Imagine a Program

[Anonymous]

On the face of it I don't have a problem with something like this. If it is largely something a young person wants to do and there are sensible safety measures & it is non punitive then fine. Especially if the so called "therapy" is in the participation as opposed to a bunch of forced random activities & mind games designed to "push the limits"
Obviously I would never endorse something because it is hard to know what goes on without being there but if this is genuinely what it says it is then it looks like a good opportunity for any kid "at risk" or otherwise.
WD tony what are your concerns?

i doubt the people who responded even looked at the information. they oppose it because who supported it, as who intended. he doesn't support community initiatives like this, at a fraction of the cost. they'd cut into industry profits, if not close them down.

[TheWho]

On the face of it I don't have a problem with something like this. If it is largely something a young person wants to do and there are sensible safety measures & it is non punitive then fine. Especially if the so called "therapy" is in the participation as opposed to a bunch of forced random activities & mind games designed to "push the limits"
Obviously I would never endorse something because it is hard to know what goes on without being there but if this is genuinely what it says it is then it looks like a good opportunity for any kid "at risk" or otherwise.
WD tony what are your concerns?

i doubt the people who responded even looked at the information. they oppose it because who supported it, as who intended. he doesn't support community initiatives like this, at a fraction of the cost. they'd cut into industry profits, if not close them down.

Thats exactly right, they opposed it because "who" was for it.  Then they (DYS, KIS etc.) derailed the thread instead of giving their opinion or talking about what was positive or negative about it.

[TheWho]

I don’t think many disliked it just because I thought it looked promising,  It’s sad to say but many here are opposed to kids getting any type of help and feel that all kids should just be allowed to live their life the way they feel.  Others feel all kids will just grow out of their behavior regardless of their problems. 

 I don’t think fornits has room for even one program which helps kids because that would leave the door open for the possibility that there could be more programs which are successful.  It is easier to just hate all of them without thinking  or justifying their position…….so I think there will be a fast scramble here to find something negative about this place or locate some kid who doesn’t like the place and try to sell this as the norm, discredit them to encourage parents not to get help for their children.

I think we will be seeing more and more of these places as military style boot camps slowly go out of favor.  Should be interesting to watch over the next few years.



...

[Anonymous]

I don’t think fornits has room...

who's fornits? i thought this was a public forum... does fornits have a spokesperson?

[Anonymous]

Say what you will about DYS, but I would have to agree with statements like, "THESE PLACES DO MORE BAD THAN GOOD."

TheWho, do you think that unwarranted coercion is ever ok?

I think we are all 99% sure that DYS never attended any program except maybe a local 30 day rehab of some sort.  If he had he would be showing at least a little social compassion towards other kids who are getting some help in an out patient setting.  He is here like niles is ... this is just a place for him to dump his hatred.

As far as the coercion goes, if it is unwarranted than I dont believe it is okay.



...

Who, you should refrain from attacking the survivors posting here.  After all, they deserve to be heard, don't you think?  Don't take the freedom of speech you have on this forum for granted.  This isn't StrugglingTeens, all can speak.  You do seem to be losing your composure, perhaps you need to take a break or call for an early replacement for your trolling shift.  DYS was in Peninsula Village for a long time, his opinion of programs is far more informed than yours - he's been through one of the worst, not read about it on a computer monitor.  He knows about escort services first-hand, as well. 

In all fairness, DYS's views have a value yours never will, and your erroneous and mean-spirited attempt to belittle his experience in an abusive program makes you look intolerant and obtuse.  Normally you apologize after such an angry outburst.  This would be a good time to show some civility and tolerance, and you owe the young man an apology.

You spoke too quickly... read his post to me first... I was just returning the words... they were all his not mine.

I havent received an appology yet!!





...

Who, this isn't a playground, and if it were, you would be the teacher by virtue of your age.  DYS is a young man with strong opinions based on experiences you're fortunate to have never had.  Considering you're at least twenty years older than DYS, I thought you would show a little more maturity and avoid the "he said it first!" game.  Don't let your anger destroy your reason.  Many former patients of abusive facilities will be hostile to you because of your views, you of all people should be aware of that by now.  If you would be more understanding of what causes the strong feelings in these former patients, you might be able to find that elusive "middle ground". 

Accusing the young man of being in a short term rehab and citing a fallacious "99%" of an unknown group believing the same was unnecessary, and you know it's untrue.  Also, any statistics you post lose credibility when  you occasionally "fictionalize" a percentage in order to represent a group.  You are very much alone on Fornits. 

Be mature.  You know DYS has been in at least three programs well-known to be abusive.  Show that the industry can rise above petty squabbling and name-calling and apologize.  Why should apologizing hinge on getting one first?  You know what's right.

Also, I'm not trying to derail the thread but keep it on track.  When you deliberately post false information, who, you've jumped the tracks.

Have you found any programs you can hold up as paradigms for industry reform?

i WASN
T

[TheWho]

It was DYS that said to “who”: “But I am 99% sure that you are no parent”.  DYS should apologize he is a big boy.  Why don’t you take this off line.

[Anonymous]

It was DYS that said to “who”: “But I am 99% sure that you are no parent”.  DYS should apologize he is a big boy.  Why don’t you take this off line.

DYS was stating his opinion and only speaking for himself.  TheWho claimed "I think we are all 99% sure that DYS never attended any program except maybe a local 30 day rehab of some sort." We are all certainly not under that impression, unless I'm the 1% dissenting.

DYS is more than a "big boy", he's a young adult with an insider's view of programs.  TheWho is a much older adult presenting a view that is unpopular with people who spent time in abusive programs.  Being thin-skinned and resorting to childish taunting makes it hard to take him seriously, and that's only my opinion.

I see no need to "take it off-line", the goal is to keep a reasonable discussion on-line.  I'm sorry thewho has resorted to the low tactics of mudslinging and lying in order to discredit one of his critics, but running away "off-line" is no answer. 

[Anonymous]

who, I'm concerned that you're having trouble finding a program with evidence-based treatment and a completely independent evaluation showing success, so I will try to help by offering a starting point.

First, we'll start with the programs known to be transparent facilities with evidence-based treatment:

(This will remain blank until your search is finished)


Now, we'll list programs(from http://institutional-child-abuse-news.w ... m/Programs) I think we can both agree are extremely flawed (or closed) and therefore can't be considered as "model" programs for our tentative list of principles:

    *  ABM Boarding Academy
    * ABM Family Preparatory
    * ABM Ministries, Inc
    * Abundant Life Academy
    * Abundant Life Academy of Kanab
    * Abundant Life Christian Boarding School
    * Academy at Canyon Creek
    * Academy at Cedar Mountain
    * Academy at Ivy Ridge
    * Academy at Sisters
    * Academy at Swift River
    * Academy of the Sierras
    * ACE
    * Achievement Valley Ranch, Inc.
    * Adirondack Leadership Expeditions
    * Affinity Foundation
    * Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center (AARC)
    * Alldredge Academy
    * Alpine Academy/Cottonwood Grove
    * Alpine Academy/Oakridge
    * Alpine Academy/Smith Home
    * Alpine Academy/Willow Creek
    * Alpine Boys Ranch
    * America's Buffalo Soldiers Re-Enactors
    * Anasazi Foundation
    * Anchor Academy
    * Appalachian Wilderness Camp
    * Arizona Boys Ranch
    * Ascent, Inc.
    * Ascent Wilderness Intervention
    * Aspen Achievement Academy
    * Aspen Education Group
    * Aspen Ranch
    * Aspiro Wilderness Program
    * Auldern Academy
    * Avalon Hills Residential Eating Disorders Treatment
    * Ayne Institute

B

    * Bachelor Academy
    * Bancroft NeuroHealth Inc
    * Banham Marshalls College
    * Bell Academy
    * Bethel Boys Academy
    * Bethel Girls Academy
    * Birdseye Boys Ranch
    * Blue Hills Academy
    * Blue Mountain Family Center
    * Blue Mountain Wilderness Program
    * Boulder Creek Academy
    * Boulder Outdoor Survival School
    * Bowling Brook Preparatory School
    * Bridges Boys Academy
    * Brightway Hospital
    * Broken Shackle Ranch
    * Bromley Brook School
    * Brown Schools
    * Browning Academy

C

    * Catherine Freer Wilderness
    * Camas Ranch
    * Camp Oakland
    * Canyon Creek Academy
    * Canyon State Academy
    * Canyon View Park
    * Carlbrook
    * Carolina Springs Academy
    * Casa By the Sea
    * Catalyst Residential Treatment Center
    * Cedars Academy
    * Cedar Breaks Academy
    * Cedar Ridge Academy
    * CEDU Schools
    * CERTS
    * Chad Youth Enhancement Center --- Deaths? YES; Abuses? Yes; Still in Operation? Yes
    * Cherokee Creek Boys School
    * Challenger
    * Christ Community Church
    * Clear View
    * Cold Spring Academy
    * Colorado Mountain Camps
    * Copper Canyon Academy
    * Coral Island Academy
    * Coral Reef Academy
    * Cornerstone Programs Corp.
    * Corpus Christi State School
    * Cottonwood Youth Academy
    * Crater Lake School
    * Cross Creek Manor - North Campus
    * Cross Creek Manor, LLC - Main Bldg
    * Cross Creek Manor, LLC - Pass House
    * Cross Creek Programs, LLC - South Campus

D

    * Darrington Academy
    * DeSisto School
    * Devereux Foundation
    * Deveraux Glenholme
    * Discovery Academy
    * Diamond Ranch Academy - Crystal Springs
    * Diamond Ranch Academy - Lava Falls
    * Discovery Ranch
    * Distant Drums Beginnings
    * Dundee Ranch Academy

E

    * Eagle Point Christian Academy
    * Eagle Ranch Academy, Inc.
    * Eagle Valley Ranch, Inc.
    * Eckerd Youth Alternatives
    * Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School
    * Elan School
    * Emily Griffith Center
    * Escuala Caribe
    * Evangeline Christian Home for Girls
    * Excel Academy
    * Excelsior Youth Ranch
    * Extended Famikly, Inc.

F

    * Faith Ranch
    * Falcon Ridge Ranch
    * Family Foundation School
    * Flying H Youth Ranch
    * Focal Point Academy
    * Freedom Mountain Academy
    * Froerer Counseling
    * Fulshear

G

    * Gatehouse
    * Gateway Academy, LLC
    * Gerard of Iowa care facility
    * Glacier Mountain
    * Grace Christian Home & Academy for Girls
    * Grandfather Academy
    * Grandfather Home for Children
    * Greensboro Psychiatric Hospital
    * Growing Together Inc
    * Gulf Coast Academy

H

    * Hanna
    * Harbor Oaks Boarding School
    * Heartlight Ministries
    * Heritage Residential Treatment Center
    * Heritage Youth Services
    * Hidden Lake Academy
    * High Impact
    * High Top Ranch School
    * Hope Ranch
    * Horizon Academy
    * House of Hope
    * House of Hope Baja Teen Recovery Center
    * Hyde School

I

    * Idaho Youth Ranch
    * Inner Changes of Provo Canyon
    * Inner Connections
    * Integrity House
    * Integrity House West
    * Intermountain Hospital
    * Ironwood Maine
    * Island View RTC

J

    * Jeffrey C. Wardle Academy
    * Jubilee Youth Ranch
    * Jude Thaddeus Home Recovery Program
    * Judge Rotenberg Educational Center

K

    * Keystone Camp
    * Keystone City Residence
    * Kiatou Wilderness & Therpeutic Centre
    * Kids Behavioral Health
    * Kids Centers of America
    * Kids Education and Kare
    * Kids Helping Kids
    * King George School
    * Kids Helping Kids
    * Kolob Canyon Residential Treatment Center

L

    * La Europe
    * Learning Independence Through Education (L.I.T.E.)
    * Leeds
    * Liahona Academy
    * Lighthouse Christian Academy
    * Life Designs
    * Life-Lines, Inc.
    * Lindon Boys Home
    * Living Well Transitions
    * Logan River Academy
    * Lone Star Expeditions
    * Lost and Found Youth Academy
    * Lott's Legacy Boarding School
    * Love Demonstrated Ministries Christian Boot Camp

M

    * Majestic Ranch Academy, Inc.
    * Manolia Christian Center
    * Manuia Plantation
    * Maple Lake Academy
    * Maple Rise Properties, LLC - Tavasi
    * Maryville Academy
    * Meridell Achievement Center
    * Midnight Mountain
    * Midwest Academy
    * Milestones
    * Mission Mountain School
    * Monarch School
    * Montana Academy
    * Moonridge Academy
    * Morava Academy
    * Mount Bachelor Academy
    * Mount Carmel Youth Ranch
    * Mountain Brook Academy
    * Mountain Homes Youth Ranch
    * Mountain Park Boarding Academy

N

    * National Academy of Fitness
    * National Deaf Academy
    * Nevada Horizon Academy
    * New Beginnings Maternity Home
    * New Beginning Ministry, Inc.
    * New Beginnings Rebekah Academy
    * New Directions
    * New Dominion School
    * New Haven Residential Treatment Center
    * New Horizons for Young Women
    * New Horizons Youth Ministries
    * New Horizons Youth Ranch
    * New Leaf Academy
    * Next Step for Success
    * North Star Expeditions Inc
    * North Star Center
    * Northwest Academy
    * Northwest Passages
    * North Woods of Idaho

O

    * Oak Ridge Military Academy
    * Oakley School
    * Obsidian Trails
    * Odyssey Wilderness Programs
    * OnTrack
    * Open Sky Wilderness Therapy
    * Optimum Performance Institute
    * Outback Therapeutic Expeditions
    * Outward Bound
    * Oxbow Academy

P

    * Pacific Coast Academy
    * Pacific Quest
    * Pacific View Retreat
    * Paradise Cove
    * Parents Helping Parents
    * Passages to Recovery
    * Pathway Academy, LLC
    * Pathway Family Center
    * Peninsula Behavioral Health
    * Peninsula Village
    * Penrith Farms
    * Phoenix Institute
    * Pillars of Hope
    * Pine Ridge Academy
    * Pine View Academy
    * Pinnacle Foundatin
    * Positive Impact Bahia de Kino
    * Pressley Ridge Ohiopyle Therapeutic Wilderness
    * Progressive Youth, Inc.
    * Project DARE Canada - Wendigo Lake Expeditions
    * Provo Canyon School

Q
R

    * Rainsbrook training centre
    * Rancho Valmora
    * Red Cliff Ascent
    * Red Rock Canyon School
    * Red River Academy
    * Renaissance Adolescent Services, Inc.
    * Resolution Ranch
    * Respect Camp
    * Ridge Creek
    * Rite of Passage
    * Robert Land Academy
    * Rocklyn Academy
    * Rocky Mountain Academy
    * Rose Hill Psychiatric Rehabilitation
    * Royal Gorge Academy

S

    * Salem Ranch
    * SAFE, Inc/ACE
    * Safe Harbor Boys Home
    * Safe Harbor Haven
    * Sage Walk
    * San Cristobal Ranch Academy
    * Second Chance, Inc.
    * Second Nature Entrada, LLC
    * Second Nature Wilderness Programs
    * Shamrock Educational Academy
    * Shamrock Educational Alternative
    * Shepherd's Hill Farm
    * Shortridge Academy
    * Silverado Boys Ranch
    * Sky View Academy
    * Skyline Journey
    * SLS Health
    * Solacium - New Haven LLC
    * Solacium - New Haven LLC - Parks House
    * Solacium - New Haven LLC - Roosevelt
    * Solacium - New Haven LLC - Sacagawea
    * Solacium Sunrise, LLC
    * Soltreks
    * Sorensen's Ranch School
    * Southwestern Academy
    * Spring Creek Lodge Academy
    * Spring Ridge Academy
    * Stone Mountain School
    * Straight Arrow Apex
    * Straight Inc
    * STARR Academy
    * Stepping Stones for Success, LLC
    * Summit Achievement in New England
    * Summit Quest Academy
    * SummitQuest
    * Sunhawk Academy
    * Sunrise Academy
    * Sunrise Beach
    * Sunrise Family Services
    * SUWS
    * SUWS of the Carolinas
    * SUWS Youth Program
    * Swan Valley Youth Academy - (Closed in 2006 amid abuse allegations)
    * Swift River, Academy at

T

    * Talisman Programs
    * Tavasi
    * Teen Help
    * Teen Horizon
    * Temagami Academy
    * Thayer Learning Center
    * Three Rivers Montana
    * Three Springs Schools
    * Top Flight Academy
    * Tranquility Bay
    * Trinity Teen Solutions
    * Triple L Youth Ranch
    * TurnAbout Ranch
    * Turn About Ranch - Barn
    * Turn About Ranch - Boys Cabin
    * Turn About Ranch - Lodge
    * Turn About Ranch - Ranch House
    * Turn About Ranch - Roundy
    * Turning Point Family Care, Inc.
    * Turning Winds
    * Tyler Ranch

U

    * UHS of Provo Canyon, Inc - Inner Changes of Provo Canyon
    * UHS of Provo Canyon, Inc - Orem Campus
    * UHS of Provo Canyon, Inc. - Provo Campus
    * UHS of Provo Canyon, Inc. - Sommerset
    * UHS of Provo Canyon School
    * Uinta Academy
    * Unita Academy East
    * Unita Academy West
    * Universal Interventions
    * Utah Youth Village - Alpine Academy/Cottonwood Grove
    * Utah Youth Village - Alpine Academy/Oakridge
    * Utah Youth Village - Alpine Academy/Smith Home
    * Utah Youth Village - Alpine Academy/Willow Creek

V

    * Victor Cullen Youth Center
    * Victory Care Centers Corp - Victory House
    * Vista Adolescent Treatment Center
    * Vista Counseling Services
    * Vista at Dimple Dell Canyon
    * Vista Teen Living, LLC
    * Vista Teen Living - Teen Horizon
    * VisionQuest Programs
    * Volunteers of America, Utah

W

    * Waterfall Canyon
    * Wardle Academy (Jeffrey C.,)
    * Wardles Therapeutic Family Home
    * Wellspring Academy
    * West Ridge Academy
    * White River Academy, Inc.
    * White River Adventure
    * Whitmore Academy
    * Wilderness Challenger
    * Wilderness Quest
    * Willow Creek School
    * Wisdom Ranch School
    * Woodland Hills Academy
    * Woodland Hills Maternity Home
    * World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools - WWASPS

X
Y

    * Youth Care, Inc.
    * Youth Track


This should provide a starting point for you, who.

[TheWho]

As I read thru this "Down to Earth Project" it seems they have given a slight new twist to wilderness.  They get these kids out of their eviornment and instead of walking them thru the woods all day they set them up with projects or sustainable living skills.......

•   Self esteem at the centre – recognising self esteem needs are key in providing a foundation for working with young people
•   Relationship and respect – long term strategy based on mutual respect and relationship building with young people and workers
•   Achievable tasks – providing opportunities where young people
•   can succeed and take pride in their abilities
•   Participant led – supporting individual needs and learning styles, incorporating ownership and democratic values - having a voice and being listened to
• High support levels – enabling safe and supportive provision


They have a great model and the kids seem to like it.  I dont think it would be a direct substitute for our TBS but it would work for many of the types of kids who have experienced wilderness and didnt like all the hiking.

I havent looked at all the time lines so I dont know how comparable it would be.



...

[TheWho]

who, I'm concerned that you're having trouble finding a program with evidence-based treatment and a completely independent evaluation showing success, so I will try to help by offering a starting point.

......................................

Great listing, KIS.  I will hold this aside...Thats a huge list!!!!!!   I never realized there were that many schools... holy smuthers!!! ..... MIS and myself are working on a list of items which would define the ideal TBS (in the thread "Define the Ideal TBS"?).  This list will come in handy to determine if any of the schools meet the criteria (or how well they do against the standard).
I need to hammer down a few more items for review next Sunday.

Thanks again for your effort.


...

[Anonymous]

I am not even going to read the bullshit Who posted. The reason I know is because I saw that photo you put down of your "kid" And I personaly did some digging mixed with a group of other people who call them selves monsters or whatever and found the names and locations of where the girls on that photo are from. None of which were from your area NOR were they in the area of the shitty RTC you supposedly sent her to. So from basic deductive reasoning I have found out that either You put up a phony photo of your supposed daughter, or you just dont have one at all. It was not even that hard dude. I had someone POST me all the fucking info. It all matched up. So either you are a fucking liar or you just make shit up to where the ends justify the means. I am out of town right now hence why I am signing in as a guest but when I get home I will be happy to spank your ass again like the bad monkey you are. Yeah I gave a statistic because thats how fucking sure  am. Bring your daughter inhere and prove she exists or shut the fuck up and never mention her ever again you twisted fuck.

[TheWho]

I am not even going to read the bullshit Who posted. The reason I know is because I saw that photo you put down of your "kid" And I personaly did some digging mixed with a group of other people who call them selves monsters or whatever and found the names and locations of where the girls on that photo are from. None of which were from your area NOR were they in the area of the shitty RTC you supposedly sent her to. So from basic deductive reasoning I have found out that either You put up a phony photo of your supposed daughter, or you just dont have one at all. It was not even that hard dude. I had someone POST me all the fucking info. It all matched up. So either you are a fucking liar or you just make shit up to where the ends justify the means. I am out of town right now hence why I am signing in as a guest but when I get home I will be happy to spank your ass again like the bad monkey you are. Yeah I gave a statistic because thats how fucking sure  am. Bring your daughter inhere and prove she exists or shut the fuck up and never mention her ever again you twisted fuck.

Look DYS,  a few of us went to a lot of trouble convincing admins to get a system in place to ignore people... it is now in place and it is called the "ignore button".  If my posts bother you so much just click it!!  Talk to psy..Che and some others.. it works well for them.

A little sick tracking down kids and their photos....  You expect anyone to invite their children into this forum?  You must be wacked.


...

[Anonymous]

See thats the thing Who, I AM A  sick person, I am a motherfucking scumfuck, but at least I know what I am. And if you werent going around LYING about having a kid maybe I wouldent spend time tracking down people who you claimed you were related to. So in reality are people going to be creeped out that I found out you were a lying piece of scum by using things you said and places you mentioned. Or are they going to get pissed at you for making a bullshit story and talking about how your kid was fixed when you never really had one.

If the truth comes out through being creepy trhen I will ALWAYS be the first to do it.

I am a fucking rail rider  gutterpunk. you ass hat and social taboos have no phase on me.

But little lying cretins like YOU do.

[TheWho]

See thats the thing Who, I AM A  sick person, I am a motherfucking scumfuck, but at least I know what I am. And if you werent going around LYING about having a kid maybe I wouldent spend time tracking down people who you claimed you were related to. So in reality are people going to be creeped out that I found out you were a lying piece of scum by using things you said and places you mentioned. Or are they going to get pissed at you for making a bullshit story and talking about how your kid was fixed when you never really had one.

If the truth comes out through being creepy trhen I will ALWAYS be the first to do it.

I am a fucking rail rider  gutterpunk. you ass hat and social taboos have no phase on me.

But little lying cretins like YOU do.

DYS, You are a modest little person, with much to be modest about and can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any poster I know.



...

[DieYuppieSkum]

dude what ever, just stop talking out of your ass and get the hell out of here.