Author Topic: I attended an open meeting this month  (Read 13360 times)

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Offline Antigen

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I attended an open meeting this month
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2003, 07:29:00 PM »
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What harm would it be to may be entertain the thought that it is different.

Hmm, let's see. Does that apply to other instances of criminal behavior? How about to child molesting? What harm could come from entertaining the idea that your babysitter might have changed his ways and given up his sexual interest in toddlers? How about wife beaters. Aw, go ahead! People change and you know you love him. Just give it one more try and see if this time he doesn't beat you black and blue. What harm could possibly come from trusting unrepentant criminals to just quit being unrepentant criminals?

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Well I guess same goes for me.....I can entertain the fact that some of you can't and won't let it go.  ok.  But I leave this forum with this....you will NEVER rid the world of programs like SAFE, you will not be the reason SAFE closes, it just won't happen.  DOn't you think they have met more agressive people like you and yes some have closed, or have they?  So good luck. "

"In 1978, did we have internet? Did we have a lot of things that we have today?  No, because like all things we have evolved...."

We're also not children any more. We're adults with children of our own, jobs, homes, businesses and all the credibility that goes along with it.

You can keep on telling yourself that we're just bitter druggies who can't get over something that happened 20 years ago. But, deep down, I think you know how lame that is. We're just responsible adults who know what it's like to be a child held by a cult of manic, sadistic abstinance freaks and we're responsible enough to not stand by and let it go when we see it happening now. So... what's your excuse? Oh yeah.

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On 2003-06-23 07:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

I have been going to the building and attending open meetings for 4 or 5 years, it was just the first time my mom wanted to attend.


In other words, you've never left the cult. You're still a 'member in good standing'. Maybe if you'd get a little didtance and perspective, you'd see what the vast majority of us do.


BTW, don't you feel a little funny hanging onto the Program after all these years? I mean, most people who graduate eventually go on to get a life? How come you're still going to OMs?

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and peace. And covers with the shield of it's protection all classes of men at all times and under all circumstances.
--US Supreme Court, Ex Parte Milligan



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Offline sammiegirl

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I attended an open meeting this month
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2003, 02:57:00 PM »
Greg,

Wonderfuly put. Thank you for finding the words I would like to have expressed myself.
I remember the protest last year and my dealings woth Mr. Seeber I for one do not trust Mr. Seeber and would never let him have any say in the care of my children
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ND THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2003, 09:50:00 PM »
BTW, don't you feel a little funny hanging onto the Program after all these years? I mean, most people who graduate eventually go on to get a life? How come you're still going to OMs?


Actually, no I don't feel funny.  I think we all choose our own ways of dealing with things. I could never get over not graduating after 2 1/2 years, it was a big issue for me.  I went to AA meetings and there they were, people to relate to so we hung out.  I have hung out with several generations of graduates.  I felt comfort with them.  I guess if you see that as not having a "life", that's ok.  For me I see it as the way I choose to survive.  I have read your story, Antigen and I have nothing but respect for you and what you have been through. What I went through doesn't compare by any means.  Maybe it's a little harsh for me to expect people to feel the same way I do.  I wish I could take away everyones pain, I know it sucks. I was just trying to help I guess.   Peace to all.
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Offline ehm

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I attended an open meeting this month
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2003, 10:10:00 PM »
Jennifer,
I'd put money down on -  ::rainbow::
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2003, 10:04:00 AM »
Pepper, this is a forum and you are entitled to say whatever you want to. Those that take offense to your opinion and words are not acting in the spirit of an open forum.

That being said, I find it more than interesting that you would, after being released from the program without graduating, hang out at AA meetings and open meetings at SAFE, and still talking about how the progam saved you.

I too have my doubts about you being an addict. I take that back,perhaps you are addicted to the program...a program Junkie? This is just a random observation not based on anything substantial, Pepper, I just get this feeling that it may be true.

If you truly feel comfortable around people speaking and acting in cultic fashion and helpless children in captivity, then perhaps you should think about why. I for one am creeped out whenever I get around program people, and seeing those kids in group was way over the top. It brought back memories of a ruined childhood for me. And by the way, SAFE today has more in common with the Seed than you are letting on. the changes for the most part are superficial. The cultic modality based on reward/humiliation/compliance/punishment/assimilation remains intact. The people running the show there didn't even realize where most of their techniques originated from.

Funny how the same experience is perceived so differently by two people, eh?

A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa

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Offline ehm

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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2003, 10:11:00 AM »
I * ::heart:: * smart people!  :nworthy:
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2003, 10:50:00 AM »
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On 2003-06-23 06:26:00, mo wrote:

I was invited to a Mary Kay 'thingy' recently. It was crowded with women who looked very eager to sell something. I took one step into the main room and see rows of chairs. I had a near anxiety attack and had to leave. I have pretty severe trama issues if I can't even go to a Mary Kay meeting without hating it for thinking it was like a cult. I like Clinique anyway.


You know, this is a result of the program that I have carried with me for 30 years. I hate groups of people. I refuse to sit in chairs lined up in rows. Self help groups creep me out beyond belief, and anytime there is a group of people and a speaker, I am uncomfortable. For years, when talked into going to church, I would act like a child and often get up and excuse myself and wait outside, and I NEVER understood why I was so full of anxiety in these situations. Mostly I didn't understand why because I had closed the section of my brain that consciously dealt with my experience at the seed.

So here I am 30 years later. I won't join the rotary, I won't join the chamber of commerce, I have turned down repeated offers to speak , and I won't get up in front of any group and tell them how I feel about anything. And, the funny thing is,  It took me about 25 years to figure out why.


 :silly:

Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.
-- John Muir

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2003, 11:29:00 AM »
W O R D.
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Offline Antigen

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I attended an open meeting this month
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2003, 11:38:00 AM »
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On 2003-06-24 18:50:00, Anonymous (Pepper) wrote:
I wish I could take away everyones pain, I know it sucks. I was just trying to help I guess.   Peace to all.


Thanks, but I've got it handled. I'll admit it was tough at first, striking out into the world as an escapee from an alleged drug rehab with little support, no education and a nagging neurosis over so many things. Where was all the Straightling love 20 years ago? Oh yeah, that's right. They were trying to have me arrested and court ordered back into the gulag. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I'd actually had an addiction to deal with at the time.

But that was 20 years ago; before my dad defected from the cult, before I became a mother, before I married my husband, build a business, bought a house and all the rest.

I'm not doing this--the forum and other muck raking--to treat some relentless pain over things past.

To draw an allegory, if I see a house on fire, I listen for sirens. If I hear the sirens, I know they've got it handled so I might get out my camera and take pictures to sell to the local paper. If I don't hear the sirens, I don't have time to take pictures. I'm calling the fire department. It's not some strange response to early trauma involving fire. I like to think that if anyone saw my house buring down they'd do the same; if only for their own safety to prevent it spreading to the next house.

As I've said dozens of times before, I'm doing this because I found out that this same cult is still messing with kids, largely on public (my)funding and in defiance of law. Very few people who haven't been through it first-hand really understand what's going on there, so few are sounding an alarm. It's different from crimes like robery, rape and securities fraud. Everyone clearly understands that those are crimes and the victims are entitled to redress. Nothing I have to do there but read the headlines and pull for the good guys.

But this is different. Every day, this industry shanghais and tortures hundreds and thousands of kids right out in the open. They even advertise mercinary kidnapping services that use shackles and drugs to abduct young adults without a warrant or trial. And most people just say "ah well, ya' know, teenagers can be 'difficult'"  :eek: Difficult!

Jenny, just a year ago a kid tried to make a run for the picket line after open meeting. According to some folks who used to do a lot of picketting, that happens a whole lot. I'm sure that if the Sarasota branch had had protestors, I would have anguished over whether or not to give it a shot and certainly wouldn't have tried very hard to stop anyone who did.

Right in front of all the parents, group members tackled this kid to the ground and stuffed him, kicking and screaming, into a car. The parent driving the car then fled the scene before the cops could arrive. When the cops got there, Brian and some other parents presented some other kid to lie to them and tell them it had been him pretending to try and run, but he'd just been fooling around. (what's the first and most impotent rule??) We all have a pretty good idea what the other kid's next week or so was probably like. But there's no help for him or a few thousand others like him. The cops bought the utterly transparant fiction and stonewalled, refusing to initiate any serious investigation.

I have to confess, it pisses me off that people like you continue to help these sadistic lunatics cover up their crimes. I have a pretty good idea why you do it and I know there's not an ounce of mallice behind it. I think you're just duped. And that's sad.

In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.  But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2003, 12:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-06-25 07:50:00, GregFL wrote:


You know, this is a result of the program that I have carried with me for 30 years. I hate groups of people. I refuse to sit in chairs lined up in rows. Self help groups creep me out beyond belief, and anytime there is a group of people and a speaker, I am uncomfortable.


Me 2. Before the program, I sucked at math. It took me 2 tries + summer school to pass Algebra I. I also aced almost every other course I ever took, except for French, without trying. The only other difficulty I had was with essay questions (I shit you not!) How do you ever know when you're done? Or whether or not you're giving the answer the teacher was looking for? I mean, an open ended question can have almost infinite correct answers.

The one thing I excelled at was anything on stage. That helped me immensely in getting through the program. I invented a character, Virginia, who could play the part convincingly and without any thought or hesitation. But it totaly ruined me for anything like acting or public speaking.

I learned how to be painfully self concious, which had been a totally foreign concept to the kid who'd existed in my previous life. It's fun to act or make a speech when the audience is in on the deception and the stakes are only applause or not. And you can always just forget those incidents when the applause didn't come through just as soon as you figure out why. It's an entirely different game when the stakes are higher and the decpetion is secret. Some people get off on that, but I'm not one of them.

On the other hand, in the interest of doing with what you have, I can think of a couple of times in my adult life when my hyper-sensitivity to cultishness probably saved me a whole lot of trouble.

There was the time when my boyfriend's brother talked us into attenting 'Bible Study' with The Way, Internatonal. Or the time I went to apply for a retail job only to be herded with a batch of 15 or so other hopeful applicants through their rah-rah session then turned out with 'experienced salesmen' to learn how to break those quotas and earn those perfs!!

I was so amazed at what I saw, I actually agreed to go along for the day just to find out how far they'd take it. It was amazing! My assigned mentor informed me that, after only 2 months, he'd already sold or borrowed against all of his assets and his wife was divorcing him. But he was strong, you see, and determined to get rich through door-to-door cheap perfume sales! He would NOT be weak and let anyone keep him from his grand asspirations!

I finally had had enough when, at around 6 or 7PM, he still hadn't met his quota and couldn't go back without having met it or they would doc his commissions for the unsold goods. He also would have lost his unpaid commissions if he'd taken me back to the office (and my car) without having met his quota. I don't think he was supposed to confide these things in me.
 
So we learn from our mistakes. I do wish I could stomach regular toastmaster meetings and the like. But, on the other hand, there's a lot of cultism in our society. And I can't help being thankful for having been made pretty much allergic to it. And there's no way in God's green Earth that I would be a programer or a freelance writer otherwise. And I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out.

 

America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg



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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline METALGOD8

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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2003, 06:44:00 PM »
Well, by this time next year, that safe place may not exist anymore. Who knows? It may sound cruel to take a support group away from people who are still using it, but sometimes things like this happen, and in safe's case, it is necessary.

MG8 :smokin:
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2003, 11:50:00 PM »
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. I can't have those conversations without getting really annoyed, even when those conversations are truly needed to mend a friendship/relationship.


Yes, I too try to avoid and dread these sort of conversations. Hate 'em. And, if I only knew then what I know now! When I was going to marriage counseling, it was before I had visited these boards. I never thought of mentioning straight, never considered the effects of it on me, etc...
Being put on the spot about "how I feel" about something makes me  :flame: (gee, wonder why?) It's good to know I'm not the only one. Maybe there's a reason for how "fucked-up" I can be at times... :silly: Anyway, it sure is weird how my outlook on MY life has 'sobered' since I've been visiting these boards, no pun intended...I look back with less romanticized longing for younger days. Does that make sense? I used to wish I could go backwards. To just party till I drop...
never a care...now, I really do look back diffently. At my entire life after straight, I mean... :???:   :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2003, 09:55:00 AM »
Ginger's story
I was so amazed at what I saw, I actually agreed to go along for the day just to find out how far they'd take it. It was amazing! My assigned mentor informed me that, after only 2 months, he'd already sold or borrowed against all of his assets and his wife was divorcing him. But he was strong, you see, and determined to get rich through door-to-door cheap perfume sales! He would NOT be weak and let anyone keep him from his grand asspirations!

 :smokin:
 
Damnit Ginger, these new buttons make me aggressive!!!!!!!!!! Fuck it, I'm sayin' it!!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2003, 09:58:00 AM »
uh oh, well who could have written the above post???? hmmmm, let's see...

could it have been..........S A T A N ? :wave:
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2003, 10:44:00 AM »
Nope, wasn't me...although I appeciate the hateful scorn...  :smokin:
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