Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.

[Anonymous]

Caica Disclaimer:

This site if for informational purposes only; it is not for referrals to programs. We are not funded directly or indirectly by any treatment programs. © 2005, 2006, 2007[/color]

Excuse me, but referring parents to PURE is a referral, is it not?

And didn't IZZY also solicit a donation (by credit card) from this parent?

What's that all about?

[psy]

"While Isabelle would like to be able to help all families that turn to her, it is not always possible. Sometimes she is faced with a situation that calls for outside intervention, as mentioned above. During those times she turns to Sue for help.

And when Sue receives a call from a desperate parent and feels the issues could possibly be resolved at home she will suggest parents call Isabelle to see if coaching may help keep their families together.

Sue and Isabelle do not profit from each other, nor do they have any financial relationships. This is about parents helping parents and coming together for the common goal of helping families."

Source: http://isabellezehnder-suescheff.blogspot.com/

Do you see how the third paragraph is contradicted by the previous two?  She claims there is no financial relationship.  I suppose she could quibble about the definition of financial, but bi-directional referral shows a definate business relationship where there is mutual financial gain involved.  Essentially, parents are traded off as "products", holding, as customers, potential financial value.  Isabelle may pretend to be an advocate, but she also publicly acknowledges herself as "CEO" of her coaching service, "Positive Family Solutions."

Sue refers to Izzy's "coaching" business which is not free, during which (i hypothesize) she systematically will say "i'm sorry.. I really think it's too serious to be dealt with... I think your son/daughter needs treatment.. Here... let me recommend PURE... Sue can help you avoid getting caught in WWASP's trap"  Sue, then refers to programs that pay her for finder's fees (see WWASP vs PURE transcript for lots of goodies regarding sue's referrals).

that isn't even to mention the disclaimer on the blog, stating "Sue Scheff and Isabelle Zehnder believe in team work. They not only work with each other but they work with a group of other professionals who all share the same goals - to keep families together whenever possible and to help find safe alternatives when it is not possible."

Who are those other Professionals?

[Anonymous]

I may be wrong, but why does it appear that there have been additional posts added in between other posts that weren't there last night?  Could that be why your site was down for maintenance in the wee hours of this morning?

[Anonymous]

I Want My Cookies!
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21881


To Psy:  Very astute reasoning!  I just wonder why Izzy doesn't dump CAICA in favor of promoting her new alter-ego Positive Family Solutions?

Recently, I discoverd this website designed by Zehnder for the Rose Moore Show.  Note the many links and promos for CAICA and her coaching business, Positive Family Solutions.

IMO, this appears to be how Zehnder may operate:  She worms her way into the professional lives and personal accomplishments of others and attempts to morph into them or hitch her wagon to their rising star (e.g. Over the GW).  

Am I totally off base in my opinion?  Has anyone else noticed that Izzy seems to be a major "piggybacker"?  

http://www.therosemooreshow.com/1336.html

[psy]

I may be wrong, but why does it appear that there have been additional posts added in between other posts that weren't there last night?  Could that be why your site was down for maintenance in the wee hours of this morning?

First off, Fornits isn't "My site".  As for the reliability of the current hosting?  Yes, it leaves something to be desired.  However, I have these threads archived locally and don't see any changes.

[psy]

IMO, this appears to be how Zehnder may operate:  She worms her way into the professional lives and personal accomplishments of others and attempts to morph into them or hitch her wagon to their rising star (e.g. Over the GW).  

Am I totally off base in my opinion?  Has anyone else noticed that Izzy seems to be a major "piggybacker"?

You are totally on target.  Don't forget the Space Cookies.  Her "Over the GW" stunt is what made me decide to bump her to the top of my todo list.

[Anonymous]

I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.



I am confused!  Others are confused as well when visiting certain websites that seem to speak out of both sides of their mouths.  Especially when some of the so-called Child Advocates are on the one hand, shinning a negative light on WWASP, while on the other hand, they are referring parents to this unregulated industry, giving parents a false sense of security.

I am sickened by those who claim to care about children, who are in THEIR OPINION "out of control," as they continue to refer weak and desperate parents into this unregulated "industry" for a "FEE."

Dear GUEST

I was thrown into the Child Advocate Arena when my child died of PREVENTABLE causes.  I learned the hard way, "what to look for, and what to look out for" in this lucrative, out of control "industry."

What are your qualifications and expertise?  

Look up the word negligent.  It's plain and simple.  If something could have been done to prevent a tragedy, it is NO accident.

There is NO such thing as a SAFE PLACE in this "industry."  

Instead, I would have to say to a parent looking to this "industry" to help their child, DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?

I have had many conversations with DHS in Utah.  I know what their limitations are when they license these programs.  I can tell you, the laws are not set up to protect the children.  The providers have more rights.  

In my opinion...........the number of accidents, injuries, molestation and deaths speak for themselves.

Tired of repeating myself.............
Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc.
Catherine Sutton

[psy]

I just wonder why Izzy doesn't dump CAICA in favor of promoting her new alter-ego Positive Family Solutions?

Hypothesis:  Izzy started PFS becuase CAICA wasn't making her enough money.  Now.  Sue has stated under oath that PURE is just, what she calls "parent's helping parents".  For example.  Sue and Marie Peart would often trade off parents and split the 10% program referral payment (tag-team style).

See PURE vs. WWASP transcript. Page 205, Line 18

She referred to Marie Peart as an "independant contractor".  She claims to have had many other parents working for her with a similar arrangement.  Now...  Problem there is that none of them would last long under any sort of scrutiny (especially after the PURE vs WWASP case) so they needed a third party to provide a clean face to their crooked operation.  As I've said, CAICA (Izzy) Is PR, providing a sort of legitimacy to PURE and acting as a shield against accusations.  In addition, when a desperate parent comes seeking advice on a program, she is more than willing to refer both directly (Sunrise) and indirectly (PURE) to program.  Since Sue splits profits with Marie when a parent "changes hands", if pattern follows, Izzy would be entitled to a cut as well.  Parents helping parents, who just happen to be getting money for specific flavors of help.  If she has kept up her old contacts, in theory, there should be a lot more parents running around collecting referrals to split with Sue.  "Parents helping parents"

Izzy might as well dump CAICA now that her front is getting demolished, but the question then remains: how will Sue maintain an air of legitimacy once CAICA is totaled.  I have no doubt Izzy is going to move, full time into "Positive Family Solutions" and she will take down CAICA screaming like a fat bitch about those mean mean people who just want to hurt the poor advocates of this world.  She would be a fool if she didn't fold... But she isn't exactly known to be as shrewd as Sue, or some of her other more intelligent sociopathic friends.

Of course all that is just hypothesis, however plausable, at this point... with what I am wiling to go public with

[Anonymous]

Catherine

I completely allign with what you say.  Those who said someone's preventable death is a "there are a no accidents statement" angers me.

My qualifications, making the same mistakes, and trying to learn from them.  Other than that, warning other parents and friends from making the same mistakes as I have, whenever I can.

What really sucks is, some of my friends are still pro-wwasp, and other's aren't, but they won't admit it within our group.  But I get to keep my eyes and ears open, while at the same time getting as much help as I could possibly get, because they all have some sort of assistance/experiences that can benefit me and my children.

It's been a difficult time, a tough road, not as tough as yours, and I am so sorry for your loss.  when I think about losing my children, or have nighmares about it, it is the most horrific thing I think I would ever have to go through, and frankly, I don't think I would make it through it.

While I am not an advocate, or so-called, or whatever, I do hope that by my stepping up I have made a difference and maybe saved some more lives.  It's cost me some friendships, however, if that's the case, they never where my friends, where they?  Or as some people would say, "I am not here to make friends".

My wish and prayers for you are to hopefully find comfort and peace, however that looks to you.

Hugs,

[Anonymous]

Catherine

I completely allign with what you say.  Those who said someone's preventable death is a "there are a no accidents statement" angers me.

My qualifications, making the same mistakes, and trying to learn from them.  Other than that, warning other parents and friends from making the same mistakes as I have, whenever I can.

What really sucks is, some of my friends are still pro-wwasp, and other's aren't, but they won't admit it within our group.  But I get to keep my eyes and ears open, while at the same time getting as much help as I could possibly get, because they all have some sort of assistance/experiences that can benefit me and my children.

It's been a difficult time, a tough road, not as tough as yours, and I am so sorry for your loss.  when I think about losing my children, or have nighmares about it, it is the most horrific thing I think I would ever have to go through, and frankly, I don't think I would make it through it.

While I am not an advocate, or so-called, or whatever, I do hope that by my stepping up I have made a difference and maybe saved some more lives.  It's cost me some friendships, however, if that's the case, they never where my friends, where they?  Or as some people would say, "I am not here to make friends".

My wish and prayers for you are to hopefully find comfort and peace, however that looks to you.

Hugs,

I certainly hope you don't count Izzy and Scheff among your friends considering they are aligned with Gayle Palmer DeGraff, the evil woman who is responsible for Michelle Sutton's death.

I also hope you are not the parent who put their kid in 5 programs, including 2 of WWASPS.

[psy]

I certainly hope you don't count Izzy and Scheff among your friends considering they are aligned with Gayle Palmer DeGraff, the evil woman who is responsible for Michelle Sutton's death.

See Pure vs WWASP transcript, page 171, Line 7 ... (yes, my copy is heavily annotated and i plan on publishing it soon.)

[Anonymous]

Izzy might as well dump CAICA now that her front is getting demolished, but the question then remains: how will Sue maintain an air of legitimacy once CAICA is totaled. I have no doubt Izzy is going to move, full time into "Positive Family Solutions" and she will take down CAICA screaming like a fat bitch about those mean mean people who just want to hurt the poor advocates of this world. She would be a fool if she didn't fold... But she isn't exactly known to be as shrewd as Sue, or some of her other more intelligent sociopathic friends.

Seems to me CAICA was always a one-man-show, even when Izzy claimed to have a board of directors and a co-founder named Kathy.

Personally, I suspect she's archived the website as a means of keeping it around because of all her blogs she links CAICA with.  Nobody else really links to CAICA, but PURE and Rose Moore, and a few misguided souls like Space Cookies and the NYRA.

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

Hello?  What about that CAICA fundraiser and the other ways one can "donate" to support Izzy and her important advocacy work?

 8-)

[Anonymous]

It appears that parents has had their share of problems, and to speculate as to why five programs would not be fair, although they do make an effort to explain why.  Frankly, I don't see any difference between putting your child in one program or five, the fact that you have to put your child in any program in the first place is terrible enough.  From their posts, it appears they were grasping at straws and being misinformed from all ends.  I can't tell you how many parents I know who were confused, and had their kids at more than one program for many different reasons, and it doesn't mean that they were all bad reasons.  Everyone's situation is different.

What I have learned is that these programs are not a one size fits all, they are not all safe, if any, and you still get the same kids back, sometimes.  I was recently told my child may have PDSD, which the therapist hasn't really diagnosed yet.  I can't change what has happened, I can only try to move forward.

[Anonymous]

Where can we find a copy of the transcripts?

See Pure vs WWASP transcript, page 171, Line 7 ... (yes, my copy is heavily annotated and i plan on publishing it soon.)