idea, inspired by over the gw. the grassroots effort thread.

[Che Gookin]

start a board just for kids potentially going, through which they can get in touch with their local fornits chapter. all messages by kids looking for help will be edited to be annon and must not include personal info, then once contact is established talk can resume though PM's. this way if the kid is escaping maybe if at least he can make his way to a computer, he can find help. also maybe get a hotline, easy to remember number like 1800-FORNITS (it actually works! 7 digits!), where if kids escape they call and leave a message, where they are and how to find them. the message can be relayed to the local chapter, which will help find the means to find him/her.

careful there, aiding and abetting...

And who gives a damn? Laws are meant to be broken. However, the only problem with a public number would be that it is awfully exposed to investigative scrutiny.

[Anonymous]

From my own experience I don't think it's a lack of work ethic keeping them from leaving in most cases, from what I saw at least. Shit , we sat around dreaming about what we'd do when we got out. We spent a lot of time drooling over brochures to city college, recording engineer school, or even the army and coast guard brochures. It's a hell of a lot more fun than a wharehousin' and a brainwashin'. We had plans, yo , big plans. The problem is they sabotage you. Think what a group of adults with full control can do to a group of young, naive youth. They can fuck with them left and right. They can have them believing the fucking Earth is flat after enough time. But work ethic? Hell if the program actually DID anything it makes you willing to work your ass off for some freedom. I think that statement might be true for some spoiled rich kids living at home with their daddy-bought SUV or whatever, but most of the kids reaching 18 (the only one's this would be applicable to) were pretty determined to do something with themselves. So what kept them from leaving? Watch the WWASP documentary and you get a first hand view. That girl who turned 18 in Tranquility - Shithole  Fucking - Bay , did not leave why? Because she was saying she didn't want to work McDonalds? (as if that is a concern after being forced to wipe dirty toilets with your hands and sleep on piss and throw up stained floors for days on end with limited food and water) McDonalds is a step up! A fucking country club existence compared to the SHIT these kids are wading in RIGHT NOW. So back to what's keeping them. Well who saw the wwasp documentary? I think they know the answer. The sad fucking irony of the matter is the kids who love their family are the ones who get worked over the worst. If you hate your family before getting sent away, or you come from a fucked up broken family or abusive parents you aren't going to roll over rover just to get a phone call home. This cannot be simplified down to the cliche, and untrue assumption that "today's youth are lazy". That fucking shit has been slung by evcery generation since jezus probably. What keeps the kids there is fear. Do people realize what they tell kids turning 18? They tell you your family will never talk to you again. You get maybe twenty bucks if youre lucky. They threaten you with everything under the sun. They fuck with you as much as they possibly can to see if you will break. If you don't they convince your family that it's a good idea to let you go die on the streets or sell your body to pay for food or maybe a high to numb the feeling of just being dumped from your whole previous life because of what? ditching school? smoking pot? It's fucking ridiculous. The blame cannot be put on the kids, they are worked over from day one. This is a conspiracy against them perpetrated by their family and programs. The kids are the bravest motherfuckers i've ever met. You want to see courage. Go to a program and interview the kid sitting in isolation right now and ask them why they are there. Come on Gook you can't be slinging this kind of bullshit around!  :x   Remember that scene from the wwasp documentary? That shit says it all a hell of a lot better than these letters I strung together hastily do. Anyways I still like you but man you sound like an 80 year old grandpa yelling at kids to get off his lawn or something .  :rofl:

[Che Gookin]

You missed my point completely.. I'm not doubting anyones work ethics.. I'm pointing out that the sort of jobs they would have to do isn't likely to provide anyone with much of a lifestyle. How long would a kid be willing to live that sort of lifestyle would depend solely on their attitude.

Talk with ginger about the sort of gigs she worked when she bailed on Straight. It is doable just damn hard.

I have absolutely no doubt that if a kid could escape they would probably do what it takes to stay free and clear. That however is a full time job in itself for a minor.

[TheWho]

I don’t know if the working at McDonalds will be the big issue.  The challenge will be keeping the 16 year old girl or boy away from the easy money or the lure to prostitution or dealing after trying to live off of fast food wages for a few months and missing the clothes and highschool lifestyle.  The kids will need a safe place to live and thrive if they are hiding or driven underground and be protected.  Many of these kids are not street wise and at age 16 they are all impressionable…it’s a big responsibility….

[Anonymous]

I thought you were talking about a 18 year leaving since you talked about getting jobs. A minor who runs cannot have naive dreams about setting up a legitimate life since they are unemployable (ID SS WORK PERMIT) and will undoubtedly draw police attention to themselves walking around aimlessly or hitchhiking. Minors, in my opinion, have only one option if they run. To get back home safely as possible and get in contact with their friends and stay with them, and raid their own house for their stuff including their ID. From that point they could negotiate with their parents if they so chose to from a secure location that is safe. Otherwise they are going to end where kids who run away end up which is just squatting together on the street and doing stuff nobody should have to do to survive. I would not suggest a kid underage run because the entire world at this point is against them. If the kid is in a "lighter" program or whatever you call them that people seem to think exist out there, there are probably easier ways to get sent home. I would exhaust all my other tools to get out and consider running the last option. But if you are being physically, sexually or psychologically abused you can't blame a kid for running.

[Che Gookin]

I thought you were talking about a 18 year leaving since you talked about getting jobs. A minor who runs cannot have naive dreams about setting up a legitimate life since they are unemployable (ID SS WORK PERMIT) and will undoubtedly draw police attention to themselves walking around aimlessly or hitchhiking. Minors, in my opinion, have only one option if they run. To get back home safely as possible and get in contact with their friends and stay with them, and raid their own house for their stuff including their ID. From that point they could negotiate with their parents if they so chose to from a secure location that is safe. Otherwise they are going to end where kids who run away end up which is just squatting together on the street and doing stuff nobody should have to do to survive. I would not suggest a kid underage run because the entire world at this point is against them. If the kid is in a "lighter" program or whatever you call them that people seem to think exist out there, there are probably easier ways to get sent home. I would exhaust all my other tools to get out and consider running the last option. But if you are being physically, sexually or psychologically abused you can't blame a kid for running.

Good points made here..

But it is possible for younger kids to work under the table. Just requires knowledge of employers and some basic level ID.

The risks associated are extraordinary though.

[Anonymous]

Some kids also have the option of seeking out their family which might be near the program. If the kid explains to their other family members, who are not brainashed in program seminars, they might keep the child. We've seen that situation play out on forntis a few times before. I would say that is an ideal solution. Even more ideal if the family member goes and picks the kid up before they run and possibly get a lesson in humanity they might have better done without.

[Che Gookin]

What of the parents who liked the Kool Aid so much they ship their kids right back?

[Anonymous]

Sorry I meant to be more clear but I wasn't. I meant family who are not their immediate family and not involved in sending them away. Is it considered kidnapping if an Aunt or Uncle refuses to return a child or how about Grandparents? I know , in my case, nobody in my family other than one parent knew where I was. But I don't know any of my family. But if I did and they were spread out across America I might have lucked out and maybe a cousins house would be near me. That's kind of along the line I was thinking. A lot of parents ship their kid back. They have to wait until 18 which is unfortunate and try to keep their shit together. Some of the really sadistic parents realize they can extend it to 21 which is unthinkable yet they do it anyways. These are parents who 100% believe their child will DIE if they do not torture them. How fucked up an idea is that? It's almost as weird as parents who are proud of their children who become suicide bombers. I've seen videos of that on youtube. Technological progress doesn't seem to dampen the amount of weirdos in any given time I Think. We were sold lies, the crazy people still reign.

[Anonymous]

You missed my point completely.. I'm not doubting anyones work ethics.. I'm pointing out that the sort of jobs they would have to do isn't likely to provide anyone with much of a lifestyle. How long would a kid be willing to live that sort of lifestyle would depend solely on their attitude.

Talk with ginger about the sort of gigs she worked when she bailed on Straight. It is doable just damn hard.

I have absolutely no doubt that if a kid could escape they would probably do what it takes to stay free and clear. That however is a full time job in itself for a minor.

The funny thing is you assume that every kid who was sent to a program is normal enough to have work ethics and "do what it takes to stay free and clear." What about a kid who refuses to work a real job, whose only experience with making money is dealing drugs, or a kid who can't wait to get high day in and day out once he's out of there?

Some of these kids will get caught and sent back right away, no matter how hard some of you might try to help them make it on their own.

[Che Gookin]

I remember kids at Three Springs having their time extended until 19 and a half years old. One of the selling points of the facility was the judges willingness to grant the parents extended custody in the state of Alabama.

No matter which way you slice the bread their is no real ideal option for a run away given their relative could easily say, "come on over" and turn right around and call the parents.

[Anonymous]

Yes I agree the kid is pretty much screwed. Look above your post and that shows the typical foaming mouth negative assumption program parent that these kids are dealing with. I feel sorry for these kids having to return to a home where that is your only adult figure in your life. An adult who thinks you are a piece of shit drug dealer who is no good. That's why I respect program staff more than the parents who sent their kids away. At least they were there. At least they fucking did something. Took the punches, took the shit and kept their head up and came back to work everyday. You can respect that. I find it hard to respect a parent who sends their child away, along with the negative assumptions displayed here. To a parent expressing these kinds of doubts in a child at that age is detrimental and they might actually be better off ina  boarding school than around a parent exuding such negativity. The conspiracy against the kids starts with the parents and they are colluding with the program owners and the intellectuals of the programs, the seminar heads, the therapists, the group leaders. Sometimes this is the owner or the owner's family. Some programs have little parent interaction when the parents are genuinely fooled. But this foaming-at-the-mouth parent strikes me as a fan of WWASP. A program where the parents can become intimately involved and rise up the hierarchy like the thought extinct Lifespring program. This is the kind of parent who can't just stop being a program fanatic after a year or two of fuckiing their own child over. They will continue to do it to hundreds of other people's kids because they become addicted to the power of judging others and inflicting their punishment. It is a powerful toxin these parents and program folks are ingesting. We just got a small glimpse into the mind of such darkness and negativity, a parent ready to spew their blood ridden bile on whomever crosses their negative assumptions about their own offspring. Let us pray for their children. If we pray for anything let it be them.

[Che Gookin]

I worked with a variety of kids. Some had what it took to take care of themselves and some didn't. But I think pressure to survive can bring out the strengths in us more often than we think.  The only thing we can do is give them a chance. What they do with the chance is up to them.

That alone is 100 times more than what they will get from their program.

[Deborah]

yes, but it's not against the law in most places to put something in the mailbox, if they have a little slot. e.g it could arguably be illegal to actually open the mailbox in a manner in which you could access their mail, as in if they had a mailbox that was just the standard box with one door. but, if you have a mailbox with a flap on top drop stuff in, but need a key to get the mail out, then you can stick a flyer in it. if they have a mail slot on their front door, you can legally stick it in, although if you dont walk away immediatly you could be tresspassing. you can also slip it under peoples door's, jam it into a crack, or just leave it on their porch.

It is a federal offense to put anything in anyone's mailbox, no matter what style it is. If they catch you, you can be charged for the postage you cheated them out of, plus be fined.
Ever wonder why newspapers aren't put in mailboxes, or why you sometimes see a seperate tube for them? Because NO one can put anything in a mailbox other than a postal employee.
You could attach them to the door handle with a rubber band as solicitors do.

[Anonymous]

what if the kid went to a shelter like covenant house? would they turn them in?