Joe Gauld... on Education

[Surfer Mouse]

"My guess is you will not find a lawyer to touch it.  There would be tons of research required, years of discovery and trial and no money unless the plaintives prevail initially and on appeal.
IANAL

Wow. Such an quick , pessimistic, discouraging, disheartening assessment.  Interesting.

A $100 million class action lawsuit was filed against Academy at Ivy Ridge and WWASPS on July 25, 2006.

http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp#air

The link goes to a web page that has a link to the actual class action lawsuit if you are interested in seeing how one looks.
If there is $$ to be made . . . you can always find a lawyer!

 ::bangin::

[Anonymous]

"My guess is you will not find a lawyer to touch it.  There would be tons of research required, years of discovery and trial and no money unless the plaintives prevail initially and on appeal.
IANAL

Wow. Such an quick , pessimistic, discouraging, disheartening assessment.  Interesting.

A $100 million class action lawsuit was filed against Academy at Ivy Ridge and WWASPS on July 25, 2006.

http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp#air

The link goes to a web page that has a link to the actual class action lawsuit if you are interested in seeing how one looks.
If there is $$ to be made . . . you can always find a lawyer!

 ::bangin::

  I double dutch dare you to start a class action suit.

signed,
Joe and Mal Gauld

[Surfer Mouse]

Maybe we can discuss this face to face over a game of golf and dinner at the country club?

[Anonymous]

"My guess is you will not find a lawyer to touch it.  There would be tons of research required, years of discovery and trial and no money unless the plaintives prevail initially and on appeal.
IANAL

Wow. Such an quick , pessimistic, discouraging, disheartening assessment.  Interesting.

A $100 million class action lawsuit was filed against Academy at Ivy Ridge and WWASPS on July 25, 2006.

http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp#air

The link goes to a web page that has a link to the actual class action lawsuit if you are interested in seeing how one looks.
If there is $$ to be made . . . you can always find a lawyer!

 ::bangin::

   mares eat oats and kids eat oat
   and little lambs eat ivy
   A kid will eat ivy too
   wouldn't you?

it looks like my man Eliot did most of the leg work:

"In August 2005, the Attorney General of New York determined that Academy at Ivy Ridge was not a legitimate school and ordered its owners to stop issuing worthless diplomas."

Ivy is a slam dunk.  In Maine, most of the Senators have had their pictures taken with Joe and company.   Mitchell and Muskie passed resolutions saying that Joe's shit don't stink.  I don't think you can lay a glove on the man.  You won't come close.  No lawyer with hopes of having a serious career in the state will touch it. (triple dare you: class action in maine naming Joe. You can't do it, you don't have the Jam)

I am backing Eliot against Romney in '12

[Ursus]

Maybe someone could consult with some of these lawyers that have been involved with previous lawsuits against Hyde.  They might have some perspective to lend re. what one might -- strictly theoretically, of course -- be up against.

Anyone know any of these lawyers' names?

[Anonymous]

Maybe we can discuss this face to face over a game of golf and dinner at the country club?

  Are you picking up the tab?


Joe

[Surfer Mouse]

The merits of any law suite and particularly a more complicated and difficult class action law suite
are certainly open for debate and best commented upon by a lawyer. The law suite against  Academy at Ivy Ridge appears to involve some flagrant violations most prominent being awarding fake high school diplomas. The perception I question and challenge is that Hyde is immune to being sued because of their political connections or because of how they define what they are doing as c"haracter education" as opposed to "family/individual therapy".

Law suites have been filed in the past and settled out of court. Clearly there are lawyers in the state of Maine who  dare to undertake a law suite against Hyde.  I would be interested in knowing how may times law suites have been filed against Hyde and the outcome/resolution of these law suites and what the complaint was that formed the basis of the law suites.

If people can hold  MacDonald’s responsible over spilled hot coffee then it seems to me that Hyde School can be held responsible too.

 Hyde utilizes encounter group psychotherapy run by staff who have no counseling/mental health training or supervision. The type of group therapy work they use has been seen as  potentially dangerous when done by under qualified group leaders. Hyde does not use informed consent to explain to students & parents what they should really expect, nor does it respect issues of confidentiality when encouraging/coercing people to divulge sensitive, personal, traumatic issues. When some students react poorly to this approach they are asked to leave the school with out any appropriate referral to follow up professional services to deal with the negative aftermath which is tantamount to client abandonment.  Hyde has a history of not employing trained counselors or mental health professionals in spite of clearly being a school that takes in troubled youth with serious family issues, substance abuse issues, emotional difficulties, and some times previously diagnosed mental health issues. All in all the fundamental operations of Hyde School could be viewed as not following “reasonable and accepted standards of care”.

Of course Hyde School would say that this is all part of “Character Education” vs “Therapy”. Call it what you may but if no appropriate safeguards are not in place to address the potential for emotional trauma and suffering caused by these techniques then  Hyde School and individual staff responsible should be sued,  and sued repeatedly until things change.

[Anonymous]

The merits of any law suite and particularly a more complicated and difficult class action law suite
are certainly open for debate and best commented upon by a lawyer.

That's your opinion.  At this moment I have three lawyers working for me. all on civil matters. Asking a lawyer if you should engage in litigation, (when you are paying an hourly rate) is like asking a prostitute if you should have sex with her/him.  The merits of a suit just as the desirability of sex are best judged by the buyer.

The law suite against  Academy at Ivy Ridge appears to involve some flagrant violations most prominent being awarding fake high school diplomas.

The ground work for this suit were layed by the best run AG office in the history of the State of New York.  I predict Eliot will be president of the US

The perception I question and challenge is that Hyde is immune to being sued because of their political connections or because of how they define what they are doing as c"haracter education" as opposed to "family/individual therapy".

Hyde is not immune from suit.  Playing Lawyer is not hard.  I brought suit against a lawyer (IANAL) pro se and prevailed.  Go file a suit.   Really I would like to see some one do it, but unless you can get a lawyer take your case on spec (for an agreed % of the final take) you are looking at carrying at lest one lawyer and support staff for years.  Looked at lawyer fee's lately?  In either of the markets you would bring suit against Hyde you are looking at fees @~ 200 - 500 /hr.  Got cash?

Law suites have been filed in the past and settled out of court. Clearly there are lawyers in the state of Maine who  dare to undertake a law suite against Hyde.

Sure on a case by case basis, where the facts are not really contestable     .  To lay the foundation of a class action you would have to lay the ground work of those facts. 'Is hyde playing shrink without a license and has it caused harm"  there is a lot of work there.  Alot of interviews.  Most of the cases would have to be deposed in states other than Maine.  Travel expenses! Who is the class?  Clearly the families that feel hyde has done well are not harmed.  Who was harmed? Hey guess what? All the kids/parents that are going to be part of the class were screwed up before they got there.  You are not going to find that the Virgin Mary went to Hyde and was gang raped by Gaulds.  You are going to be in a very grey area.

If people can hold  MacDonald’s responsible over spilled hot coffee then it seems to me that Hyde School can be held responsible too.

This is the oft quote example to demonstrate that the tort system need to be reformed.  The piece you do not hear is MacDonalds had been warned that thier coffee was too hot by other people.   The facts were out there.  The temp of coffee is a pretty is pretty easy to quantify. Is suzy that was huffing spray paint and blowing guys befhnd the 7/11 for a bottle of Thunderbird before she went to hyde really more screwed up now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case

 

Hyde utilizes encounter group psychotherapy run by staff who have no counseling/mental health training or supervision. The type of group therapy work they use has been seen as  potentially dangerous when done by under qualified group leaders. Hyde does not use informed consent to explain to students & parents what they should really expect, nor does it respect issues of confidentiality when encouraging/coercing people to divulge sensitive, personal, traumatic issues. When some students react poorly to this approach they are asked to leave the school with out any appropriate referral to follow up professional services to deal with the negative aftermath which is tantamount to client abandonment.  Hyde has a history of not employing trained counselors or mental health professionals in spite of clearly being a school that takes in troubled youth with serious family issues, substance abuse issues, emotional difficulties, and some times previously diagnosed mental health issues. All in all the fundamental operations of Hyde School could be viewed as not following “reasonable and accepted standards of care”.

Of course Hyde School would say that this is all part of “Character Education” vs “Therapy”. Call it what you may but if no appropriate safeguards are not in place to address the potential for emotional trauma and suffering caused by these techniques then  Hyde School and individual staff responsible should be sued,  and sued repeatedly until things change.

I would not argue.  Now prove it, in court to a jury.

[Anonymous]

Just one more thing to add.  If you do this in the Dirigo State you will have to sully the reputation of an institution that folks like Ed Muskie , Mitchell have lent their credibility to.  It is not a career builder for a young aspiring lawyer. You will not get an established firm do this.

[Ursus]

Do you honestly think that Muskie, Mitchell et al have tied up all of their credibility with Hyde?  

There is indeed a critical mass of rumble necessary, a threshold that must be reached, and then I think you'll see people distance themselves, claiming "regrettable ignorance" and the indignities of being misled.

Taking a case on spec, i.e., contingency, usually runs about 30% or a third, depends...

Some attorneys chomp at the bit for cases that may end up being ground-breakers, or stand a good chance to be cited in subsequent (other) ones, i.e., setting legal precedent.

It's not always just the money; there's also the "fame," and let us not forget plain old wanting to do the right thing.  Believe it or not, that is why a substantial percentage of people usually go to law school in the first place.

[Ursus]

All the kids/parents that are going to be part of the class were screwed up before they got there. You are not going to find that the Virgin Mary went to Hyde and was gang raped by Gaulds. You are going to be in a very grey area.

I respectfully beg to differ.  What kind of "screwed up" are you talking about?  Are you saying that kids who went to Hyde because Hyde told their parents that they could cure their kids' low self-esteem are "screwed up?"  Yeah, I guess in some petty sense they are, but what happened to a lot of those kids made their situation even worse.  Or what about the kids who thought Hyde was a "normal" prep school, since Hyde markets itself according to who they're pitching to?  Those circumstances aside, I still don't think you can consider Hyde's responsibility to be any less in those cases where kids already had a checkered past, didn't have a good outcome at Hyde, and feel damaged as a result of their time at Hyde.

Mind you, we're not talking about whether a kid's delinquent behavior continued or not.  We're talking about sustained psychological damage as a result of inept, incompetent, and unlicensed therapists running amok with kids' self-identities.  I also find Surfer Mouse's use of the term "client abandonment" most apropos.

[Surfer Mouse]

How does Hyde School handle Federal special Education regulations
that are covered by the Americans with Disability Act?
Do students who had previous Special Education services and
Individualized Education Plans (IEP’s) in previous school placements get new
updated  ones at Hyde. Does the regional Special Education Director for Maine
monitor Hyde’s compliance  with Special Education regulations? Do Hyde parents
have the ability to attend and give input to the design and content of  their child’s
IEP? How does Hyde’s program function the way it does and still be in compliance with
Federal Special Education standards and the Americans with Disabilities Act?

[Anonymous]

All the kids/parents that are going to be part of the class were screwed up before they got there. You are not going to find that the Virgin Mary went to Hyde and was gang raped by Gaulds. You are going to be in a very grey area.

I respectfully beg to differ.  What kind of "screwed up?"  Are you saying that kids who went to Hyde because Hyde told their parents that they could cure their kids' low self-esteem are "screwed up?"  Yeah, I guess in some petty sense they are, but what happened to a lot of those kids made their situation even worse.  Or what about the kids who thought Hyde was a "normal" prep school, since Hyde markets itself according to who they're pitching to?  Those circumstances aside, I still don't think you can consider Hyde's responsibility to be any less in those cases where kids already have a checkered past, don't have a good outcome at Hyde, and feel damaged as a result.

Mind you, we're not talking about whether a kid's delinquent behavior continued or not.  We're talking about sustained psychological damage as a result of inept, incompetent, and unlicensed therapists running amok with kids' self-identities.  I also find Surfer Mouse's use of the term "client abandonment" most intriguing.

  Image you are on stand.  How would you differentiate your esteem issues from the damage done by Hyde?

[Anonymous]

Triggers.  Didn't have them before Hyde.  Have them ever since Hyde.  They get in the way of normal functioning in life.  Certain things I can not do, can not participate in...  I have learned that it's just not worth it.  Too much potential for self-destruction.
Emotional Paralysis.  I totally shut down when I'm face to face with verbal or physical aggression.  Cannot defend myself for the life of me.  Much easier to  defend others, however.  Obviously, circumstances are somewhat different on the forum.
Needless to say, I chose my friends very very very carefully.

[Anonymous]

Emotional Paralysis.  I totally shut down when I'm face to face with verbal or physical aggression.  Cannot defend myself for the life of me.  Much easier to  defend others, however.  Obviously, circumstances are somewhat different on the forum.
Needless to say, I chose my friends very very very carefully.

Is your temporary sense of helplessness in the face of aggression on account of a conscious allegiance to the aggressor? Do you feel that the aggressor is justified in his aggression? Is this the lesson of Hyde? Just trying to understand the connection between the problem and Hyde.