idea, inspired by over the gw. the grassroots effort thread.

[TheWho]

what if you told the physician or whoever it is who does the routine physical that you were raped by the staffer who did the strip search (even if isn't true) - they'd be a mandatory reporter - once the cops are there you could make stuff up (or tell true stories) about your parents abusing you and by law they'd hafta investigate - could that stall the placement?

I wouldn’t encourage kids doing this anymore than they presently are.  This is already a big problem at some of these schools.  Kids that do this are doing a huge disservice to the kids who have been raped or are really sick.  Each time there is a false report or false alarm the response time gets slower and slower and the reports less and less credible, its just human nature.  Imagine if every child in your local high school claimed they were being abused by a particular teacher and it turns out that each time it is because they want to get out of doing their homework or detention.  After a handful of these reports turning up false if a child was abused they would have a hard time getting someone to believe them.

Who, what do you mean by "anymore than they presently are"?  Are you trying to justify kids getting abused and dying in these shitpits that you love so much.

[Anonymous]

shutup the who. must i say it again? your an idiot. just like johnny ringo, you try to make it seem like you know what you're talking about but 99% of the time you dont have the slightest clue, and further make yourself sound like and idiot.

the boy who cried wolf story doesnt apply here.


if every kid started claiming they were getting raped at the strip searches, regardless of weather or not they are truly being raped, just feel like they are, or have a grudge, it would hint to the cops that there really IS something going on, and that saying they are getting raped seems to be the only way they can cry out for help. then the cops would investigate WHY these kids are constantly crying rape, and when they get their answer, they'll come knocking with a swat team and social services.


technically, these kids ARE getting raped on a daily basis, though not by the legal definition. they are getting raped mentally and emotionally.  they are being raped and robbed of all independant thought and resemblance to a normal childhood they could have had.

[TheWho]

what if you told the physician or whoever it is who does the routine physical that you were raped by the staffer who did the strip search (even if isn't true) - they'd be a mandatory reporter - once the cops are there you could make stuff up (or tell true stories) about your parents abusing you and by law they'd hafta investigate - could that stall the placement?

I wouldn’t encourage kids doing this anymore than they presently are.  This is already a big problem at some of these schools.  Kids that do this are doing a huge disservice to the kids who have been raped or are really sick.  Each time there is a false report or false alarm the response time gets slower and slower and the reports less and less credible, its just human nature.  Imagine if every child in your local high school claimed they were being abused by a particular teacher and it turns out that each time it is because they want to get out of doing their homework or detention.  After a handful of these reports turning up false if a child was abused they would have a hard time getting someone to believe them.

Who, what do you mean by "anymore than they presently are"?  Are you trying to justify kids getting abused and dying in these shitpits that you love so much.

No, I was saying “Lets not encourage this any furtherâ€

[TheWho]

shutup the who. must i say it again? your an idiot. just like johnny ringo, you try to make it seem like you know what you're talking about but 99% of the time you dont have the slightest clue, and further make yourself sound like and idiot.

the boy who cried wolf story doesnt apply here.


if every kid started claiming they were getting raped at the strip searches, regardless of weather or not they are truly being raped, just feel like they are, or have a grudge, it would hint to the cops that there really IS something going on, and that saying they are getting raped seems to be the only way they can cry out for help. then the cops would investigate WHY these kids are constantly crying rape, and when they get their answer, they'll come knocking with a swat team and social services.


technically, these kids ARE getting raped on a daily basis, though not by the legal definition. they are getting raped mentally and emotionally.  they are being raped and robbed of all independant thought and resemblance to a normal childhood they could have had.

Actual call (a year from now):

Bimbelly police:  Car 992, we have another reported rape up at TBS, can you handle it?

Car992:  Wow, 3rd one today, horny bunch up on the hill there aren’t they?  Yea, I am in the middle of break, but I can swing over.  Need any donuts back at the station?

Bimbelly police:  All set thanks,  god help the kid that really does get raped or sexually assaulted up there.  They will never get justice, no one will ever believe the poor kid.

Car992:  Yeah it’s a shame, these kids don’t realize the danger they are putting themselves in with these stories.  Black coffee good?

Bimbelly police:  Black is good, maybe a donut if you are getting one for yourself.  Leave TBS some of the blank forms so they can start the paperwork themselves before we send someone out, maybe we can start batching some of these trips on intake days.

Car992:  That’s a 10-4

[TheWho]

what if someone just flat-out refused the strip-search and physical at intake?

Good question, the places that I am familiar with and thru people I have spoken with the children are allowed to wait it out until they feel more comfortable or an alternative solution is proposed.
The children are never forced to take their clothes off or taken off by force.  Does anyone know if programs still exist that do this?

[Anonymous]

Yeah. They're run by Aspen Education Group.

People TheWho thinks he's fooling: 10^3

People TheWho is actually fooling: 10^0 (Himself.)

[Che Gookin]

Making a false report only works if the youth is examined by a doctor upon intake. More often than not the youth already has had some sort of examination by their own general practicioner prior to entering the programme. However, manditory reporters must, by state law, report these incidents to the the appropriate authorities.

How long this would delay an intake is debateable. Typically what happens is the staff is sent home with pay while the incident is investigated. They youth's intake into the program would not likely be halted.

I've witnessed two examples of the police coming to investigate a report on the Florida State Abuse hotline. Both examples ended with the investigator asking a few questions and then telling the boy involved that he should cooperate more with the programme.

Another incident reported by a PV captive indicated that the state investigator , who came twice on the prompting of the young lady's parents, didn't seem to believe the veracity of her claims of abuse.

Clearly the odds are stacked against the youth when using this forum of delaying tactic.

I strongly suggest just laying down on the sidewalk and refusing to move as soon as the escorts come for you. Keep on refusing every step of the way. At the programme refuse to get out of the car. Refuse to comply with any part of the programme.. keep on refusing. The sooner you do it, while your anger against your parents minimizes the risk of the programme using them to manipulate you, the better.

Refusals, in my experience, are the most difficult thing a programme can face. I mean you really can't justify a restraint on a kid refusing to move. Just becareful not to act out in anyway by using violent actions or language.

[hanzomon4]

what if someone just flat-out refused the strip-search and physical at intake?

Good question, the places that I am familiar with and thru people I have spoken with the children are allowed to wait it out until they feel more comfortable or an alternative solution is proposed.
The children are never forced to take their clothes off or taken off by force.  Does anyone know if programs still exist that do this?

Dude, do you not read what people post on this site? The answer is yes they still exist.

[TheWho]

what if someone just flat-out refused the strip-search and physical at intake?

Good question, the places that I am familiar with and thru people I have spoken with the children are allowed to wait it out until they feel more comfortable or an alternative solution is proposed.
The children are never forced to take their clothes off or taken off by force.  Does anyone know if programs still exist that do this?

Dude, do you not read what people post on this site? The answer is yes they still exist.

Hanzo, it is not always clear, sometimes we may be discussing procedures and stripe searches only to find out the places have closed or the person is talking about their experience 10 -30 years ago.  So it is actually unclear to me if there are TBS's (today) which will force a child to the floor..... restrain them and tear their clothes off and submit them to a cavity check.  I guess you are right, all kinds of places exist but I think we need to identify which ones so that we can pass this information on to the parents.  Some parents may not want this for their kids.

[Anonymous]

at the program i was at if you decided to refuse to move, theyd wrap you up really tight in a really thick, itchy dirty blanket, and just leave you there till you just cant stand it anymore. the longest i've seen anyone last in it was about 4 hours, then they started freaking out.

another technique they'd use is group punishment, particularly on restrictions or in wilderness. if one person on restriction refused, the entire group would have to do p.t untill that person changed their mind. when all your buddies are doing hundreds of pushups, and youre just sitting there, and the reason there doing pushups is because you're just sitting there, the whole group starts getting pissed at you, and you start feeling guilty. if the guilt doesnt get to you, the soapbarsocks will later that night. it puts the kid in quite a predicament, and almost always the kid joins in on the pushups nearly right away.

in wilderness, we had a kid refuse. we were in the middle of nowhere, it was nearly 4:00 and were about 3 miles away from the camp for the night; and this kid just sits down and refuses, starts crying "i wanna go home". the counselors said the group has to move as a whole, that no one can be left behind, and that we are camping at the predetermined site no matter what. the school has a "no night hike" policy, and it was pouring rain. the counselors said that unless we get the kid to move ourselves, we'd be sleeping on the trail in ponchos. (for those of you not in the know, you know those old school really big vietnam-era rain ponchos? you can make a little one person shelter out of them. but they suck - they dont have a bottom, they leak, and you have to sleep curled up, sitting up, or leaning against a tree and if you move the slightest bit you can knock the whole thing down). so given the situation, the group harrased the shit out of the kid, one nice person decided to carry the kids bag, and he started moving. there wasnt a single complaint out of him the rest of the trip.

[Anonymous]

Guest, what program was this? And when did these abuses happen?

[Anonymous]

Hanzo, it is not always clear, sometimes we may be discussing procedures and stripe searches only to find out the places have closed or the person is talking about their experience 10 -30 years ago.  So it is actually unclear to me if there are TBS's (today) which will force a child to the floor..... restrain them and tear their clothes off and submit them to a cavity check.  I guess you are right, all kinds of places exist but I think we need to identify which ones so that we can pass this information on to the parents.  Some parents may not want this for their kids.

yes, many places they talk about did close down 10-30 years ago. but what does that have to do with places which strip search now? your logic a tragically flawed. nearly every wilderness and tbs strip searches, still. i thought it was common knowledge. there are only a handfull of schools in the industry that dont, (correct me if i'm wrong) hyde, king george and most of the "step-down"/"emotional growth" schools dont stripsearch. i know even the outwardbound "troubled teen" division performs of search of sorts, but with underwear still on. it's all a matter of how the stripsearch is performed. i dont think there's many places where they still stick a finger in your butt and use a flashlight to look inside, but nearly all TBS's and lockdowns still stripsearch. hidden lake academy's procedure is as follows:

2 staff take you into a room alone. they maintain a distance of at the closest 2 feet at all times.  first you take off your shoes, and socks, they take them apart and inspect them. then goes the shirt, they inspect the seams and pockets, then you have to hold your arms over your head and do a 360. they give back your shirt, and you put it back on. then you take off your pants, and they look through the pockets, seams, etc, and then take off the underwear. the staff look away, you cup your balls, and squat n cough. the staff figures if theres anything up there it'll fall on the floor with a proper cough. then staff leave and you put you clothes back on.  [/quote]

[Deborah]

And, as cited in the Complaint, Hidden Lake Academy didn't inform parents that they were conducting strip searches. If it's not on the website, if it's not in the parent manuals, how are parents to know which programs do and which don't?

[Anonymous]

what would they do if someone refused to take their underpants off?

[Anonymous]

Guest, what program was this? And when did these abuses happen?

hidden lake academy, and ridge creek respectively, between '01 and 04'.
i only saw the blanket empoyed once with my own eyes, when it took 4 hours. but i've heard about it being used many, many times, usually happens around christmas break when i was never around, though they seemed to use it less in the later years. the kids who stay on campus tend to get pretty depressed and 1-2 kids usually decide to refuse to get out of bed at some point.

group punishment was not always employed, there actually existed a policy against that, but certain staff were big fans of it and still used it constantly, particularly rob hyde and klee hall. if the kid continued to refuse or flip out, there were a number of other options. Chynaa M*****ler, the queen of flipping out and refusing, spent many a weekends sitting all alone in the hot sun in the middle of the basketball court, right by the overflowing sewer, with her food delivered to her 3x a day; with a staff member comfortably watching her every move from the lodge at the top of the hill.

Lee parham, master manipulator, would often be the person to come and see you if you refused. the man was a master at mind tricks and messing with kid's heads. very few kids were able to resist his tactics.