than public school.  I believe differently.

How can you compare what is supposed to be a structured, secure environment with 24/7 oversight to the horrors of the bad old outside world?

You just did.  One is secure and the other is not.  That has been my point all along and I have provided data , in the past, to support my position.

Man, I hope no guests read your imbecilic posts and leave before someone points out why you're a cretin.

well, that is thoughtful, I guess, but but unlike you I am more concerned with getting balanced information to parents.



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[TheWho]

ghf Wrte:

You're carrying on a "conversation" with a couple different people, torturer, murderer. I never said public school is safer than a TBS (they are, though, in the way public school is safer than Auschwitz or Abu Gharib)

I am torturer the other guy is murderer, I believe.  But it is good to see you have a sense of humor.  You wouldn’t believe how many here have a stick up their ass half the time..... Abu Gharib LOL.

I see you continue to evade naming even ONE program that's effective and non-abusive, i see you continue to be unable to produce ONE peer reviewed scientifically valid study proving and "program" is effective.

Its impossible, all that needs to happen is some kid comes out and says they were yelled at and then that school/TBS/RTC will be branded abusive.  You haven’t been around here too long.  Stick around you will see what I mean.  Name a public school that is not abusive!!  Ha,Ha,Ha see what I mean?  There are tens of thousands of them in the US and I am sure no one could name even one..  

As one needs proof to assert a medical treatment as valid, we've settled that no "program" is therapeutic, or can be considered treatment.

Conclusions are great and I am happy for you.  Although I have seen the bigger picture and the successes first hand, don’t need to see on the news.

Thanks, new who. You are less competent at spinning for the cult than the last who, youth murderer.

Thank you, thats all we need is more spinning here on fornits.  Lets stick with the facts and get the families some balanced information for a change.  I think we may be entering a new era.

[Anonymous]

You missed one, reprobate:

You on the other hand don’t seem very professional

That's because I'm not a professional.  Thanks for reminding me that you are.

Public schools v. RTC's.  Both are paid for, yes.  Public schools don't take 60-100K per annum tuition.  RTC's are supposed to be safe alternatives to the dangers and temptations of public schools.  That's how parents get talked into paying out the ass for programs.  They want 24/7 watch.

Public schools:  Everyone is aware of the risks.  Unfortunately there aren't a lot of alternatives available to families without the resources to pay for boarding schools.  Pull your head out of your smug ass and look around:  RTC's are a place where affluent shithead parents can legally abandon their kids by signing custody over to a program to warehouse them until they hit the age of majority.  Programs know that and a lot of the parents couldn't give a shit about what goes on in an RTC as long as the kid is GONE along with the stress of having to be a parent.

RTC's:  America's nasty secret.  One big difference between abuse in a public school and in a program is what happens to the offenders.  Public teachers get fired and their licenses are yanked, their careers in education are over and jail is a strong possibility.  Program staff get charges dismissed and go work at another program, no problem.

Hang it up Who.  The economy is going to tank and you will have to find new work.  Without disposable income parents won't be able to dispose of their kids so easily.  Guess they'll have to buckle down and get involved with their kids problems.  Sucks, huh?

[TheWho]

Public schools v. RTC's. Both are paid for, yes. Public schools don't take 60-100K per annum tuition. RTC's are supposed to be safe alternatives to the dangers and temptations of public schools. That's how parents get talked into paying out the ass for programs. They want 24/7 watch.

I believe that is what makes them safer, the 24/7 aspect.

Public schools: Everyone is aware of the risks. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of alternatives available to families without the resources to pay for boarding schools. Pull your head out of your smug ass and look around: RTC's are a place where affluent shithead parents can legally abandon their kids by signing custody over to a program to warehouse them until they hit the age of majority. Programs know that and a lot of the parents couldn't give a shit about what goes on in an RTC as long as the kid is GONE along with the stress of having to be a parent.

You have been grossly miss informed.  The programs have a preset time line, the child is placed on course to graduate and they expect the parents to be involved (no dumping allowed).  Pull a few programs at random and check their requirnments/ talk to admissions you will see what I mean.  Some parents may just let their kids run down hill on the streets and hope they live thru it.  

RTC's: America's nasty secret. One big difference between abuse in a public school and in a program is what happens to the offenders. Public teachers get fired and their licenses are yanked, their careers in education are over and jail is a strong possibility. Program staff get charges dismissed and go work at another program, no problem.

Again you seem to be miss informed.  The staff are subjected to the laws of the state they are working in like everyone else.  They are not insulated by tenure or teachers unions like the public school teachers are.  You should read up on this it is an important issue.

Hang it up Who. The economy is going to tank and you will have to find new work.

I hear ya, much of my income is fairly insulated against the down turn although I think we will all feel the pinch at some point.  Thanks for the concern though.  How are you set up? okay?

Without disposable income parents won't be able to dispose of their kids so easily. Guess they'll have to buckle down and get involved with their kids problems. Sucks, huh?

Yup, It will be interesting to see if the crime rate and death rate of teens increases as enrolments in TBS’s drop off.



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[Anonymous]

You have been grossly miss informed.
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Again you seem to be miss informed.  

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Dam(n) it.  That's what I get for listening to Miss Information.

How much do you drink, if you don't mind my asking?  Your ability to spell takes a noticeable downturn in the evenings.  You also become a little goofy.

I'm not American.  Your loss will probably be my gain thanks to your current President's idiocy.

[Anonymous]

Your ability to spell takes a noticeable downturn in the evenings. You also become a little goofy.

prolly all depends on who is on shift.  maybe the late night person who posts as the Who is not a very good speller.

[Guest]

Discusted wrote:

Well. You're paying the program to keep them safe, aren't you?

Paying either way, public school isn’t free

You're saying the risk of a school bus ride or walking down a public street is the same as the risk in a program?

You need to weigh each risk.  Many here on fornits believe TBS’s to be less safe than public school.  I believe differently.

How can you compare what is supposed to be a structured, secure environment with 24/7 oversight to the horrors of the bad old outside world?

You just did.  One is secure and the other is not.  That has been my point all along and I have provided data , in the past, to support my position.

Man, I hope no guests read your imbecilic posts and leave before someone points out why you're a cretin.

well, that is thoughtful, I guess, but but unlike you I am more concerned with getting balanced information to parents.



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I just want to point out that this new "who" is obviously unaware of the very very long thread where "he/she" participated in an altercation in which it was proved that programs are more likely to murder a kid, than a kid is likely to die in a public school.

 It had all the figures and statistics in it. I'm too lazy... anyone want to find and bump that thread? Pysborgue, please?

I won't point out the absurdity of the who's idea that people should be forced into rentable prisons in order to keep them safe from crime, either. If anyone wants to do that be my guest.

[Guest]

Its impossible, all that needs to happen is some kid comes out and says they were yelled at and then that school/TBS/RTC will be branded abusive.  You haven’t been around here too long.  Stick around you will see what I mean.  Name a public school that is not abusive!!  Ha,Ha,Ha see what I mean?  There are tens of thousands of them in the US and I am sure no one could name even one..  

No, you incompetent wretch. Proof  a “program” works is not affected by reports of abuse in that “program.” Scientific validity of a treatment is not dependant on its potential practitioners.

To illustrate: it has been proved chemotherapy works. People have been abused by chemo dispensers, but that doesn’t disprove chemo’s effectiveness.

On the other hand, not ONE, not even ONE program has EVER been documented by scientific methodology and proofs as doing ANYTHING but HARMING participants.

Why in 60 years has not ONE program ever been proved effective? Because the individuals that run these programs are disciples of the Synanon, Scientology, and EST cults and their mutated reincarnations, and they are quite aware that their rendition centers do nothing but hurt their victims, and so not only fail to provide proof of their scam’s effectiveness, but fail to even keep records of which helpless individuals they “treat.”
Youth disappear into these facilities, many never to return, like morning dew in the afternoon. Predators like Mel Sembler, Mel Wasserman, Steve Laird, Rudy Bentz, Jill Bentz, Guy Bonnano, Patrick Stambusky, Russ DeckerTim Brace Mike Desisto know that physically sexually, psychologically torturing young adults for years is not beneficial, and that leaving a trail that would lead investigators to mass graves would not assist their scam.

That’s why even  YOU, their latest, least effective attempt to hide their crimes, cannot refer to even ONE program that has been scientifically proved to do anything but harm it’s participants.


Oh, every single school I ever went to never abused anyone. In programs it’s not the staff that abuses the kids, it’s the program itself. Programs are systems or torture and brainwashing like how Chinese Prisons “treating” practitioners of Fulan Gong are systems of torture and brainwashing. Torture does not stem from the individual staff, it is the “treatment” itself.

Here’s one of my schools :Kendall High. No one was ever abused by that school. Feel free to look it up and disprove me.