I attended an open meeting this month

[ClayL]

Public speaking was the course that gave me the most fits in college. It was so wierd, getting up in front of a group that looked a whole lot like a 5th phase rap and have to give a convincing performance about some topic that was assigned to me. Then the feedback from the class. It was horrible! The least little correction and I was crushed and humiliated far beyond normal. By the end of the term I was a basket case and hadn't had a full nights sleep for more than a month and rarely slept for two nights in a row. The exact same paranoia. Until I read this thread, I had never put it togather.

Much therapy later during the course of my 10 year college career. My therapist talked me into going to Panama City, FL with my fraternity for spring break. (I really miss Spring Break.) During this time I tried several new things. Like actually talking to women I hadn't yet met in a night club setting. Come to find out, I was pretty good at this. This opened my mind to several things. Some of these are obvious, some not quite so obvious. While it takes a lot of effort, I can successfully talk to people in a public environment. I do not like it and I have to prepare myself before hand, I am good at it. I, however, when put on the spot tend to collaspe. My CIO is assisting with getting over this also. He doesn't take "I don't know," for an answer.

About the best  have done is giving the best man's toast at the rehearsal dinner for my best friend. I told some of the funnier stories and finished with, "May your love be as such that when one of your cries, the other tastes salt." Hell no I didn't come up with that! Looked it up on the Internet. Thing is, I knew the crowd wasn't hostile, that I would have to do it, and the time and place. Like I said, if I can prepare myself, I do pretty good.

CL

[ehm]

On 2003-06-26 07:44:00, Froderik13 wrote:

"Nope, wasn't me...although I appeciate the hateful scorn...  :smokin:  "

 :grin:

[pepper53190]

I really enjoyed everything everyone said. I thought about a lot of it.  Everyone talked about phobias and such.  Weird thing I came up with, is that I think I might have gone to the other end of the spectrum (extreme). The comment someone said about me being a self help junkie and so on is about right.  I love public speaking and talking out in large groups of people.  I have no problem talking about how I feel, and analyzing situations.  I suppose in a way I am a little concerned about this finding, but it seems to work for me.  So what would be wrong with it.  I guess I just don't know any other way.  I too have question my alcholism, but I don't think I would know what to do.  I's a mom and stuf now so it's to much of a risk to find out, besides what would be the big deal.  I live in California now, and I stopped going to meeting about 2 years ago. I was tierd of listening to everyone white knuckling through life, I was beyond that and felt like it was time to move on.  Sound snobby?  No, cause I respect were they are, it's just not where I am. I am recently trying to find a shrink, cause I can't deal with daily desicions and I can't seem to work with any issues with out someone to guide me.  I know I am this way because of STRAIGHT, but I have had choices and the ability to change, I just can't figure out why I won't make that change.  Too comfortable perhaps......who knows, those are just my thoughts.

[ClayL]

On 2003-06-27 13:01:00, pepper53190 wrote:

"I have no problem talking about how I feel, and analyzing situations.  I suppose in a way I am a little concerned about this finding, but it seems to work for me."

When I am round people I know I am the same way. My issue here was the straight definition of honesty. I found myself talking about things that are really no one elses business. Learning when to stop was key to continued growth.

I was tierd of listening to everyone white knuckling through life, I was beyond that and felt like it was time to move on. Sound snobby? No, cause I respect were they are, it's just not where I am.

I know exactly where you are coming from here. I attended NA and AA meetings regularly for better than 14 years. About the 10th year I really started doubting that I was indeed any kind of "ism," but continued doing the same things. Not out of fear, but because I have learned through time that I tend to make hasty decisions that carry long term consequences. This was definitly not something I was going to play around with. The hellish thing is, who are you going to talk to about it? My long term "friends" in AA and NA? They just told me I was in denial and refused to listen. Someone in another post was talking about getting nothing but program dogma back about questions of the same sort. Ask a counselor? Same thing. I did have one agree with me that I wasn't a drunk or a dope fiend. He thought I was a sex addict. Yeah, right. Plus I could find nothing to feel bad about if indeed I was. So what! I guess I was fortunate that during college I developed some really meaningful relationships with persons, both male and female, that had never been told they had an "ism." I found they would listen to me and I could get unbiased feedback from them. The only issue was they had never seen me during my wilder days. I did have contact with some of the people that had been friends with me and talked to them about this and got a big, "Duh! So what's the problem?"

I just can't figure out why I won't make that change. Too comfortable perhaps......who knows, those are just my thoughts.

I only make turn in different directions when my desire to do something different overcomes the inertia of comfort. Otherly, if what I am doing is working, perhaps I shouldn't fix it.

Clay

[Anonymous]

"...a kinder,gentler,machine gun hand."
                       Neil Young
I would suggest reading, "Smoke and Mirrors:The War on Drugs and the Politics of Failure". Sorry, can't remember the author's name.
 

I heard the Nazis opened a new and "not the same as it used to be" concentration camp. Maybe you should attend one of their open meetings!

[Anonymous]

"Taking someone, depriving them of their freedom and dangling basic Human Rights in front of them like a carrot until they perform like circus monkies is Monstrous." Claydog

Well put, Clay. I envy and covet the power of your brain. Your quote here is to the point like a blunt force trauma. Hello? Straight sucked! But what I've come to understand is that Straight HAS evolved over the years, not entirely, but largely. Even in the years I was in 1988-1990, things changed dramatically. The kinder gentler Straight that is SAFE is the result of the original Straight becoming a "lawsuit hazard" in the eighties and early nineties. The violent factors have probably been curbed for a more reasonable approach, but I don't think it matters, if it is following the basic Straight modality, it is still inevitably a failure.

Most kids who are put into these programs for intervention are NOT addicts, they are just inducted into a group of people who learned to  chant that they are! They don't really belong in 12 step groups where the people hit serious lows. Not that AA or NA will run anybody away except Dave Chapelle in Half Baked, but it does matter if you are not an alcoholic or addict who spends the majority of his or her time with real recovering alcoholics and addicts. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to go to AA or NA if that's what you like, but you don't necessarily want to look for approval and company from these types. Some of them are very immoral sober people, for one. I have met some sorry ass sober people. If you are not an alcoholic or addict, you need (may want to think about) to hang out with people who have a life, that haven't hit bottom, that haven't lost it all and are trying to pick up the pieces of their life after the fact.

Look, I've spent my time in recovery circles, and it was fine. Really. But then a guy I knew from Straight told me to watch them and not to blindly trust them. I decided to observe in the meetings more, and you know what. They didn't have all that much that I really wanted. Some are okay, so I am not trying to say all AA's suck or something dumb like that. All I am saying is that you may want to evaluate your situation. Would you be in these scenes in the first place if you weren't put in treatment at a young age? Do you have trouble getting along with people outside these programs?

You may be able to do better than that is all I'm saying. If I sound overly critical of AA's, I'm not trying to, I still know some and consider them friends, but I do not attend AA today, and NOW I am sober. I wasn't able to stay sober when I went to meetings alot. Ironic. Anyway, there is life after treatment and AA/NA and I am living proof. I am not going to call myself an "alcoholic" or a "recovering alcoholic" BECAUSE THOSE WORDS DO NOT DESCRIBE ME, DEFINE ME, OR APPLY TO ME IN ANY WAY AT ALL! I don't drink because I don't want to drink and AA didn't do it for me, neither Straight Inc.-I just happen to know someone High Up that knows how to honk my horn to the tune of Dixie! Yee-haw!

Good luck, Jennifer Pepper Aguilera, in finding your new unscrewed up friends outside of the 12 step taverns and whorehouses and definitely way outside the OM's. Sincerely, Scott

Disclaimer: These are my thoughts. Do what you feel is right for you if you didn't already know that.

[Anonymous]

I just read the post before Clay's where you said you quit AA for 2 years, boy, do I feel like a dumbass. But it sounds like you are on the right track if you were able to figure that much out. You don't have to drink or take drugs to "find out" whether or not you're an alkie or druggie. So don't be afraid to think that you aren't because not being an addict doesn't automatically mean you have to get high either, you know? It just means you don't have to depend on recovery programs to feel good about your life or stable. I am glad to hear that you quit 12 step programs because alot of people get dependent on them and they are afraid to move on from it for fear of relapse, that isn't living, in my view.

I also object to confessing "I am an alcoholic" every day as if this is the sum total of who we are. You go into an AA meeting and say "I don't know who I am. Who am I?" They will answer you, "you are an alcoholic". It's quite sad. "Is that all I am?" "Yes, we're all exactly the same, now read 'How it Works' and shut up before you give us all the willies with your terminal uniqueness."

[Anonymous]

People who are involved in AA tragically limit themselves to only other people involved in these programs.  In other words they are ADDICTED to the program.  A good psychotherapist (NOT counseling) can help anyone understand why they did drugs to begin with.  IT is not a genetic disease.  There has never been any gene that has been found.  Finding out why you are the way you are and why you do what you do is phenomenal. You then have the power over your life.  It is hard though to bring up and talk about and feel your past in therapy but it will liberate you from your anxiety, fears, rage, that you now feel.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-02 05:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"People who are involved in AA tragically limit themselves to only other people involved in these programs.  In other words they are ADDICTED to the program.  

It may be wise to remember that Straight Incorporated was born from The Seed. The Seed was founded by an AA devotee named Art Barker. There have been many offshoots of AA that have become cult-like and dangerous. The Seed was but one. Straight, Inc. was nothing more than a continuation of this dangerous AA offshoot. Those that blindly follow AA are no better than those that blindly follow anything.

[Anonymous]

The part I found in AA/NA, that truly angers-saddens me is that when I stopped espousing the program dogma and talking about how NA/AA saved my life, all the supposed friends in these programs evaporated. They stopped talking to me, listening to me, hanging out with me, ahowing me the basic respect due most humans. At one point I found that most of the recovery guru's in NA were sleeping with my girlfriend. Needless to say this is when I found a therapist and started making friends outside these programs. Talk about feeling betrayed! Anyway, I started pay keen attention to persons I met. This is also the worst point in my life after straight and when I started seeing a therapist. I, as suggested by one of the anon's, started looking at root causes, what caused me to be the way I am. I do not believe in being doomed by genetics and do believe the way people turn out is a combination of choices and predispositions. I think no mental disorders are permanent except for the organic ones.

Just my opinions

CL

[ClayL]

Yep, the above is me. Oops!

CL

[Anonymous]

I just had to comment about the thread's title, I know it has been posted for quite some time but "I attended an open meeting this month" is a damn disturbing statement analagous to "I decapitated a prostitute last night" or "I had sex with my uncle yesterday"...chilling.
 :scared:

[mcadaret]

Anon,

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. I would no sooner walk into an open meeting now than I would stick a feather up my ass and fly.

I do however have a sick fantasy of showing up at "THE BUILDING" in my clerical collar and kicking some Executive Staff Ass. Just a little fantasy from the resident ordained minister on the forum.

your bro,
Michael

You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job

[Anonymous]

If you need to get sober, AA can help, but only so far, in my view. It is limited, but it may be better than crazy drunk behavior. My point is that with AA, you NEVER graduate! You are to be meeting dependent forever or you are JUST WRONG!
Who made that rule up? In the early days of AA, they didn't have but MAYBE one meeting a month. The alcoholic had to basically shoulder most of the burden of staying sober and didn't have to check in with other recovering drunk three times a day. Now, it has morphed into an exclusive society with no relevance to the rest of society.

Poor Claydog's sponsor was probably one of the one's banging his girlfriend. I tell you them guys are degenerate giggolo sobriety chip freaky dekey's. You can't trust them $@#$% weirdos. It's like get away from me you crazy psychos, keep your nasty principles off of my girlfriend's chin! No offense, Clay, I just empathize. That's just awful how they can act so "upstanding" and be so lowdown on the sly.

To New Beginnings ::cheers::

[Anonymous]

I spent 13 hours in SAFE a year or so ago...just observing.   Needless to say, I didn't feel so good when I left, nor did I sleep well for some time after.