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Author Topic: idea, inspired by over the gw. the grassroots effort thread.  (Read 25336 times)

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Offline Che Gookin

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idea, inspired by over the gw. the grassroots effort thread.
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2007, 03:10:15 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
what if the kid went to a shelter like covenant house? would they turn them in?


That is a damn good question. Why don't you call and ask? I'd really love to know the answer.

Seriously.. I'd call myself but ummm lols.. I'm in the middle of Asia.

please give em a call.. I think they have a toll free number.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2007, 08:40:52 AM »
Death sentence for parents sending their kids to programs on fornits shit list (if there isn't one, then fucking make one.) No questions asked.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2007, 10:27:04 AM »
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Some kids also have the option of seeking out their family which might be near the program. If the kid explains to their other family members, who are not brainashed in program seminars, they might keep the child. We've seen that situation play out on forntis a few times before. I would say that is an ideal solution. Even more ideal if the family member goes and picks the kid up before they run and possibly get a lesson in humanity they might have better done without.


This can be a thorny issue for the wider family.On one hand is the idea that a parent should educate their child however they see fit, which makes the wider family very reluctant to intervene. But yes I would recommend a kid find a sympathetic relative who can harbour them and try to help negotiate some sort of peaceful and safe solution with the parents
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2007, 10:42:10 AM »
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Yes I agree the kid is pretty much screwed. Look above your post and that shows What about a kid who refuses to work a real job, whose only experience with making money is dealing drugs, or a kid who can't wait to get high day in and day out once he's out of there?


I think if you are going to set up a system of helping kids out you need to be open minded and expect there will be all kinds, those who want to work, those who dont, those who just want to deal drugs, those who are motivated etc.   You need to think thru all the possibilities.  I had a friend who paid for most of his college tuition by dealing drugs and he refused to work at fast food places.  Kids come in all shapes and sizes, they are not all alike and you need to be prepared for that.

If you are going to take in kids you need to define the conditions of who or what you are able to handle:

Kids who dont want to work
Kids who were previously involved in prostitution
Kids who are on special medication (diabetics, depression), how will you get the drugs for them.
Kids who are violent
Kids who are under aged and scared
Kids who need special diets.

Do you select the types of kids you take in?  or take them all and hope for the best.

When they dug escape tunnels in Germany, they knew they couldn’t take the 400 lb guy or some of the mentally ill people or those with claustrophobia etc. they needed to be selective on who went to insure success.  

Anyway I am rambling...my point is that the question the guest asked was a good one and you need to be open minded enough and secure enough to accept input from everyone...you need to explore all the possibilities of how it can fail before you can implement a system which will be successful.


...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2007, 12:14:24 PM »
we would take in children under the assuption that they are Human Beings. if they fail to act as such, they shall be dismissed.

the only real issue is medication and diet. the kid should think about these things beforehand. diabetes is not a problem because so many people have it, getting a temporary supply of insulin is very easy.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2007, 12:21:39 PM »
aiding and abetting minors, securing medical treatment for minors?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2007, 07:14:20 PM »
it's not aiding and abetting if the parents dont press charges. the only thing illegal the kids would be doing is running away, usually from an abusive situation. if the kid doesnt do anything else illegal, the only possible negative legal outcome would be that if he is reported as a runaway, and is picked up by the cops, he'll be held untill his parents/the school picks them up. if the kid had help, the parents can potentially charge kidnapping, but the chances of that would be slim to none, as there would not be any case. the kid would come looking for help out of his own free will, and we would not be holding him against his will (unlike the program).

of course there are legal loopholes through which you could potentially be prosecuted, any self-respecting lawyer would be able to get a case like this dropped in 2 seconds flat. (by self-respecting i mean not state appointed)  

just make sure you dont give kids any drugs, have sex with them, or help them with any illegal activity, actually make sure that one of the terms of you helping them is if they abstain from all illegal or even questionable activity themselves, with or without you. By helping kids, I mean strictly provide food, a roof over their head, some clean clothes, medical treatment, emotional support, and help with negatiating with the parents to pull the kid out, or help the kid get in touch with other family members who take take him in instead.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2007, 08:41:15 PM »
Quote
it's not aiding and abetting if the parents dont press charges.

This is actually incorrect, it is a crime whether or not the parents get involved, here is one definition:
Where available, aiding and abetting liability generally requires three elements: 1) an underlying violation by a principal; 2) knowledge of that violation and/or the intent to facilitate the violation; and 3) assistance to the principal in the violation.

Quote
the only thing illegal the kids would be doing is running away, usually from an abusive situation. if the kid doesnt do anything else illegal, the only possible negative legal outcome would be that if he is reported as a runaway, and is picked up by the cops, he'll be held untill his parents/the school picks them up. if the kid had help, the parents can potentially charge kidnapping, but the chances of that would be slim to none, as there would not be any case. the kid would come looking for help out of his own free will, and we would not be holding him against his will (unlike the program).

of course there are legal loopholes through which you could potentially be prosecuted, any self-respecting lawyer would be able to get a case like this dropped in 2 seconds flat. (by self-respecting i mean not state appointed)

just make sure you dont give kids any drugs, have sex with them, or help them with any illegal activity, actually make sure that one of the terms of you helping them is if they abstain from all illegal or even questionable activity themselves, with or without you. By helping kids, I mean strictly provide food, a roof over their head, some clean clothes, medical treatment, emotional support, and help with negatiating with the parents to pull the kid out, or help the kid get in touch with other family members who take take him in instead.

This is not very good advice, sorry to butt in…..  if you take in a child that has run away from the people or school or institution that is legally caring for that child and you fail to report it to the authorities in a reasonable time frame (within hours) then you will go to jail..period.  The minute you decide not to call the authorities you have taken a huge conscience step to kidnap this child and if anything ever happens to that child, i.e. falls off a skate board, down the steps, bad reaction to peanuts, you would go to a federal prison.
If you feel a child is being abused, you may feel an obligation to take the child in and get them to a safe area at which time you need to notify the authorities.  If you don’t you are putting yourself and family at a huge risk… if the families do not sue you may do only jail time…if they do sue you you could lose your home and most of your liquid assets.

If you are talking about kids who are over 18 then you may be okay in many cases.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2007, 08:57:46 PM »
Shut the fuck up Who. Nobody on this forum believes what you spout anyway.

Real advice:

Don't let the fucking kid be found. Let him pick another name. Completely alter his identity. If you have the resources to get fake ID use them, but don't rely on it. Ideally no one should be even asking who he is.

He shouldn't contact his parents, or anyone else, until well after he's 18 and lives far from you. If his family thinks he's dead so much the better.

Hiding someone properly, especially a teenager, while letting them have a semblance of a normal life takes panache and skill.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2007, 09:22:06 PM »
I would want to encourage the kid to try and keep in contact with the family where possible. Not just the parents either. Therefore i would have them ring mum and dad to let them know they are OK and hopefully to set some kind of communication pattern in place. I would not put them back at risk by sending them home as people have told me that this has usually landed a kid back in a program. But cutting yourself off from your own family all together is an extreme action that needs to considered extremely carefully.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2007, 09:28:28 PM »
Don't be a fucking idiot Oz Girl.

You know what happens? The parents lie. The program tells them to lie. Then they start trying to trace communications. They tell pleasant-sounding lies like "we won't ever try to send you away if you come back", "we hope you'll forgive us", etc.

The kid cannot trust them. They are no longer his family. Attempting to keep them in contact is a one-way ticket to hell. Ideally his first contact with them will be when he's 18 and suing them.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2007, 09:45:38 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't be a fucking idiot Oz Girl.

You know what happens? The parents lie. The program tells them to lie. Then they start trying to trace communications. They tell pleasant-sounding lies like "we won't ever try to send you away if you come back", "we hope you'll forgive us", etc.

The kid cannot trust them. They are no longer his family. Attempting to keep them in contact is a one-way ticket to hell. Ideally his first contact with them will be when he's 18 and suing them.



Most people here on fornits are fighting to get the schools to provide more communication between the students and their parents.  To cut off or further limit their contact would be a huge step backwards........
Sounds like you may have had a bad experience with your family and I am sorry for that, but most families are not that way…they are supportive of each other.  Sure the parents will want to insure their child is safe and will need some sort of assurance that this is so or they will attempt to track them down to help them… you need to be very careful and understand your intent and the child’s wishes, you should encourage the contact between the child and parents as soon as possible.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2007, 09:52:03 PM »
Quote
Ideally his first contact with them will be when he's 18 and suing them.

IDEALLY?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2007, 10:07:55 PM »
Legal Rights and Options for Runaway Teens

http://www.lsc-sf.org/publications/runa ... evised.pdf
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2007, 10:30:39 PM »
things would be handled on a case by case basis. there shouldnt be a step system where every kid gets the same treatment. different kids have different families and situations.

more often than not there are family members who dissaprove of the kid getting sent away but cant and dont do anything about it. i'm sure after a little educational session about program X they would be willing to side with the kid.

we may need a lawyer specializing in family issues like custody to work probono for us. i'm sure with enough searching we'll find a lawyer with good intentions. and custody laws can be very flexible, remember, steven tyler legally got custody of an underage girl he had a sexual relationship with.

and dont forget, a kid can always move for emancipation.
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