Getting ready for summer.

[Anonymous]

Guidance would be appreciated. Our son's school year ends May 18 and new year doesn't start til Sept 3. He doesn't have a job and doesn't follow our structure. He knows that he needs a job and real structure but fights the concept. Now he's lying and returning to using pot and alcohol. He has been diagnosed with depression and  listens to music that talks about suicide. He is a very dark kid.

He went through outpatient and inpatient already. We tried family therapy, even went vacationing together attempting and bond; failed. We really have tried everything. We don't have a cousin with a ranch, or even a friend with an out-of-state home. We don't have a secret bank account for any of these programs, either.

Our son will be 17 in 2 weeks, and I'm ready to let him know that he has to support himself fully if he doesn't comply. Any better suggestions?

[nimdA]

Stop trying to force your world view onto your kid. Just tell him he needs to find something to do for the summer that doesn't involve him laying around the house. He is 17.. let him figure out how to spend his time.

Listening to Dark music? So what.. I did that for the entire 1980's. I came out sorta ok.

Not liking structure? Well I wouldn't get to worried about it. I know plenty of folks who exist just find outside of the boundries of society's so called structure.

Look.. it is ok to be nervous, but remember.. your kid isn't the BORG. He hasn't or doesn't need to be assimilated. Just let him figure it out on his own. That doesn't mean boot him out the door either. But on the same token it doesn't mean you have to support his idleness either. If he wants money he can earn it. If he wants clothes he can buy them. If he wants anymore food than what you serve for three meals a day he can buy it himself. If he wants liposuction that isn't covered by your insurance plan he can figure that out also.

My aunt had a pretty decent system for teenage boys who were slackers. It worked pretty well for me.

1) She would serve us 3 meals a day and that was bloody well it. If we wanted more to eat we went and bought it.

2) She would provide so much money for clothing.. and if we wanted anything more than that.. Well get a job.

3) Car? LOLS.. better start saving sport.

4) New gadgets.. What are they? Half the crap I had when I was young was salvaged.

Basically my aunt met our basic needs anything beyond that we provided for ourselves.

Which was pretty fair.


The other part here is you need to start letting your son know that he is your son no matter what. Just smile at the kid now and again and let him know how much you love him, and for gods sake praise the boy.

Even us macho rough tough country boys like me need to be praised now and again. Makes us feel somewhat useful.

[Nihilanthic]

Guidance would be appreciated. Our son's school year ends May 18 and new year doesn't start til Sept 3. He doesn't have a job and doesn't follow our structure. He knows that he needs a job and real structure but fights the concept. Now he's lying and returning to using pot and alcohol. He has been diagnosed with depression and  listens to music that talks about suicide. He is a very dark kid.

He went through outpatient and inpatient already. We tried family therapy, even went vacationing together attempting and bond; failed. We really have tried everything. We don't have a cousin with a ranch, or even a friend with an out-of-state home. We don't have a secret bank account for any of these programs, either.

Our son will be 17 in 2 weeks, and I'm ready to let him know that he has to support himself fully if he doesn't comply. Any better suggestions?

Just MAYBE if you'd stop being so controlling he wouldn't be pissed off and rebellious?  :roll:

Liek, HELLLLOOOOOOOOOO?

[Anonymous]

NILES go back to trolling 4chans! Bastid!

[Nihilanthic]

Listening to weird music, being dark, and not liking your parents is hardly abnormal!

From the way it sounds, they're unlikeable for someone in his position!

Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.

[Anonymous]

Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.

Just assuming for a second that this isn't a troll, insulting the people who have the ultimate power in this situation isn't going to convince anybody.

As for the pot smoking, and the alcohol, that's about as dangerous as watching ghost rider.  Alright bad example, that movie sucked ass.  But the point remains that trying to control your children is only going to lead to more division and resistance.  At 17 most people are tired of waiting to become someone.  So they don't.

Having a separate identity doesn't malign any intentions that you have upon them, unless it's to overpower who they are because you want them to be someone else.  In the end, all you can really do is guide them; point out the consequences of their actions; and hope they make the best decision.  If you believe whole-heartedly in your convictions, explaining them to others is the only true way to convince someone.

In short, work on your communication.

[webdiva]

Listening to weird music, being dark, and not liking your parents is hardly abnormal!

From the way it sounds, they're unlikeable for someone in his position!

Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.

aint that the truth my dad is a giant PENISHEAD!

[Nihilanthic]

BTW...

Control and domination for the sake of control and domination over a teenager by thier parent is a bad idea, not a worthwhile goal, and worse than useless.

You should be teaching them to be self motivated, independant, and think and decide for themself. Controlling is hardly the best thing you can do, unless you want to make them REALLY rebellious so they zoom away from you when they can.

At any rate, I love how for many programs one of their GOALS is to make TEENAGERS obedient and "respectful of authority". WTF?

[webdiva]

BTW...

Control and domination for the sake of control and domination over a teenager by thier parent is a bad idea, not a worthwhile goal, and worse than useless.

You should be teaching them to be self motivated, independant, and think and decide for themself. Controlling is hardly the best thing you can do, unless you want to make them REALLY rebellious so they zoom away from you when they can.

At any rate, I love how for many programs one of their GOALS is to make TEENAGERS obedient and "respectful of authority". WTF?

the thing i find funny, well not funny is how parents somehow OWN children like property or slaves until they reach some magical age then then can kick them to the curb with the trash if they see fit. no one is owned and as hard as it may be people just have to learn to let people grow and if necessary let them go, in the long run that's much less damaging then trying to mold them into whatever you, as a parent, want them to be. like a parent really knows what their child was born into those world to become. puleeeze, they are as clueless as the kid if not moreso.

k just agreeing with you in a round about way. figured it was time bunbuns agreed with you again. LOL

[Nihilanthic]

The ownership/adversarial attitude I see towards the children of some adults I see is sickening...  :cry:

[webdiva]

The ownership/adversarial attitude I see towards the children of some adults I see is sickening...  :cry:

yep agreed... cuz you pop outta someone's womb you are property? where is this a law exactly! oh yeah in this country my bad! I forgot! or so they'd like us to believe.

[Anonymous]

I don't think nihil is a troll.  I recognize the anger.  I bet he is a victim.  He has a point.  

I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy.  Remember the things HE liked to do.  Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him.  Let him find that trust in you again.  He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him.  He could be an outcast at school.  Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle.  Do something together without judgement or expectation.  Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be.  That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer.  Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together.  It may tell you a lot about what is going on.  You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened.  Either way, you have your son now.  If  you send him to a program its a crap shoot.  There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive.  Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent.  Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children.  They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back.  You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go.  He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now.  When you get past some of the rough stuff.  Offer bits of advise on small routines.  Doing things 15 minutes at a time.  It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.  

Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.

Wishing you the best of all circumstances...

[Nihilanthic]

I don't think nihil is a troll.  I recognize the anger.  I bet he is a victim.  He has a point.  

I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy.  Remember the things HE liked to do.  Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him.  Let him find that trust in you again.  He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him.  He could be an outcast at school.  Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle.  Do something together without judgement or expectation.  Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be.  That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer.  Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together.  It may tell you a lot about what is going on.  You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened.  Either way, you have your son now.  If  you send him to a program its a crap shoot.  There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive.  Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent.  Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children.  They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back.  You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go.  He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now.  When you get past some of the rough stuff.  Offer bits of advise on small routines.  Doing things 15 minutes at a time.  It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.  

Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.

Wishing you the best of all circumstances...

I've been here since April 04 and I've done plenty... I ain't no troll.

I am tired of repeating the same shit to the same type of potential program parent and really wish they'd grow up already, but i guess I'm expecting too much from grown adults with teenage children.  :roll:

The vast majority of the kids in programs are messed up in the first place from mild negiligence, a few from outright abuse, and the ones with real problems who were accidentally put in programs are either the result of an edcon hoodwinking somene well meaning, or a sad case of darwinism on the part of an idiot parent who somehow can make an insane amount of money but has the common sense and research abilities of a roundworm.

I'm sorry for my vitriol, but I really do expect more from everyone. Either I'm that smart, or they're that dumb, and I don't think Im THAT damn smart!

[Anonymous]

Keep talking and keep educating people.  Your words may have diverted a second guessing parent out of the "market" for a program. Scream until someone listens you may save a life.

The problem is that parents with a teen .. who is just struggling with stucture and is smoking pot and drinking...  well.. that should pretty much describe nearly every 17 year old in this country.  In a few years he will be in college... beer bonging it.. and no one will think different of it. The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage.  If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different.  He is only harming himself.  Why slap him in a program for a do or die situation.  

Keep talking ..nih .. it is appreciated.

[Nihilanthic]

I made http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens, I've talked to parents with kids in programs to help get them out...

... my actions have by now steered many people away from programs and helped at least a handful directly get out that were already in them.

But, alas, its a drop in an ocean.

The PROBLEM is the average white american parent, and the symptom is messed up kids!