Important Notice to All Readers

[JDavid]

The people who operate the plants now did not learn it in high school.  A few of them learned some of it in college.  5000 people could learn it just as fast as the original 500 did.  We send kids to government or corporate schools for 12 years to teach them nothing but a bunch of crap.  We could teach them this kind of stuff instead.  By the time they're 18, they'd know everything there is to know about the electrical plant.

I consider a wage slave as someone who must work for the only game in town with no oportunity to go into competitive business or choose another employer. This situation didn't exist before the New Deal.

The only game in town is money.  

They do not have the opportunity to go into competitive business because they must first aquire approval from rent regimes, and rent regimes know how to squeeze every last bit of profit from them if they do so.  

Choosing another employer is the same old shit, different day.  Rent stays the same (or increases, it never decreases), same goes for the mortgage.  The whole set of conditions which makes people "have" to find/choose an employer is authoritarian/capitalist/vertical in the first place.  To find/choose an employer is to serve the ruling class in any capitalist environment.  Restricting access to the means of survival is fascism, because it is forcing people to work for rulers.

Local decision making is practically anarchism, except the policies can be changed instantly by the majority.  Remove capitalism from the equation, and you disable corrupt motives.  Corrupt motives are why we have TONS of policies instead of a few simple ones.  Libertarians do not want to remove capitalism.

[JDavid]

I just wanted to type a little more for a second to say that anarcho-communism is just a bunch of flexible ideas which exist only as suggestions/possibilities for if the masses decide to abandon a market altogether, remove the market from the production of the means of survival, or if the market kills itself.  It's not a set of demands.  It's coming from people who are trying to put it together in case it happens.  An anarcho-communist is someone who is willing to give it a shot, but if markets are what it takes to sustain everything, let's try that, but it does not have to be a capitalist market.

We could keep everything on the market in an anarchist world and trade with funds much like we do now, but without government.  We could even hire "police" groups (and fund their academies) to uphold policies agreed upon by the neighbors in anarchy, and instantly fire them if they started enforcing extra policies.

I have a theory I will start a new thread with later which does support a market for everything, including the means of survival, but it is a non-bloated market.  Gimme a day or two and I'll put it up once I'm done with it and see if the hardcore anarcho-communists can punch any holes in it.


[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-24 04:01 ]

[METALGOD8]

JD? Computers? Is there a chance we won't have computers anymore in this society you are talking about? Like the Internet? and whatnot. Government supplies recycling companies with millions of obsolete computers every year, I'd hate to lose this business AGAIN!!!!! LOL,,please let me know, thanks.

MG8 :smokin:

[Froderik]

Man, the gov't could do a little MORE recycling if you ask me...(I know you didn't ask me, but since we're not in group anymore, I can just kinda 'butt in', LOL.) Working down at the SSA* in Baltimore allowed me to witness the archaic machinery that is still in use...granted there were some more up-to-date systems in there, but most of them should be on display in some kind of museum, or in landfills. Bill...I was just thinking the other night that YOU are the GRIM REAPER of computers. A processor's worst nightmare, if you will. God bless you though, father death, for ye are a necessary 'evil', LOL.

Will computers be a part of JDavid's new society? I should think so, seeing as he's a super-geek! But only time will tell...the clock's ticking...

*Social Security Administration

[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2003-05-24 08:23 ]

[Anonymous]

You seem to have thought this all through for some time now. I am not a socialist, but I'm not what some might call a "monopoly capitalist" either. Wal-Mart is a good example of monopoly capitalism I think in the way they do business, running mom and pop stores out of business, etc. I think that "free enterprise" and "capitalism" concepts have become something they weren't initially, which is to say, something else. So, what we have to day isn't the same thing (which you alluded to earlier). What we appear to have morphed into over the years is a greed system that breeds oppression and control and is "free" only in theory. The reality of poverty seems to be inescapable because money and power are controlled by the few. I don't think your idealism will work or even be tried in reality though unless the systems fail completely. My opinion. The "greed systems" of this world, I believe, are the result of our self-centered and "fallen" natures. The only way to rid ourselves of a greed system is to get people, individuals, to repent of greed, not an easy task. So, as long as people are greedy for too much, there will likely be oppression, and therefore poverty for the people. Do you see what I am saying? Put another way, offer someone ten bucks or a chance to listen to your social anarchy views, they will take the measly ten bucks. Why? Because America wants you to show her the money like Vanilla Ice.

Not that you don't make valid points though. Have you ever read "billions for bankers - debts for the people". My friend was telling me that (according to this book) individuals names are capitalized to represent a "taxable corporation" and corporations names are not capitalized as to represent a non taxable individual (!) so that they can support political parties with funding! You mentioned the corruption of banks and I thought maybe you'd enjoy this book. I need to borrow it and refamiliarize myself with it. Good night, dude, got to work in the AM unloading trucks for $8.50/hour and find a way to donate my plasma this weekend so my family can eat, it's pathetic indeed.

[Tampa survivor]

Uh, I see reference to the "everyone in congress, everyone represented premise"
The brilliance of a representative government with bicameral, offset term  elections is that it eliminates mob rule.
With majority rule, the civil rights movement would've died before it started.
Bill Clinton would've been wrongly thrown from office for personal dalliances.  Too bad the perjury did not stick: that would've been legit..
We would be subject to the mob.
All around the world, Amnesty International exposes the dangers of being in the minority view.
Ask a Sudanese christian.
How about a white Zimbabwian farmer.
Whole shitload of guilloteened Frenchman....
This could go on.  Popular rule has long been proven a very bad thing.  Unless you are in the MAJORITY of the moment.

[mithygato]

What does any of this have to do concerning survivors of Straight? ::