Important~ Re: the 14 yo. boy's death at Aspen's Youth Care

[Karass]

Then put him in a fucking hospital, not an adult kennel.


 :roll:

I did that, twice. After $48,000.00 and several weeks of observation, they gave him the boot and referred him to RTC. Which is my point. There truly is no help out there for extreme situations. Look past yours. When a parent runs out of options, what other option is there? My challenge still has not been answered.

Mom

And my challenge has still not been answered either. I have 3 wonderful kids that my wife and I love very much. One of them has suffered from mental illness since a young age, long before teenage behavior problems surfaced. We have spent way more than $48k trying to get him help. Sometimes he has wanted help and other times he has not.

Programs are not the answer, but it is often true that professional, qualified medical doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and meds are not the answer either. Sometimes there just is no good answer.

Now he is an adult, trying to make it on his own the best that he can. He is convinced -- and I am starting to be convinced -- that he will never be "ok" with himself or with the world. It sucks that there are no answers, and it sucks even more that there is so little community-based treatment or support that is worth a shit for people who just want to be as "ok" as they can be. It makes no difference what your age is -- teen, young adult or old geezer -- mental health care in the U.S. simply sucks ass, and that's all there is to it.

Desperate parents do stupid things sometimes. But even when they learn their mistakes and try to do smart things -- or nothing at all -- that doesn't necesarily make everything ok.

It's sad that some members of this community continue to beat up parents who really thought they were getting help for their kids, even though they were deceived and taken advantage of by charlatans.

It's even sadder when one of those parents has lost a child to this hideous industry and they get no sympathy whatsoever.

Blame the snake-oil salesman, not the sucker who buys the snake-oil.

[Oz girl]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Sometimes there are just no easy answers when a young person has problems that are numerous and difficult. It certainly appears that many put their children into programs for relatively frivolous reasons and this is bad enough. It is worse when a family is under real strain. I can see that anyone in this situation would want what looks like help and relief. But this is the tragedy.

The snake oil that they are really selling is that life is easy for all those "other" people and it can be for you to. This appeals to the lazy and self righteous but also to those who are isolated and in crisis. Everybody looses.

[exhausted]

Thank you. It is a serious community problem that is fueling the numbers of kids in RTC, and will continue to do so until these kids get earlier help. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them through the school system, which is exactly why I was denied services for my son. In home TBS services should be available for any family who needs them, even if they are white middle class families with autistic children. There is a huge hole in the system for these kids. fortunately parents of kids with autism learn to be really strong, they have to fight for every hour of services they get. Early diganosis and intervention would have helped my boy.

OMG ain't that the truth, yes those who have troubled kids in any way shape or form are the stronger ones - tose who never had to live with it really ought to before pointing the finger at the parents who are at a junction that leads them to nowhere.

I fought for years personally to get help, oh yes I got it in the end, now that my son is 14 next month, he has been diagosed with ADHD, Depression, cognitive behaviour disorder, slight low scale ebnd autism and many other problems! Al the ones I picked up on when he was 5 or 6 years old - would anyone listen to me? The mother? The expert on this person? No - they al knew best, I was just a drama queen mum, right o.......k so now what? Oh yer he's filled with Ritolin with NO back up therapy as there is no money to support that, social services were involved after a long hard battle to get someone to listen, that's short lived, they've decided to withdraw their 'support' for what it was worth after a few short months because they believe I am strong, I've coped all these years

BOLOCKS, I have not coped, I have let my children down because I did not know what to do! I didn't know what was wrong or how to help them, I have a little more insight nowadays but I stil don't cope well, I just cope better than I did.......where is the prevention for children who are getting out of control, where is the help? There is none, something bad has to happen first

Read the Jamie Bulger story and find out exactly what happens to children who need help, they only get it after they have killed or are in jail  :flame:

[exhausted]

Once again this thread has been taken over with arguments with The Who,
This thread is about a young boy who died from not getting medical treatment, and what are all of us going to do to help this Mom to get the program and its workers made accountable.
No offense to anyone, but lets get serious and try and give some information that can help.    :exclaim:
The Mom said something about sueing Utah, if it could be done, I am sure there are many who would be very happy to be included.
On Heal they have a petition to shut down Provo Canyon, after reading all the people who had been mistreated and are signing, I think that would be something in the way of showing how many survivors have not been, helped, and parents who have been manipulated through programs.
 :idea:

Good points.

Agreed.....Why don't all the kids and parents who have been sucked in, or appointed by the courts for children to be taken into abusive programs sue the government, for allowing them to practise in the 1st place, to allow the law to send them there and for compensation, let them in turn counter sue the county who can counter sue the program

[Anonymous]

It just doesn't work that way Exhausted, it's that simple.
In this particular case: it will be ruled medical negligence and charges will be filed - or, it won't.  Hopefully, there was a completely un-biased investigation which will reveal exactly what happened to this boy; and why he was not taken to the emergency room / hospital for treatment.

It matters not WHY this boy was enrolled into this program in the first place.
It appears that this child died because he was not taken to the hospital for emergency medical treatment; and it appears that he probably would be alive today, if he had been taken to the hospital.

Bashing this mother about a decision she made: enrolling her son in this program, helps nothing.

On-the-other-hand: the mother discussing every detail of her family's history, including her daughter, really does very little in holding this program accountable, either.

This issue seems to be that children are denied necessary medical attention in these facilities.  This is negligence!
Children in these facilities are viewed as "manipulative liars" and their health issues are ignored; and children suffer; and at times they die.
That is the issue, here.

[Anonymous]

Wandering Waygookin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Once again this thread has been taken over with arguments with The Who,
This thread is about a young boy who died from not getting medical treatment, and what are all of us going to do to help this Mom to get the program and its workers made accountable.
No offense to anyone, but lets get serious and try and give some information that can help.

This is positive thinking, and helpful to a Mom who is (like the kids who go into these programs) already hurting inside.........

The Mom said something about sueing Utah, if it could be done, I am sure there are many who would be very happy to be included.

I so wanted to sue the state of Utah.  My attorney said it couldn't be done.  I believe a Class Action Suit is just what needs to happen.

On Heal they have a petition to shut down Provo Canyon, after reading all the people who had been mistreated and are signing, I think that would be something in the way of showing how many survivors have not been, helped, and parents who have been manipulated through programs.

DHS Director of Licensing, Ken Stettler, informed me that Provo Canyon is where this industry originated.  Those who branched off from Provo Canyon are some of the key players.  Litchfield is ONE of them.

Agreed.....Why don't all the kids and parents who have been sucked in, or appointed by the courts for children to be taken into abusive programs sue the government, for allowing them to practise in the 1st place, to allow the law to send them there and for compensation, let them in turn counter sue the county who can counter sue the program

LOL..........
You guys are great!!
I'm sad  :cry: but glad that I'm not alone in this fight anymore.

P.S.
To the poster who appoligized to Pitbull Mom.  This was very BIG of you to do this.  I understand your anger all too well.  You have every right to be angry!  Abusive programs heap pain upon pain and only makes matters worse for the individual.

Catherine Sutton

[Anne Bonney]

P.S.
To the poster who appoligized to Pitbull Mom.  This was very BIG of you to do this.  I understand your anger all too well.  You have every right to be angry!  Abusive programs heap pain upon pain and only makes matters worse for the individual.

Catherine Sutton

Thanks.  I really did feel awful.  Maybe some of my anger towards my own parents came out there too.   We're all a little sick and tired of being told to get over it, especially when we're trying to prevent this kind of shit from happening.

I am so sorry for both of you.

[Anonymous]

It just doesn't work that way Exhausted, it's that simple.
In this particular case: it will be ruled medical negligence and charges will be filed - or, it won't.  Hopefully, there was a completely un-biased investigation which will reveal exactly what happened to this boy; and why he was not taken to the emergency room / hospital for treatment.

It matters not WHY this boy was enrolled into this program in the first place.
It appears that this child died because he was not taken to the hospital for emergency medical treatment; and it appears that he probably would be alive today, if he had been taken to the hospital.

Bashing this mother about a decision she made: enrolling her son in this program, helps nothing.

On-the-other-hand: the mother discussing every detail of her family's history, including her daughter, really does very little in holding this program accountable, either.

This issue seems to be that children are denied necessary medical attention in these facilities.  This is negligence!
Children in these facilities are viewed as "manipulative liars" and their health issues are ignored; and children suffer; and at times they die.
That is the issue, here.

So why can't the government be sued for allowing neglegent and profit making companies to run?

Just look at the bigger picture, it only takes one ground breaking big mo fo lawsuit to bust this thing wide open and the floodgates will be opened, parents all over will be suing and quite rightly get the results they want, its often how laws come about, these shitpits would be closed or end up government monitored for ever - governments hate egg on their face

Just one small voice ..............

[Anne Bonney]

It just doesn't work that way Exhausted, it's that simple.
In this particular case: it will be ruled medical negligence and charges will be filed - or, it won't.  Hopefully, there was a completely un-biased investigation which will reveal exactly what happened to this boy; and why he was not taken to the emergency room / hospital for treatment.

It matters not WHY this boy was enrolled into this program in the first place.
It appears that this child died because he was not taken to the hospital for emergency medical treatment; and it appears that he probably would be alive today, if he had been taken to the hospital.

Bashing this mother about a decision she made: enrolling her son in this program, helps nothing.

On-the-other-hand: the mother discussing every detail of her family's history, including her daughter, really does very little in holding this program accountable, either.

This issue seems to be that children are denied necessary medical attention in these facilities.  This is negligence!
Children in these facilities are viewed as "manipulative liars" and their health issues are ignored; and children suffer; and at times they die.
That is the issue, here.

So why can't the government be sued for allowing neglegent and profit making companies to run?

Just look at the bigger picture, it only takes one ground breaking big mo fo lawsuit to bust this thing wide open and the floodgates will be opened, parents all over will be suing and quite rightly get the results they want, its often how laws come about, these shitpits would be closed or end up government monitored for ever - governments hate egg on their face

Just one small voice ..............

Not really.  Miller Newton has been sued over and over again, losing every time.  He's got somewhere in the neighborhood of $20+ million in judgments against him.  He's now an antioch "priest" currently counseling teens.  Before that he just kept moving from state to state and changing the name from Straight to KIDS or Pathway or Growing Together or Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center or, well you get the picture.

Mel Sembler and the Lichfields are campaign finance chairs for Mitt Romney.  Sembler has the backing of the Bushes (Bush I named Straight one of his "thousand points of light").  They don;t give a shit.

[Pitbull Mom]

P.S.
To the poster who appoligized to Pitbull Mom.  This was very BIG of you to do this.  I understand your anger all too well.  You have every right to be angry!  Abusive programs heap pain upon pain and only makes matters worse for the individual.

Catherine Sutton

Thanks.  I really did feel awful.  Maybe some of my anger towards my own parents came out there too.   We're all a little sick and tired of being told to get over it, especially when we're trying to prevent this kind of shit from happening.

I am so sorry for both of you.

Thanks Anne and Cathy. I got really pissed off about the masturbating poster who was laughing at my son's death and jerking off. Really shameful behavior for a survivor, IF truly a survivor, more likely a troll, and I fell for it, and I'm sorry for offending any real survivors. I felt bad when I saw how it affected you Anne.  I know a little bit about the trauma you and others went through, and I should have been more senstive, and I am truly sorry for your horror. I grew up in an abusive, punitive home with criminally shameful punishments, and severe brainwashing,  all in the name of Jesus.  That experience has made me somewhat of a paranoid mom, and I thought I was actually suspicious and intelligent enough to find a good school placement for my son. Because I am always painfully aware that my childhood nightmare makes me second guess everything I do, I really thought I had done my due diligence in checking out Youth Care.  I read about deaths in teen programs, I chose a non WWASP school, a non-faith based facility, with an accredited educational component, and medical staff onsite, and what appears to be a legitamate therapy program. After my son's medical needs were ignored, i think not.  Whether it did or didn't is not the point. Whether I should have kept him home is not the point.   The point is to make every single program and every single person who works in them accountable for their actions. They advertise a treatment program, they take money;  they need to deliver on their promises, provide real treatment, and return all children home safely if they are going to run a business. Otherwise they need to be shut down.

I shared personal information about my son's case and his history here  (it's going to come out in court/media anyway) hoping to get some good contacts and information that will help me in my quest to try to make a difference where I can...get better mental health services in my community for other troubled kids, deter the increasing numbers of kids with out of home placements, and hold Utah and Aspen accountable for my son's death.  Aspen Education Group "schools" are exploding in numbers, and not providing what they promote. It's  a scary tangled web. I have gotten some really useful info from this forum and others, and gotten really focused on what I need to do. It has also helped me to start to work through my guilt, sadness and frustration about my son's very troubled short life, and get strong enough to take action. Like most parents, I provided a nurturing environment and loved my son for who he was. Sometimes it's just not enough. Parenting is not a cookie cutter job, which the angry teens on this site will discover, I know, I made that journey. I used to judge other parents, I thought all out of control children just on too much sugar. You can't lump every kid or situation into one pot. I am sincere in my belief that people CAN make a difference in this industry, provide better local mental health and family education serivces, and change the tide. But we all have to let go off the past and move forward in order to get anyone to pay attention. Paranoia, black and white thinking,  and masterbating jokesters looking for entertainment aren't going to get the job done. I just see  too much whining and self pity from some folks, and not enough action. Healing is out there for those who truly want it and are willing to work for it.

[Anonymous]

I just see too much whining and self pity from some folks, and not enough action. Healing is out there for those who truly want it and are willing to work for it.

I think you will be the spark the lights the fires to change.

This sad pathetic group of survivors needs a strong voice like yours to lead them.

[Anne Bonney]

Thanks Anne and Cathy. I got really pissed off about the masturbating poster who was laughing at my son's death and jerking off. Really shameful behavior for a survivor, IF truly a survivor, more likely a troll, and I fell for it, and I'm sorry for offending any real survivors. I felt bad when I saw how it affected you Anne.  I know a little bit about the trauma you and others went through, and I should have been more senstive, and I am truly sorry for your horror. I grew up in an abusive, punitive home with criminally shameful punishments, and severe brainwashing,  all in the name of Jesus.  That experience has made me somewhat of a paranoid mom, and I thought I was actually suspicious and intelligent enough to find a good school placement for my son. Because I am always painfully aware that my childhood nightmare makes me second guess everything I do, I really thought I had done my due diligence in checking out Youth Care.  I read about deaths in teen programs, I chose a non WWASP school, a non-faith based facility, with an accredited educational component, and medical staff onsite, and what appears to be a legitamate therapy program. After my son's medical needs were ignored, i think not.  Whether it did or didn't is not the point. Whether I should have kept him home is not the point.   The point is to make every single program and every single person who works in them accountable for their actions. They advertise a treatment program, they take money;  they need to deliver on their promises, provide real treatment, and return all children home safely if they are going to run a business. Otherwise they need to be shut down.

I shared personal information about my son's case and his history here  (it's going to come out in court/media anyway) hoping to get some good contacts and information that will help me in my quest to try to make a difference where I can...get better mental health services in my community for other troubled kids, deter the increasing numbers of kids with out of home placements, and hold Utah and Aspen accountable for my son's death.  Aspen Education Group "schools" are exploding in numbers, and not providing what they promote. It's  a scary tangled web. I have gotten some really useful info from this forum and others, and gotten really focused on what I need to do. It has also helped me to start to work through my guilt, sadness and frustration about my son's very troubled short life, and get strong enough to take action. Like most parents, I provided a nurturing environment and loved my son for who he was. Sometimes it's just not enough. Parenting is not a cookie cutter job, which the angry teens on this site will discover, I know, I made that journey. I used to judge other parents, I thought all out of control children just on too much sugar. You can't lump every kid or situation into one pot. I am sincere in my belief that people CAN make a difference in this industry, provide better local mental health and family education serivces, and change the tide. But we all have to let go off the past and move forward in order to get anyone to pay attention. Paranoia, black and white thinking,  and masterbating jokesters looking for entertainment aren't going to get the job done. I just see  too much whining and self pity from some folks, and not enough action. Healing is out there for those who truly want it and are willing to work for it.

Don't feel badly for me, please.  I'm fine.  I guess certain things really trigger me, well all of us.    

I'll be the first one to agree that Fornits isn't always the most cordial of sites (understatement, I know), but as you and many, many others have found, there is a boatload of relevant information here for those who are willing to look for it.  This is the only site where survivors are free to say whatever they want without retaliation.  We've never had that before.  A lot of times it comes out in some incredibly juvenile forms, but hey....we are what they made us, seriously.

I don't like a lot of the idiocy that gets posted here and I've gone my rounds with 'the children' trying to get them to at least tone things down a bit (because, let's face it.  Some of the shit that's posted has nothing to do with anger at programs.  It's the kiddies posting for shock value and attention), BUT......I would never want to give up the freedom of speech that we have here.  That means that yes, sometimes we're going to have to put up with moronic people (The Who) and posts.  The most offensive speech is the most important to protect.

Good luck PB Mom.  I wish I had some answers for you.

[Anne Bonney]

I just see too much whining and self pity from some folks, and not enough action. Healing is out there for those who truly want it and are willing to work for it.

I think you will be the spark the lights the fires to change.

This sad pathetic group of survivors needs a strong voice like yours to lead them.

And those are the very posts that bring out the best in us.


Fuck you, ya bagheaded moron.  Internet tough guy hiding behind a keyboard.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

...that wasn't sarcasm?

[Anne Bonney]

...that wasn't sarcasm?

If it was, my detector if obviously in need of repair.  Gettin' hard to tell around here lately with all the pro-program anons wandering about.

Apologies.

 ::dove::