Chris/Ryan/Tim...Coldwater

[Carey]

I wanted to start a new thread because I believe my topic was lost in some of the other discussions on the other Coldwater thread.

I believe that the media attention that Ryan recieved was sought in order to help to sell this movie.  

I have asked Tim why he went to Casa to do an article on Case and he told me:

"I found out about Casa when a mother having a moment of doubt called me and asked me to find out about the welfare of her son."

Why is there nothing in his story about this mother and her son?  Tim told me she wanted to remain anonymous.  Well, ok, but...it seems to me that she could have remained anonymous and he still could have reported on the purpose of his trip and on what happened with her and her son.  But he did not, instead he focused on Ryan...and by the way Ryan's story mirros Chris's son's story.

It should bother all of us that our "two lead plantiffs" are endorsing a fiction movie. And, it should also bother all of us that the media may have been pulled into this in order to help to sell this movie.

Everyone who endorces this movie is hurting our fight.  People have to know that we know the difference between fact and fiction.  If our stories are not real enough or dramatic enough to make a real movie about, then we have big problems.  

By the way at one time Sue asked me if she could put my statement on her web site.  I told her sure...but then she asked me if I could spruce it up a little more, make it a little more sensational.  I told her no.  So, she never put it up, it was not "fictional" enough or "dramatic" enough for her.  This was one of the many times in which the real Sue started showing through and I started to doubt her motives.  I see this movie in quite the same way.  WE DO NOT HAVE TO SELL WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THESE PLACES WITH A FICTIONAL MOVIE.

Chris, if I do not spell everything correctly, please forgive me and focus on the real issue.

[anon]

//By the way at one time Sue asked me if she could put my statement on her web site. I told her sure...but then she asked me if I could spruce it up a little more, make it a little more sensational. I told her no. So, she never put it up, it was not "fictional" enough or "dramatic" enough for her.//

Carey Bock - I'm shocked at you.
This is a lie and you know it.
Sue and I don't see eye to eye on everything, and we have butted heads rather hard of late - but I know for sure and certain, she never asked anyone for permission to "spruce up" their account!
And so do you.
This is an outrageous thing to say, and you might want to consider the possibility its slander for real.
Its bad enough when you go speculating your paranoid ranting in public - but to make claims about people you know are false  - and this is what your doing - is way beyond bad.
I've come to the conclusion, you aren't just mentally ill, but you are a horrible person.

[Carey]

Karen,

I have a copy of the email in which Sue asked me to add more to my statement than I had wrote. I have every email ever sent to me from Sue, etal. I make statements that I can back up.  Have you not learned that by now.

Please stick your nose into something you know something about!  

You are constantly sticking your nose into things that that you have no first hand knowledge on

and

you are constantly claiming to be some kind of expert on things you know nothing about.
 
Carey

[Anonymous]

Karen - how do you KNOW that Sue didn't ask Carey to spruce up her account of what her son's said happened?  I DON'T doubt that Sue Scheff asked her to do this considering what she is doing for a living.

You said to Carey, " I've come to the conclusion, you aren't just mentally ill, but you are a horrible person."  

Karen, don't you know by now that statements like this are a mirror of yourself??

Carey - If Tim doesn't want to divulge the info, that's his right as a reporter.  If Tim checked things out himself and all was okay and the mom decided that it was only her fears running her doubts about Casa and has decided to keep her kid in there, then what's it to you?  What's it to anyone?  It's a private thing between them.  If this mom wants to talk to you, then fine.  Keep digging.

[spots]

Dear Carey (for whom I have great admiration and support for her efforts in closing WWASPS)...

Somewhere in the '70's, there was a movie...Silkwood was the title, I think.  I know it garnered an academy award for Supporting Actress for Cher.  It was a FICTIONAL movie about a real situation.

Karen Silkwood was a person of...uhmm...less than stellar social standing.  She was a lower-wage technician in an atomic reactor power plant in, I think, Texas.  She lived with her boyfriend, and Cher's character (who loved her lesbian-style), and she was tatooed, smoked pot, etc.  Regardless of her social stature, she realized that there were major problems in leakages, malfunctions, etc. in this atomic plant, which were being covered up by minor-league bureaucratic functionaries.  She began to "leak" information to the press.  She had made an appointment to finally meet with a powerful reporter on a certain night to fully document the information she stumbled across.  On the way to meet him, her car was mysteriously forced off the road, and she was killed.

What the world remembers from this FICTIONAL movie???  That dumb-shits control powerful and dangerous locations.  That some people can get away with murder.  That the smallest voice can make major changes.  That, if a newspaper reporter could not get his story, a fictional movie without the constraints of slander, can.  

Let "Coldwater" do their story.  Unless everyone lives happily ever after in this movie and the parents are proven to be correct after all in incarcerating their kids for years, it will have impact. I can't imagine a scenario where WWASPS-type facilities come off the hero.

[Carey]

Anon you said:  "If this mom wants to talk to you, then fine. Keep digging."


It was through digging that brought me to the truth on Dundee.  It was through digging that I found that Dundee was not what it seemed.  They presented themselves as a "tropical paradise" when in reality they were a "prison for teens."  There are ways to get to the truth.  Getting to the truth sometimes upsets a whole lot of people...ususally those are people who have something to hide.

Thanks for the  tip Anon.  I do plan to keep digging.  I already have some facts that seem to back my theory on this FICTIONAL film.  I have already had a couple of those who are invovled threaten me with a law suit for speaking about what I believe to be true.  It is unfortunate but then I am not afraid of the risk invovled when it concerns so many kids and the TRUTH and FACTS about what is and has happened.

[Carey]

Spots, I respect your opinion.  Thanks for not attacking my view.  I don't know enough about the making of the film Silkwood to know whether or not the idea for the film was made before or after the actual event.  Most likely the film came in to play after the story truely happened.  I think the differnce here is that the film was in the making before the news broke.  In other words the news was not turned on to something that had happened at Casa, but the news was turned on to make something happen...something being the making of a film.

I guess I feel the need to address the "documentary" that will be sent out with the DVD.  How is it that the documentary can be sent out with the sale of the DVD with out any fear of slander, yet the movie that is being done for film can not?  What is holding the DVD release from being sued for slander?

I would think if the DVD with documentary can be done true to life then so could the film.  Why the need to sacrifice the truth for fiction?

[Anonymous]

Carey - you wrote: "They presented themselves as a "tropical paradise" when in reality they were a "prison for teens."

Where in their literature or web site does it say that Dundee is a tropical paradise?   Costa Rica IS beautiful, that is true.  Dundee IS in a beautiful area, that is also true. I see that it is an "environment for change" NOT a vacation!  Do you think a parent would send their kid away for a tropical vacation, when change is what they seek?  Maybe YOU should be a reporter, you have a gift for twisting reality.  

Do you know the difference between a "prison/jail" and "secure and structured?"  There is no freedom in the beginning for kids that abused that priviledge at home and need this kind of structure.  Secure will prohibit them from running away when the going gets too hard for them to follow rules.

If these kids didn't need this kind of structure then why the hell would parents be going to this extreme?  Let me know, cuz I'm not understanding your statement.

[FaceKhan]

WWASP facilities are prisons, brutal prisons where they don't just want your body, they want your mind too.

As far as the movie goes I think that it is great that a movie is being done which touches on these issues. It may bring more people into the know on these places.

Why is it fictional? Because you can't make a feature length movie in widespread distribution that accuses someone of such crimes. Look at the flap over Citizen Kane back when it was made. It was just a parody but it became clear who it was about during early production and nearly got cancelled.


In addition you really can't make a movie or tv show that follows the reality inside these teen lockups. For one reason, because the time spent in there is nothing if not utterly boring. After the first week in the show where the main character is not allowed to speak, or if not then ,then an entire episode devoted to watching him in OP it would quickly turn off viewers. Since you are leaving out the downtime in between the random acts of brutality and mental abuse you are safer calling it "dramatized" or "fiction" or "a composite of several people's stories"

The last thing I expect this movie to do is hurt our cause, I think it will probably help a little bit by directing attention towards it.

If you want to make a real life movie of one of these places, than gather up the money, find someone in good mental health who can pass for a teenager and infiltrate with a hidden camera and audio recording somehow. After a month or so you can claim to be the parent coming to her senses and pull him out. Then its just the matter of giving the footage to the media and the government and watching the swat team go in.

[Anonymous]

"In addition you really can't make a movie or tv show that follows the reality inside these teen lockups. For one reason, because the time spent in there is nothing if not utterly boring. After the first week in the show where the main character is not allowed to speak, or if not then ,then an entire episode devoted to watching him in OP it would quickly turn off viewers. Since you are leaving out the downtime in between the random acts of brutality and mental abuse you are safer calling it "dramatized" or "fiction" or "a composite of several people's stories."


So what you are saying is that the true reality of these places is not enough to make a movie about.  The audience would become bored.  I don't agree.  I think the tragedy is in the masses.  It is in those who are told they can't talk, they can't look at one another, they can cross their legs with out permission.  It is in those who's minds are being played with.  I don't think the beatings are what makes the story.  I do think they are a part of the story but they are not the main part of the story.  Most of the kids in these programs are hurt by the subtle abuses that occur, not the beatings.  The beatings are few and far between.  It is the mental abuse that everyone is subject to that should be the focus. If you want to focus on the beatings then the real tragedy that is occuring in these places will never be understood.  

I think you also have to take in to consideration the way this movie has come about.  This movie has come to pass by deceptive means.  There is notheing wrong with using the media to report the news.  However, when the media is used to help sell a movie and its characters, then that is totally deceptive.   That is what I believe has occurred.

[Carey]

First that previous reply to Facekahn was mine.

Second,

Carey - you wrote: "They presented themselves as a "tropical paradise" when in reality they were a "prison for teens."

Where in their literature or web site does it say that Dundee is a tropical paradise? Costa Rica IS beautiful, that is true. Dundee IS in a beautiful area, that is also true.

My kids never saw anything in Costa Rica.  They did not see the beauty of Costa Rica.  All they saw was the abuse that Dundee had to hand out. Dundee is in a beautiful place...but, Dundee is NOT a beautiful place.  Big difference!!!! Garbage in, garbage out.  If you can distract people from the reality, then maybe you can sell the program.  That must have been Dundee's way of operating.  It was a PRISON.  My point is, tell it like it is.  Don't try to fluff up the reality of these places.  Why does the Dundee literature try to make it seem like these kids are living in some paradise?  They aren't.

[Anonymous]

Carey: Again, it's all in your perception.  From looking at the website, it looks very beautiful on the grounds - are you saying the photos are not of Dundee?  Though it may seem like a prison to the kids, they may (hopefully) not know the difference. Prisons have cells and bars.  I know, we can create our own self-imposed prisons' but that's not what I'm saying.  I'm literally saying that prisons and jails have cells, a toilet/sink and bars and very limited movement. RTC's don't.

I won't argue anymore - just take a look at what you are saying and hope that your kids never have to find out the difference.

[Carey]

Dundee is worse than prison.

Why show the beautiful surroundings of Dundee. Parents are not looking there to see what their vaction will be like.  Parents view the site to see what the place is like for their kids.  That is their interest, or at least that should be their interest.

They have all of these beautiful pictures of aligators and birds.  Their brochures should be for tourists who need a vacation.  Not for parents who are trying to see what life is like for their kids in a "program."   Why not show the kids as they truely are, all of the kids?  They can't.  They can't show the abuse.  They only other thing they can show besides the scenery, is the handful of kids who they have trained and who they know will comply totally to their demands.

My boys were there 7 months.  Never was there a picture of them on the website, except of course for the staged "family" pictures.  Why were there not pictures of them going on field trips and the like? Because they never lift the PRISON.  They were not emersed in the culture.  They were emersed in the abuse.  That is all they ever got from Dundee no more no less.

Dundee is not closed because of me.  Dundee is closed because of the way they were operating.  ABUSIVELY!!!!!!  I don't deserve the credit for shutting Dundee down, they did it to themselves.  All I did was remove my boys from a place that could careless about their wellbeing.  I just made sure that others knew the reason why I removed them.

[Anonymous]

...but then she asked me if ~ ?I could spruce it up a little more, make it a little more sensational.? ~ I told her no. So, she never put it up, it was not "fictional" enough or "dramatic" enough for her.


I have a copy of the email in which ~ ?Sue asked me to add more to my statement than I had wrote.? ~ I have every email ever sent to me from Sue, etal. I make statements that I can back up. Have you not learned that by now.


Asking for more detail is not the same as asking for sensational  fiction.
One is asking for lies, the other for more truth.
Your first statement sounds very much as if your accusing her of asking for lies.
The second only like she asked for more detail.
I can believe the second - but due to my own personal experience, and that of many others, Not the first.

[Carey]

"Asking for more detail is not the same as asking for sensational fiction."

When someone asks me to add to my experience, because my experience is not good enough for them, or it is not what they want to hear, then I believe they are looking for sensational fiction.  I never changed what I wrote and it never was put on Sue's website. It was not sensational enough to make it there.   But inlight of everything I have learned about her, I am glad that it didn't.  I would not want to be known as one of her supporters.