Denise Woodbury Weighs in on Pinto Study

[ZenAgent]

It's not even the same guy. This Who isn't the pre-October 20th Who. I think the old one got fired and now they have someone higher up writing the shill posts.

Probably because, with rapidly declining income due to negative publicity on the Internet and the assrape of the GAO hearings, they couldn't afford him anymore.

I agree.  Some masochism drove me to read through the old Who thread last night - the previous Who was much more shrill and prone to fits of anger, not nearly as frou-frou and bitchy as this New Who, v.2.1

[TheWho]

Gee, Who - you'd think your "good" programs would be blazing a path toward reasonable safety guidelines for the not-so-good programs to aspire to.

No, you need to understand the business a little better.  The good programs don’t want the bad ones to get better…its best to just expose them, let them go out of business and then fill the void with a better school.

All NATSAP has done is whine and mewl, and Catherine Freer's people have arrogantly insulted every program survivor. You've got to find some leadership, D.S.[/

Never heard of this freer person until recently, but NATSAP doesn’t have the power to close or change programs.  Over the next decade they will have little influence over the industry, if any, unless they quit dragging their feet.  If major changes are going to take place it will be by the government or from within.



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[Troll Control]

It's not even the same guy. This Who isn't the pre-October 20th Who. I think the old one got fired and now they have someone higher up writing the shill posts.

Probably because, with rapidly declining income due to negative publicity on the Internet and the assrape of the GAO hearings, they couldn't afford him anymore.

I agree.  Some masochism drove me to read through the old Who thread last night - the previous Who was much more shrill and prone to fits of anger, not nearly as frou-frou and bitchy as this New Who, v.2.1

No, it's the same old asshole.  He just understands that his credibility is in the toilet due to his previous posts and he's trying to reinvent himself and put time and space between his recent posts and the old ones.  But, make no mistake, it's the same tired, hackneyed jerkoff with the same dilapidated rhetoric.

[Anne Bonney]

It's not even the same guy. This Who isn't the pre-October 20th Who. I think the old one got fired and now they have someone higher up writing the shill posts.

Probably because, with rapidly declining income due to negative publicity on the Internet and the assrape of the GAO hearings, they couldn't afford him anymore.

I agree.  Some masochism drove me to read through the old Who thread last night - the previous Who was much more shrill and prone to fits of anger, not nearly as frou-frou and bitchy as this New Who, v.2.1

No, it's the same old asshole.  He just understands that his credibility is in the toilet due to his previous posts and he's trying to reinvent himself and put time and space between his recent posts and the old ones.  But, make no mistake, it's the same tired, hackneyed jerkoff with the same dilapidated rhetoric.

That's what I'm thinking too.

[Anonymous]

I would not take Ms. Woodbury's "opinion" seriously, simply because their is a conflict of interest involved.  She is married to Lon Woodbury.

I would rather hear from someone who doesn't have personal ties to the industry.

I shall never forget writing to former Governor Rose Mofford, Arizona, along with three other Mom's to follow, only to find out years later that Ms. Mofford sat on the Board of Directors for Arizona Boys Ranch.

This is like having the wolf in sheeps clothing guarding the hen house.

I find it kind of peculiar behavior when a person throws around their law degree.  Kind of reminds me of Sue Scheff.

No one has the right to disreguard the FACT that MANY children have suffered in this out-of-control industry.  This is a Chrildren's Civil Rightslit issue that should be brought to a Supreme Court level.  I would like to see Ms. Woodbury and her law degree in such a court room.  How many children have been neglected, abused, tortorured and died in one of the programs supported and promoted by Educational Consultants.  I'm afraid we shall never know because, "Who's watching the Children?  Who's counting how many have been neglected, abused and tortorured.  There needs to be a Federal regulated Clearing House keeping track.  Better yet, a law to hold these people accountable, starting with legislators on down to those who are directly in contact with the child.  There are eight sides to a STOP SIGN.  I have used a stop sign in my crusade many times.  I had no problem filling all eight sides with those who are partly culpable for what is happening to children all over the world in the name of help and whatever..............

Now I'm feeling angry!

Time to go do something else.  I sound like a broken record again.

Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc.
Catherine

[Anonymous]

I would not take Ms. Woodbury's "opinion" seriously, simply because their is a conflict of interest involved.  She is married to Lon Woodbury.

I would rather hear from someone who doesn't have personal ties to the industry.

I shall never forget writing to former Governor Rose Mofford, Arizona, along with three other Mom's to follow, only to find out years later that Ms. Mofford sat on the Board of Directors for Arizona Boys Ranch.

This is like having the wolf in sheeps clothing guarding the hen house.

I find it kind of peculiar behavior when a person throws around their law degree.  Kind of reminds me of Sue Scheff.

No one has the right to disreguard the FACT that MANY children have suffered in this out-of-control industry.  This is a Chrildren's Civil Rightslit issue that should be brought to a Supreme Court level.  I would like to see Ms. Woodbury and her law degree in such a court room.  How many children have been neglected, abused, tortorured and died in one of the programs supported and promoted by Educational Consultants.  I'm afraid we shall never know because, "Who's watching the Children?  Who's counting how many have been neglected, abused and tortorured.  There needs to be a Federal regulated Clearing House keeping track.  Better yet, a law to hold these people accountable, starting with legislators on down to those who are directly in contact with the child.  There are eight sides to a STOP SIGN.  I have used a stop sign in my crusade many times.  I had no problem filling all eight sides with those who are partly culpable for what is happening to children all over the world in the name of help and whatever..............

Now I'm feeling angry!

Time to go do something else.  I sound like a broken record again.

Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc.
Catherine

Very Well Said :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

[Anonymous]

Gee, Who - you'd think your "good" programs would be blazing a path toward reasonable safety guidelines for the not-so-good programs to aspire to.

No, you need to understand the business a little better.  The good programs don’t want the bad ones to get better…its best to just expose them, let them go out of business and then fill the void with a better school.

All NATSAP has done is whine and mewl, and Catherine Freer's people have arrogantly insulted every program survivor. You've got to find some leadership, D.S.[/

Never heard of this freer person until recently, but NATSAP doesn’t have the power to close or change programs.  Over the next decade they will have little influence over the industry, if any, unless they quit dragging their feet.  If major changes are going to take place it will be by the government or from within.



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You insult Zen by saying he doesn't understand the nature of the bid'ness, and then say something completely idiotic about "this Freer person"?  You should learn a little more about the industry you're defending, pal.  You're starting to reveal the smoke and mirrors.

[TheWho]

You insult Zen by saying he doesn't understand the nature of the bid'ness, and then say something completely idiotic about "this Freer person"? You should learn a little more about the industry you're defending, pal. You're starting to reveal the smoke and mirrors.

Zen has never insulted me and I would never insult him….so that didnt happen.  So you are one up on me by knowing Kathy freer, I have never met her and I feel I am getting along okay.  I don’t defend the industry nor claim to know a whole lot about it, but I think we are all still learning (I know I am).  



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[Nihilanthic]

don’t defend the industry nor claim to know a whole lot about it

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

don’t defend the industry nor claim to know a whole lot about it

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

You don't "know a whole lot about it?" Then why are you constantly trying to juggle and cook numbers on violence in public schools vs. RTC's, completely avoiding one of the key reasons why parents pay an RTC to store their kids?  They think they're paying for a safe environment and licensed, responsible caregivers.  The newspapers are rife with stories of death, rape and abuse taking place in programmes, quite often due to unqualified, unlicensed staff.  Staff who's experience, educational backgrounds and licensures the programmes fraudulently misrepresent to parents.

Oh, I forgot, juggling and cooking numbers is your thing.

No, you need to understand the business a little better.

That was very telling.  You don't much about programmes, but you know the business well.

Back on topic.  Go read about Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Programs so you'll quit looking like an ass.  Maybe you need to follow an honored programmy - AA maxim:  Shut up and listen, you might learn.

Attacking Dr. Pinto's survey for asking questions about aversive techniques while Woodbury's own survey totally avoided the issue is a bit immature, don't you think?  

Don't respond, think about it.

[TheWho]

You don't "know a whole lot about it?" Then why are you constantly trying to juggle and cook numbers on violence in public schools vs. RTC's, completely avoiding one of the key reasons why parents pay an RTC to store their kids? They think they're paying for a safe environment and licensed, responsible caregivers. The newspapers are rife with stories of death, rape and abuse taking place in programmes, quite often due to unqualified, unlicensed staff. Staff who's experience, educational backgrounds and licensures the programmes fraudulently misrepresent to parents.

Oh, I forgot, juggling and cooking numbers is your thing.

Seems you are still learning yourself. I presented raw numbers, no one was cooking the data that I was aware of or atleast I wasnt presented that result.  The results just dont present the way people would like them to here.  That’s why fornits is long on stories and short on data.

Parents are paying for a safe environment and that is what they are getting.  20,000 kids a year attend these schools and we have a handful of people who post here who had bad experiences, with the majority of the information dating back 30 years.

Not sure which papers you read but many of the schools are proven safe havens.  All the newspapers are rife with stories about the public schools (2,500 kids sexually abused by their teachers, who are licensed by the way, over the past 5 years).  You don’t see numbers like that in the private schools.



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[try another castle]

Let's see... where did Ginger hide this again?


Oh wait, here it is..

[hanzomon4]

The GAO identified 1,619 incidents of child abuse in programs that were reported to the Department of Health and Human Services in 2005 alone , but reporting is voluntary and not all states comply. And you say that  20,000 kids a year attend these schools compared to the millions that attend public school, I'd say statistically speaking programs are pretty unsafe by comparison.

[TheWho]

Let's see... where did Ginger hide this again?


Oh wait, here it is..

Hey, that’s funny, thanks I saved the link!!  I have someone who would enjoy that.
 
I feel like I am pounding my head against the wall…….  We have an industry (our public school system)  which is highly regulated with licensed teachers and reporting systems coming out of our ears and the kids are not being protected… we have thousands committing suicide, thousands being sexually abused by the licensed teachers and nut cases here on fornits want to use this as a model template for the private school industry!!!  

Is this wacked or what?  



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[TheWho]

The GAO identified 1,619 incidents of child abuse in programs that were reported to the Department of Health and Human Services in 2005 alone , but reporting is voluntary and not all states comply. And you say that  20,000 kids a year attend these schools compared to the millions that attend public school, I'd say statistically speaking programs are pretty unsafe by comparison.

We would have to compare this to how many kids are abused in the public sector.  I havent seen that number.

I think that number includes military style boot camps and the such which may be included in the public sectors numbers, it will be interesting to see the data when it becomes available and how many of those are from Therapeutic Boarding schools.



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