Author Topic: Important Notice to All Readers  (Read 9836 times)

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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2003, 06:45:00 PM »
Being poor means your penalty is going to be a lot more severe, relatively.  That's what the United States of Whatever is all about.  Jack boots for the poor and phenomenal privilege for the wealthy who are only wealthy because they climb all over the poor.  

Even your "innocent do no wrong" favorite actress is in this financial fascism racket, for example.  She takes $20 million per movie while hundreds of interns slave away 10 to 14 hours a day doing shit jobs on the set.  I know that has nothing to do with this.  I just wanted to say it.   :razz:


[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-19 15:59 ]
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2003, 09:21:00 PM »
Quote
Even your "innocent do no wrong" favorite actress is in this financial fascism racket, for example. She takes $20 million per movie while hundreds of interns slave away 10 to 14 hours a day doing shit jobs on the set. I know that has nothing to do with this. I just wanted to say it.
It does and does not have something to do with the last post. I'd say it's relevant enough. Capitalism is completely fucked, but what is the answer? Anarcho-communism you say? If only that were true/possible. It seems the world (people) are far from good...if there is a way to make gains by screwing someone else, too many people are willing to do that. It disgusts me, too!
 
Quote
Being poor means your penalty is going to be a lot more severe, relatively. That's what the United States of Whatever is all about. Jack boots for the poor and phenomenal privilege for the wealthy who are only wealthy because they climb all over the poor

Very well put, by the way. Let's start our own nation! Stockpile your weapons though, cuz you'll damn sure need 'em, LOL!
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Offline ehm

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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2003, 09:25:00 PM »
Quote

On 2003-05-19 15:45:00, JDavid wrote:

"Being poor means your penalty is going to be a lot more severe, relatively.  That's what the United States of Whatever is all about.  Jack boots for the poor and phenomenal privilege for the wealthy who are only wealthy because they climb all over the poor.  



Even your "innocent do no wrong" favorite actress is in this financial fascism racket, for example.  She takes $20 million per movie while hundreds of interns slave away 10 to 14 hours a day doing shit jobs on the set.  I know that has nothing to do with this.  I just wanted to say it.   :wstupid:   :wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:   :wstupid:  :wstupid: :nworthy:  No! Not Patricia!!! :roll:  :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2003, 11:57:00 AM »
JDavid, you sound like a Communist. The wealthy are "only wealthy because they climb all over the poor."??? Where'd you get that closed-minded opinion? I don't know what Country you're referring to but it isn't the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. To coin MG8, "Love it or leave it" Comrade. YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!! :flame:
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Offline METALGOD8

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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2003, 01:04:00 PM »
Quote

On 2003-05-21 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"JDavid, you sound like a Communist. The wealthy are "only wealthy because they climb all over the poor."??? Where'd you get that closed-minded opinion? I don't know what Country you're referring to but it isn't the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. To coin MG8, "Love it or leave it" Comrade. YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!! :smokin:  :???:
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2003, 01:38:00 PM »
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To coin MG8, "Love it or leave it" Comrade.

Allright, I'd better "fess up" before war breaks out, lol. I recall using this phrase in a post sometime recently onthis board. I forget the context I used it in. (I just did a search on that phrase to locate that post, but no cigar.) Oh well, whatever. Either it was tongue-in-cheek, or I was trying to make a point. I forget which. But as my above response to JDavid's post testifies, I think that he made a good point. Can we deny that there is at least some truth in the statement in question? No, not all rich people are undeserving scumbags, but there are some that most certainly ARE. And as JDavid stated, I don't think that he espouses communism as we know it, just his own idealistic brand of 'communism'. Whatever. Let's just face it, it's a fucked-up world...

BTW, No one has taken me up on my idea of starting another 'WACO'...

What could possibly go wrong?  :silly:  :skull:
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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2003, 03:26:00 PM »
You need to study capitalism and how it works in order to realize that it is true that people are only wealthy because they climb all over the poor.  That is how it is in the USA and the rest of the world.  That is capitalism.  Think on this comment and apply it to any vision of wealth you can imagine "In order for one person to be rich, many many others must be poor".  Here is another one: "If everyone had capital, there would be no use for the capitalist system".

Telling me to love it or leave it is apartheid mentality.  A person's political dissent should never be put before the corporations which rule the world, regardless of who is right or wrong.  Apartheid is extremely primitive and savage thinking.

You wave the flag; you waive your rights!  America is nothing to be in love with unless you love establishing supremacy at the expense of the third world (study the World Bank and the IMF), or if you love corporate rule over the working class.  Take a close look at the lobbyists our politicians are virtually employed by.  Study some eminent domain cases where the corporation squashes the majority of local neighbors and plunks a franchise down at the entrance to their subdivision.

Wage slavery or the threat of enforced poverty is not a choice; it is a threat.  There's nothing free about forcing people to aquire the means of survival from the wealthy.

Quote
On 2003-05-21 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"JDavid, you sound like a Communist. The wealthy are "only wealthy because they climb all over the poor."??? Where'd you get that closed-minded opinion? I don't know what Country you're referring to but it isn't the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. To coin MG8, "Love it or leave it" Comrade. YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!! :flame: "
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2003, 05:05:00 PM »
Ok, first, this is my country. I love it. I'm not going anywhere and neither are you. I wouldn't want you to, even though I disagree with you sometimes. That's just not what this country is all about.

You say:
"You need to study capitalism and how it works in order to realize that it is true that people are only wealthy because they climb all over the poor."

Well, I don't really see it that way. Under a real free market, wealthy people get that way by providing something that others are willing to pay for. In order to secure wealth and prosperity under a real free market, you have to guard your reputation jealously. Otherwise, someone else will come along who can do whatever it is you do but who doesn't piss off the neighbors, polute the drinking water or whatever. Real competition is that comprehensive.

What we've got going now is no free market. Under our current system, wealthy people get that way by lobbying government to pass legislation that favors their interests while preventing almost everyone from ever even entering into the market to compete with them. Could you build a better motorcycle than Suzuki? If you had the interest and knew a bunch of other people with similar interests, sure, I think you probably could. Could you ever get it past Ralph Nadar? Rots a ruck, Commrad!

You say:
"If everyone had capital, there would be no use for the capitalist system".


Yes, that's the goal. For as many people as possible to be as prosperous as possible. We had that once. America was the envy and wonder of the world because just about any unfortunate refugee could wash up on the beach and, by the end of his days, have built something worth passing on to his kids. And he could pretty well count on actually leaving his life's work to his kids because the law only came into play when someone tried to take it against his will. Voluntary exchange was left alone. Only taking by coercion was frowned upon. Now, it's sort of the other way around. Earning a buck is seen by a lot of people as an evil ulterior motive while taking through eminent domain, taxation, mandated spending, etc. is seen as good and nobel effort to help the (ever growing number of) less fortunates.

You say:
"You wave the flag; you waive your rights! America is nothing to be in love with unless you love establishing supremacy at the expense of the third world (study the World Bank and the IMF), or if you love corporate rule over the working class. Take a close look at the lobbyists our politicians are virtually employed by. Study some eminent domain cases where the corporation squashes the majority of local neighbors and plunks a franchise down at the entrance to their subdivision."

I think you and I are defining our terms a little differently. You're using the name America asif it were interchangable with the USFG. I don't think that it is.

You say:
"Wage slavery or the threat of enforced poverty is not a choice; it is a threat. There's nothing free about forcing people to aquire the means of survival from the wealthy."

Well, the only alternative that I know of to letting everyone to aquire the means of survival for themselves is to take it by force and then decide how to dole it out. The way I see it, I've had just about all the government help I can stand. If there's one message I would like to send to the next generation of politicians, it would be this; Please stop helping me! Laissez nous faire!


The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure.
-- Albert Einstein



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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2003, 06:00:00 PM »
You're still talking about the old days when capitalism was still a bearable life in the US (except for the North America natives, and later, the African slaves).  Plus, remember these oh so holy founding fathers didn't think women should have the right to vote.  1920 is when that changed, 144 years later.  What we have now IS the resulting progression of capitalism.  We can't just start it over, because it will progress to exactly the same thing or worse again no matter how many 1920 style band-aids are plastered all over it.


[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-21 15:11 ]
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Offline JDavid

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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2003, 06:17:00 PM »
This can be done in market socialism without a government.  We do not need heirarchical corporations to accomplish such things.  Co-ops can do it, and I bet they can do it much better without having to worry about the rent regimes and mortgage companies threatening to take away their survival.

We just need to remove the means of survival from the trading game is all it is.  Wealth and prosperity should be redefined to where you are free to play the trading game if you want, in order to collect an abundance of non-essentials, but never restrict people from the means of survival in order to force them to provide it for you.


Quote
Well, I don't really see it that way. Under a real free market, wealthy people get that way by providing something that others are willing to pay for. In order to secure wealth and prosperity under a real free market, you have to guard your reputation jealously. Otherwise, someone else will come along who can do whatever it is you do but who doesn't piss off the neighbors, polute the drinking water or whatever. Real competition is that comprehensive.




[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-21 15:29 ]
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Offline METALGOD8

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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2003, 10:03:00 PM »
Well, most of the rich people I know or deal with have gotten that way thru heredity and bullshitting people. It's the "well I have 10 million in the bank comin next year and well, you aint got shit, so tough for you, LOL..." Then they don't want to talk to you anymore because you don't have money like they do. It's some club or something you join when you shit cash, I guess. There's at least 8 or 9 of these people that I know of that EXPECT to get paid by the person performing services for them. For example, they have 100 pounds of trash that they will put in the dumpster, and pay for that, BUT BUT BUT, as soon as they see someone taking that trash out of that dumpster and sell it, they start yelling "PAY ME, PAY ME" LOL... Damn, is that greedy? Capitalist? I think it is bullshit. They were throwing it away right? They already make millions of dollars, and the guy taking the junk out of the dumpster is getting chicken feed, so what's up? This type thing happens in a lot of businesses.
  I think the glory days are over and pretty soon there will be some serious unrest in the country due to the imbalance of financial success.
JDAVID? You think there will be a use for computers in that society of yours? I am just curious as I recycle them and do not want to lose another past time.

MG8 :smokin:

ps: thanks Alex, I was wonderin what they were talkin about.
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Offline Tampa survivor

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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2003, 10:50:00 PM »
OH MI GOD GINGER,
people actually still think that way.  Arrgg...can you feel the vibration as Jefferson spins in his grave and Patrick Henry is crawling out of his.
Hey good ole TOTALLY DISPROVEN MR Marx is cheering from his corner of hell.
Little Example:
I ride a BMW motorcyle.  I guarentee that no co-op, hippie commune, or hobbyist engineers could put out ANYTHING close to this machine.  
BMW was paid $15,000 to build it, a bunch of highly paid german people got paid to build it for me after BMW built a huge factory with shareholder dollars.  After all is said and done, all benefit.  
Shareholders values go up and they pay TAXES on that capital gain.
Workers of various stripes got paid.  Sweetly paid at that.  German craftsman don't come cheaply.
And I ride a cool bike, it outrides any homegrown, or semi-professional heap I have ridden, and I feel that it was worth every penny.
Thousands of people every year agree and buy one too.
Have you ever found socialist products famous for ingenuity, design, style or performance....
Hmm, Ever heard of a French, Russian, Swedish or Cuban motorcycle.  Nope.  
okay, lets try FRENCH Cars....
Renault, Citreon, uh, Peugeot...
Opps, they fell apart, sucked, and nobody wanted them.
Hmm, frenchmen toiling in the vineyards so my hard working ass gets a bottle of good Burgundy.  I like that vision.

Oh, BTW, people who inherit money are more likely to be smart with money, and people who are raised around it may learn a lesson or two from whomever LEFT it to them.  Genetics DOES matter.  Education matters more.
I have a T-shirt from my Uncle Rick's company, very, very successful, thanks to his HARD WORK, good anticipation of the future of electronics back in 1975, and dedication from a team richly rewarded to make it happen.
The shirt says
"Success is just a matter of luck...
 ...ask any failure."
Bill
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2003, 11:02:00 PM »
How about some takes on healthcare? Should it be free? Would the quality suffer? Should anyone with serious health problems be given a free bus ticket to Canada?  :lol:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2003, 11:11:00 PM »
Bill, Harley's a damned good bike. And it's a solid symbol of something that can't happen in America today. Yesterday and, with a little luck, again tomorrow. But not today. Nadar wouldn't have it.

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
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Offline METALGOD8

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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2003, 11:50:00 PM »
Hi Bill, I ride a 1981 Kawasaki 440,  :smokin:
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